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Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





Knoxville, TN

Frazzled wrote:Pics or it didn't happen.

The website I was sent talks about Teddy Roosevelt as one of the great persons. Hey Teddy was a Republican President...


Yah, but he also ran as a progressive, which was a leftish party back then.
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

Frazzled wrote:Pics or it didn't happen.

The website I was sent talks about Teddy Roosevelt as one of the great persons. Hey Teddy was a Republican President...


Teddy Roosevelt was all about conservation though, that's pretty liberal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the republicans used to be the liberal party what with Lincoln and all that jazz.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/21 18:29:13


 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





Knoxville, TN

ShivanAngel wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Grignard wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:@OP, you're a liberal kid. We get it.


Not all political liberals are against gun ownership.

Name 2.


Two?

Name one!


The Black Panthers, Grace Slick, Phil Spector ( Ok, probably a bad example), the Viet Cong
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Respectfully, get real. You can't sight one of the pre-eminent party members of evil Republicans from a century ago as a liberal supporting the 2nd Amendment.

Wtrong party
Wrong time
He's kinda like really really dead.

If thats the best you have then my case is proven.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
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How crazy would you have to be to be a burglar in Texas? You take your life in your hands every time!


 
   
Made in us
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(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

Frazzled wrote:Respectfully, get real. You can't sight one of the pre-eminent party members of evil Republicans from a century ago as a liberal supporting the 2nd Amendment.

Wtrong party
Wrong time
He's kinda like really really dead.

If thats the best you have then my case is proven.


Samuel L Jackson.
My friend Will owns a chinese military ak47 (kind of a hunk of junk) and is quite liberal. Several other guns too.
One of my roomates from last semester was a liberal and owned several weapons for hunting.
One of my co workers from when I was selling TVs was a liberal and owned an automatic.
My friend Bill is a liberal (I think) and owns a pistol.

I think you're full of gak here fraz. You need more friends or something.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ketara wrote:How crazy would you have to be to be a burglar in Texas? You take your life in your hands every time!


Amazingly enough that doesn't exactly lower texas' crime.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/05/21 18:37:49


----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

ShumaGorath wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Respectfully, get real. You can't sight one of the pre-eminent party members of evil Republicans from a century ago as a liberal supporting the 2nd Amendment.

Wtrong party
Wrong time
He's kinda like really really dead.

If thats the best you have then my case is proven.


Samuel L Jackson.

Again pics or it didn't happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ketara wrote:How crazy would you have to be to be a burglar in Texas? You take your life in your hands every time!


Amazingly enough that doesn't exactly lower texas' crime.

Statement without proof.
Works for them.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

Again pics or it didn't happen.





Statement without proof.




At least you're not florida!

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2010/05/21 18:44:22


----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
Made in us
Hauptmann




Diligently behind a rifle...

Conservation isn't liberal, Ted Nugent believes in conservation (as do I). Enviromentalism is definitely liberal though.

Whoopi Goldberg is a liberal who owns firearms. Bruce Willis is conservative.


Teddy Roosevelt was a Progressive. Wrapped in a Republican sheet. He was a big government advocate.


As to the original topic of the thread. It's not a "love thing" it's something to have as an emergency resource. gak hits the fan, guns are what you need. If people want to debate the stats of bullets let them, it's practically the same as two Mini's gamers going on about the stats different models.

I wont judge the OP, YouTube is the last place to find any real pictrue of people. It's a rant factory. And since you (I am guessing here) were probably never around guns, the supposed fascination is a hard thing for you to comprehend. I don't fault that at all.

As to guns, I have 54 and I only want more.

As for Class III, it is a federal liscense. Every state falls under it's jurisdiction, and some states don't allow them at all (CA, NJ, CT and NY I believe) The liscense just allows you to legally purchase Class III weapons. Affording them is the hard part. When an MP5A5 costs $30,000, there are better uses for the cash.

The C&R list is updated every year and includes almost all WWII and older firearms. Anything older than 1898 is considered an antique and no paprerwrok is needed for them to be bought.


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In your base, ignoring your logic.

