Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

tetrisphreak wrote:I have the best solution - Play Malifaux. LOL

My solution has been flames of war. I've spent hundreds of dollars on hobby so far this year and exactly $0 has gone to GW.

My way of dealing with it is easy every time they anounce a price rise I cut on how much I'm going to spend on 40k.
Exemple: If I was going to have a 50$ budget in the next month for 40k and they announce a price hike of 10% on some products then that money becomes 45$, I'm kind of penalising myself because I shouldn't encourage their business model but I still do, at the same time I spend less money on their products so they sell less to me.

Cheese Elemental wrote:However, I simply can't afford it anymore. Even buying from Maelstrom is expensive now.

Wait what cheese? since when did you become so heretical!

So, the new solutions we got are the folowing:

1 Switch to a diffrent company/system.

2 Create a rouge black miniture market.

3 Go on a strike and stop buying GW stuff.

4 Get over it and do nothing.

Well out of all those solutions my favorite one is the creation of a black mini market as we already have the fundaments for it in form of Dakka Dakka swap shop.
- Viva la revolution

If anything, GW prices are going to rise again, as VAT is going to be increased from 17.5% to 19%, making GW products 2.5% more expensive.

Then again, it was only at 15% for a year when Brown was in charge.

A VAT increase so soon after the last on in January seems highly unlikely to me. I have heard absolutely nothing about that or even been advised of such by our accountants. This seems like adding fuel to the Drama to me! Shame on you NoShoes!

Why have GW rasied prices when their balance sheets seems so rosey? Price rises are in anticipation of cost going up. It is a poor business that reacts to change rather than plans for it. For example I have allocated a budget of a further 25% against steel increses to 2012 on my current projects in anticipation of rises in material costs.

Despite what allot of intawebz experts would have you believe GW seems to be relatively well run to me at the moment, the idea that you can have a company GW's size that flounders around as people suggest seems rather whimsicle to me. Having said this GWs Accounts indicate that the profit that they are making at the moment mostly comes from licensing and royalties. Such things are relatively fickle, being fixed term agreements and GW should be on an even keel in the event that they come to an end (unlikely as it is given DH & RT RPGS and DoW 2 success).

Finally unless I am mistaken GW have raised prices on approximately 200 items from their range hardly whole sale prices hikes. Personally I am buying what I want now rather than after June.

EDIT:// My bad, it was speculation.

MagickalMemories wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:I have the best solution - Play Malifaux. LOL

To be fair, I have over 70 Malifaux minis, the rulebook and 4 Fate decks, and I LOVE the game. I think VERY highly of Wyrd and the people running it.
So, I'm not just blowing smoke here.
Malifaux really isn't any cheaper than GW games. It is actually more expensive.
For example, your typical starter crew box is around $35 retail. That's for 4 - 6 minis!
With GW, a tactiacl box will get you 10 minis for around the same price.

Where you see your "savings" is that $100 will get you DEEP into Malifaux, with a hefty size force. With GW games, $100 will barely scratch the surface of your army.

To be fair Malifaux is a ton cheaper than GW. The reason for that. You only need those 4 to 6 models to play. While with GW you need around 40+ and at there prices well..... For example i`ve paid less than a hundred pounds to get the rulebook, fate deck and the whole Resurrectionist faction bar the crooked men (so far). If I went to GW and spent under a hundred quid i`d come out with well nothing really as you cant play a GW core game for less than £150 to £200 plus.

For those also saying wel quit the hobby what hobby.. Wargaming? GW don`t own the rights to it as some very narrow minded people seem to think. GW hobby is what that is but in no way is the WARGAMING hobby just GW. I quit GW as there is nothing good about it currently. I may come back to it but its not likely as there are a ton of far more interestong companies out there who produce good models, far, far better rules and acually know what customer value truly is.

As it stands there is no solution for GW at the minute nor are there solutions for there "fans". It`s a case of continue to pay stupid prices and play a poor game or leave play another game if you really do like the WAGAMES hobby and hope that GW pull there head out there ass before its too late for them.