Frazzled wrote:Respectfully, get real. You can't sight one of the pre-eminent party members of evil Republicans from a century ago as a liberal supporting the 2nd Amendment.

Wtrong party
Wrong time
He's kinda like really really dead.

If thats the best you have then my case is proven.




This guy owns firearms.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas


The Black Panthers-teorrists don't count.
Grace Slick-who? proof?
Phil Spector- hahaha? He's literally nothing but a rubber band, now an unemployed rubber band
Viet Cong-Americans thank you very much (and again, combat units don't count)

Your absence of real people again proves my point.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
!!Goffik Rocker!!





(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

Frazzled wrote:

The Black Panthers-teorrists don't count.
Grace Slick-who? proof?
Phil Spector- hahaha? He's literally nothing but a rubber band, now an unemployed rubber band
Viet Cong-Americans thank you very much (and again, combat units don't count)

Your absence of real people again proves my point.


I updated my list with a few people I know in real life.

----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





Knoxville, TN

Frazzled wrote:
The Black Panthers-teorrists don't count.
Grace Slick-who? proof?
Phil Spector- hahaha? He's literally nothing but a rubber band, now an unemployed rubber band
Viet Cong-Americans thank you very much (and again, combat units don't count)

Your absence of real people again proves my point.


Well, Fraz, whats your definition of a liberal then?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/21 18:47:20


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

My god, its like beating a mule.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







Why do Americans *really* love guns?



Why the hell not?
   
Made in us
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Southeastern PA, USA

I dunno if you'd call them "liberals" or not (the word seems to change meaning a lot), but there are plenty of union guys, etc. who own guns and vote straight Dem. Don't act like all gun owners are conservatives.


To the OP: I think the picture is more complicated than you paint it.

Like with anything, there are Americans who are overly obsessive about guns.

However, many/most American gun owners see them as a tool for hunting, target shooting, etc., no more and no less.

Note that there are ALSO many Americans who are mystified by firearms. And I've usually found you can't even talk to them about the subject. To them guns are BAD-KILL-BOOM-SHOOT-MURDER-sticks and it's really difficult to get them past that to even hear your point of view.

And segueing back into my first point, I don't think it's only liberals who feel that way. IMO it's not as much of a liberal/conservative split on gun ownership as a city/country split. And while there are some political biases involved in there, it's NOT clearcut. There are certainly urban/suburban Republicans who would not want "one of those...things" in their house.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/21 18:50:35


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The Great State of Texas

Ted Nugent-he’s a screaming Republican (and a raving nutjob but that’s a side issue). In light of this lapse I have to question pretty much everything else you’ve noted on this topic. Now I am sure there really might be some avowed known liberals who demonstrably support the 2nd Amendment, but these examples prove my point.


Politics
Nugent's views translate to his politics. During a concert in 2007, while Barack Obama was campaigning for president, Nugent said to the audience "Obama, he’s a piece of gak. I told him to suck on my machine gun."[31] In the same interview, he said regarding Hillary Clinton ,"I was in NY and I said hey Hillary—you might want to ride one of these into the sunset you worthless bitch." In an interview with Royal Flush Magazine, Nugent was asked about his views of U.S. President Barack Obama, and he responded: "I think that Barack Hussein Obama should be put in jail. It is clear that Barack Hussein Obama is a communist. Mao Tse Tung lives and his name is Barack Hussein Obama. This country should be ashamed. I wanna throw up."
According to an interview in The Independent he "considers homosexuality morally wrong" and is an outspoken supporter of the Republican Party and the United States military. As a reward for entertaining U.S. troops in Iraq in 2004, he visited Saddam Hussein's war room. "It was a glorious moment. It looked like something out of Star Wars. I saw his gold toilet. I gak in his bidet."[32] Nugent also said: "Our failure has been not to Nagasaki them."[32]
At an Anaheim, California concert on August 21, 2007, Nugent's description of trips to New York and Chicago, and the conversations he purported to have with the senators are in keeping with his trademark views, as Nugent went on to describe similar incidents and invitations to "suck on his machine gun" with other prominent Democrats, such as Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein.[33][34]
Despite giving previous support for Republican candidates,[35] he thought John McCain "to be catering to a growing segment of soulless Americans who care less what they can do for their country, but whine louder and louder about what their country must do for them. That is both un-American and pathetic."[21]

http://www.answers.com/topic/ted-nugent#Politics
Whoopi Goldberg is a liberal who owns firearms.
-owns firearms doesn’t mean you support them an d don’t want to take them from everyone else. There’s plenty of limousine liberals who have them but don’t want others to have them. Again I need proof she even owns guns.



Teddy Roosevelt was a Progressive. Wrapped in a Republican sheet. He was a big government advocate.
-And a Republican
-And that’s 100 years ago. Really. This is all you got? I thought this would be difficult.



-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

Frazzled wrote:Pics or it didn't happen.

The website I was sent talks about Teddy Roosevelt as one of the great persons. Hey Teddy was a Republican President...




"I'm tired of these mutha F%^&*g conservative robots on this mutha f&*($g website!"

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




To the OP.

Guns are kind of ingrained into the American way of life (well, for those of us who value the 2nd Amendment) just as tea time is ingrained into the British way of life.

I would not use youtube as a reliable source of Americans feelings towards guns. Youtube is the place to put videos if you just want 5-15 minutes of fame (or infamy) so of course most of the dumb rednecks you see over-emphasize their love for guns.

I guess it's just me but I see nothing wrong with arguing ballistics or shooting technique. It's useful information to some people, just as 2 nerds arguing over what unit works best against a certain opponent is useful. It's good to sometimes get another point of view on ballistics when it comes to hunting. You might think the round you use is better but not everyone will agree with you and maybe the other person will convince you to try the round he/she uses or you might convince them that the one you use is better resulting in better hunting results for either party.

I guess I don't understand the entire "only aristocrats can hunt" policy in GB. I know I'm exaggerating for effect but from what I know it's near impossible for average citizens to hunt.

We don't need to bash the op for his reasons for believing what he does. But dude/dudette, seriously don't use Youtube as a source of info on gun feelings (at least avoid the Blooper vids). If you must judge based on youtube at least watch any of the hundreds of Charleton Heston videos or even check out the NRA website.

--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”


 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

Careful, those conservative robots are also conservative mods, albeit he is the only texan who would execute the people fighting in the alamo.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Frazzled wrote:Ted Nugent-he’s a screaming Republican (and a raving nutjob but that’s a side issue). In light of this lapse I have to question pretty much everything else you’ve noted on this topic. Now I am sure there really might be some avowed known liberals who demonstrably support the 2nd Amendment, but these examples prove my point.


Politics
Nugent's views translate to his politics. During a concert in 2007, while Barack Obama was campaigning for president, Nugent said to the audience "Obama, he’s a piece of gak. I told him to suck on my machine gun."[31] In the same interview, he said regarding Hillary Clinton ,"I was in NY and I said hey Hillary—you might want to ride one of these into the sunset you worthless bitch." In an interview with Royal Flush Magazine, Nugent was asked about his views of U.S. President Barack Obama, and he responded: "I think that Barack Hussein Obama should be put in jail. It is clear that Barack Hussein Obama is a communist. Mao Tse Tung lives and his name is Barack Hussein Obama. This country should be ashamed. I wanna throw up."
According to an interview in The Independent he "considers homosexuality morally wrong" and is an outspoken supporter of the Republican Party and the United States military. As a reward for entertaining U.S. troops in Iraq in 2004, he visited Saddam Hussein's war room. "It was a glorious moment. It looked like something out of Star Wars. I saw his gold toilet. I gak in his bidet."[32] Nugent also said: "Our failure has been not to Nagasaki them."[32]
At an Anaheim, California concert on August 21, 2007, Nugent's description of trips to New York and Chicago, and the conversations he purported to have with the senators are in keeping with his trademark views, as Nugent went on to describe similar incidents and invitations to "suck on his machine gun" with other prominent Democrats, such as Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein.[33][34]
Despite giving previous support for Republican candidates,[35] he thought John McCain "to be catering to a growing segment of soulless Americans who care less what they can do for their country, but whine louder and louder about what their country must do for them. That is both un-American and pathetic."[21]

http://www.answers.com/topic/ted-nugent#Politics
Whoopi Goldberg is a liberal who owns firearms.
-owns firearms doesn’t mean you support them an d don’t want to take them from everyone else. There’s plenty of limousine liberals who have them but don’t want others to have them. Again I need proof she even owns guns.