I realize this game tends to be geared more for middle class and upper class people but as a lower class citizen this is really shooting themselves in the foot. I only buy from them when I've made enough through painting them so as the price goes up the amount of money I am able to spend on their products per quarter drops significantly. Price goes up 10% then it'll take 20% longer (Im in the hole atm) to get to purchasing that product. Less sales for you because I simply can't afford it. shelter > GW

Luco here has a point. GW are forcing more and more lower paid people out of this game. If you are in a low paying job or or on the sick etc you can`t afford to play GW games. That is a as harsh as this is like a hate crime. By forcing certain types of people out of there hobby. Yeah they should get a job or they should get a better paid one but its not always that easy.

If GW only want better paid people playing there game ie doctors they make a pretty penny but there not going to buy much as they id imagine are pretty busy.

The grassroot hobbyist is the lower earner as they have more time on there hands and are free to indulge in there hobby. Just they can`t by being priced out of it.

Even for me. My job pays well above most management positions yet I won`t pay GW what there asking as there is no value and because of there pricing no one I know plays GW games anymore and even if they did they`d do no more due to this increase.

I honestly think the forcing lower paid people out of the game is poor speculation. I currently live one £200-300 a month and a good some of that goes to bills. (3 bedroom house on a greenbelt with a awesome view btw and I'm the only bill payer in the house)

I and a lot of people I know in this situation are still very active in the game. Sure it means I need to save more for that thing I want, but being 'poor' as it is called makes me stick to the hobbies I have and spend money on to enjoy them even more.

But it is not all price increase. Last time I bought coldone knights they where £25 for 5, now its £13 and I will still not be bothered if they go up to £15.

How it effects someone is purely based on their own personality, not their income. A not well paid person will look to places like ebay, or in shop for people selling armies ect. It wont stop them from playing.

It may not have bee the best choice of words nor was it meant as if your poor you can`t play. It was more a thought. I wasnt speculating. As before it was just thoughts on what I hear from around my local area.

As for your last point about how it wont stop them playing well maybe in your area but other areas that is exactly what it is doing. It is forcing some people out the game. It not about personallity. Its about there income and what they percieve as value for money which is not GW in there eyes.

Its a case of lets agree to disagree. In the end what it comes down to is area where people live where those people that do play if they can even find an opponent which is the main reason i`m stopping as there is no one and we have a decnt GW store and what they think is value for money for them to decide what they buy and what they dont.

Motograter wrote: That is a as harsh as this is like a hate crime.

I know that this is the internet and that most GW players are hugely whiney people anyways, but seriously...

And yeah, if they increase the price, they will lower volume. You don't think that GW understands basic economics? The point is that the amount of market share they drive out is LESS than the extra revenue they pull in through sales, thus profits go UP even if there are FEWER people purchasing their product.

Of course, there is an equilibrium, as having the game be so expensive that only the five richest kings of europe can afford it is going to produce less profits due to volume even if the price per model is very, very high. The thing is, they haven't reached this equilibrium yet.

Does it mean that GW products may be games solely for the middle class? Yeah, and as a person who is not there a part of, it stinks. Why should I believe that GW should be forced to take me personally in mind when they price their products?

I forgot to factor in actually having an opponent into my thoughs.

That would be a strong determinant.
Although in the value thing I do have a friend who uses his GW models for D&D. WHich I suppose is a good way to squeeze some more use out of them.

Ailaros wrote:

Motograter wrote: That is a as harsh as this is like a hate crime.

I know that this is the internet and that most GW players are hugely whiney people anyways, but seriously...

I know it was a little or a lot of a harsh and very far fetched thing to say but it was all I could think of at the time.

You don't think that GW understands basic economics?
Em in all honesty..... No?

Does it mean that GW products may be games solely for the middle class? Yeah, and as a person who is not there a part of, it stinks. Why should I believe that GW should be forced to take me personally in mind when they price their products?

They shouldnt but what they should do is make it affordable to get into and stay into in the first place. They should realize that not everyone is in medicine or a footballer for instance. Hell even there staff are on low wages. Yeah they get discount but if you didn`t include that more than half of them probably couldn`t justify collecting.

Only thing I really hate is any product above £30.
That includes the carry cases, especially the carry cases those things cost way to much.

Oh and paints, I would be a bit happier if the paints where at least 50p cheaper to make it 5 for £10 instead of 4.

Ailaros wrote:Paying $1000 for a never-ending beer bottle may be a laughably high price to spend for a single bottle of beer, but how long do you have to go before you've gotten at least $1000 of beer out of it? After that, it's effectively free beer.