Teddy Roosevelt was a Progressive. Wrapped in a Republican sheet. He was a big government advocate.
-And a Republican
-And that’s 100 years ago. Really. This is all you got? I thought this would be difficult.




If this Nugent excerpt wasn't so large I'd sig it. I agree with those statements 100%.

--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

halonachos wrote:Careful, those conservative robots are also conservative mods, albeit he is the only texan who would execute the people fighting in the alamo.

They might surrender. Just think of it as pre-emptive morale stabilization.
(besides that place is reserved for Frazzled's Zombieolympics II: This Time Its Personal)


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/21 19:01:59


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

halonachos wrote:Careful, those conservative robots are also conservative mods, albeit he is the only texan who would execute the people fighting in the alamo.


Who's afraid of frazz? I've got the answer to him....


Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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The Great State of Texas

agnosto wrote:
halonachos wrote:Careful, those conservative robots are also conservative mods, albeit he is the only texan who would execute the people fighting in the alamo.


Who's afraid of frazz? I've got the answer to him....


Ztolen Zoink!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

I suspect that Frazz's definition of liberal includes a clause which amounts to: Does not support 2nd amendment rights. What this means for everyone else in this thread is that he's arguing from a tautology; something which cannot really be broken on the internet.

Gun politics, in terms of political action, fall pretty cleanly along Republican/Democrat lines. However, the are Republicans from major metropolitan areas that favor gun control, just as there are Democrats from suburban and rural areas who favor strong 2nd amendment rights. Let us not forget Rudy Giuliani, Richard Nixon, Chris Carney, John Murtha, or Tim Holden.

The issue is even less clear when considering the divide between liberals and conservatives; primarily because there is no clear definition of liberal, or conservative when dealing with American politics. The terms certainly bear no heed with respect to even their general, apolitical meanings. They're essentially brands for politicians, and those who wish to self-identify at this point.

And, for anyone that wants to repost significant evidence of Democrats supporting 2nd amendment rights for Fraz to see.

Source.

Source wrote:
Today in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, 65 Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives, led by Congressman Mike Ross (D-AR), expressed their opposition to the reinstatement of the failed 1994 ban on semi-automatic firearms and ammunition magazines. These congressmen cited numerous studies that proved the 1994 ban was ineffective, and they strongly urged Attorney General Holder to stop his effort and instead focus on the enforcement of existing gun laws.

NRA would like to thank Congressman Ross for his leadership on this effort. We will continue to work with Members of Congress from both parties on this important issue.



Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
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Fraz.. aren't you supposed to prevent topics from being dragged completely OT? Cause you seem to be the main cause here... :\
   
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Runnin up on ya.

Granted this information is a bit dated (2008); however you'll note that Texas isn't even close to the highest gun ownership in the nation.

http://old.swivel.com/graphs/show/26466731?limit_modifier=all&graph%5Blimit%5D=51&commit=%3E

This next chart will show you that gun ownership has little to no relation to the # of homicides.

http://www.swivel.com/charts/2545-Gun-ownership-to-Homocides

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Soladrin wrote:Fraz.. aren't you supposed to prevent topics from being dragged completely OT? Cause you seem to be the main cause here... :\

Wait, I am? Thats not what they pay me for. Ok they don't actually pay me. hey, wait a minute!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





In your base, ignoring your logic.

I think Fraz forgot he had the role, even though he's half robot, he's also half old man.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

halonachos wrote:I think Fraz forgot he had the role, even though he's half robot, he's also half old man.


Humanity is over rated. Chrome is the new black.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
 
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