This analogy only works if, after the buyer gets about $500 of beer out of their bottle, the pub declares that people are no longer allowed to bring their old magic beer bottles into the pub, forcing them to either drink at home alone, or to spend $250 to upgrade their beer bottle to the new standard.

Ailaros wrote:
And yeah, if they increase the price, they will lower volume. You don't think that GW understands basic economics? The point is that the amount of market share they drive out is LESS than the extra revenue they pull in through sales, thus profits go UP even if there are FEWER people purchasing their product.

Of course, there is an equilibrium, as having the game be so expensive that only the five richest kings of europe can afford it is going to produce less profits due to volume even if the price per model is very, very high. The thing is, they haven't reached this equilibrium yet.

While the basic economics you are quoting is true, the situation is much more complex than that. Even if we only consider the basics, by raising prices, decreasing volume, and increasing profits, while assuming that the overall wargaming market stays the same size, you are in effect losing market share to your competitors. While this might seem insignificant in the early stages, where you still have semi-monopolistic control of the market, if this trend continues, GW will start seeing a lot of really bad side effects.

One of the first things that will happen with losses in market share is a loss of scale economies. This means that since they are selling less product, they are also purchasing less materials, running their machines less frequently, etc. All of these could raise their costs. These are factors that generally don't get factored into basic economics, but do have serious and major impacts on a real world company's bottom line. Many contracts are negotiated based on volumes, and if your volumes go down, you get less favorable pricing on the materials you are buying. You also lose potential savings on shipping. In producing less, you also run your machines less frequently, and you may not be effectively covering your up front costs in investing in the equipment that you purchased based on estimates of prior higher quantities of sales. Also, you can see these effects on their ancillary operations like stores closing in some areas (not enough customers), GTs closing down, etc. There are far ranging chains of effects that can happen with a loss of scale. These scale effects can also start a vicious cycle of continuous price increases in an attempt to cover increasing costs due to lower scale. Hopefully this is not the case with GW, but it does seem like a plausible reason for the constant price increases.

Another major side effect is that you begin to lose market power with your customers. When you are a monopoly or near monopoly you have significant power over your customers. They could do whatever they wanted, and the customer would have little recourse. As you lose your semi-monopoly however, you lose this freedom as customers begin having more influence and more power over you. As evidenced by many in this thread, GW is in essence driving their own customers to other competitors. Since this is a network product/industry (meaning the product has more value the more people own the product since you have more people to play with), this is extremely risky. At some point other companies' products will have a larger network than GW, and a cascade will occur where people start dropping GW exponentially faster. Conversely, as competing companies build their networks larger and larger, exponentially more people will gravitate to those games. As more customers leave, GW is increasingly vulnerable to the whims of its customers, but also its shareholders. Generally this can lead to more poor decisions being made (though maybe in GWs case it might not be so bad to actually listen to its customers more).

Finally something that's rarely considered is that it is much more difficult and costly to build a company's customer base back up versus the added profit gained by destroying your market share. Companies in other industries spend multi-millions of dollars trying to build up market share, and it's not just for ego boosting. There are tangible business effects that are very positive from having more market share, some of which I've touched on earlier.

That is not to say that profit doesn't matter. But rather there is a fine balance to consider between sacrificing market share and showing a profit as well as many unintended consequences to consider before you slash your market share for profit. Furthermore, the two are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to be profitable AND gain market share. The fact that GW is unable to accomplish this leads me to believe that they are either:
1. Incapable of doing so due to some internal factors unknown to us.
2. Seeking only short term profit gains to appease shareholders / drive up option values.
3. Managerially deficient.
4. Lazy.

It's difficult to say without having an inside line into the company, and any of us can only guess what the true reason might be. Regardless, it's a risky road that they walk.

well, it's a little more clever than that, at least, as I can see it.

The main loss to driving up prices is that it decreases the number of new people coming into the game. Needless to say, cheapness of product wasn't a big draw in the first place.

That said, it appears to me to be part of a legitimate strategy. They hike the prices to get more from veteran players at the exclusion of new players. Then they release DoW and Ultramarines: the movie, which gets a LOT more people interested in the product than lower prices did. Sure, the number of new people they retain is much lower (in part due to higher prices), but the net number that arrive and stick is much higher, even if the percentage goes down.

Really, the only thing that's not being taken into account is veteran players who don't want to pay more (such as the OP, and several others here). My guess is that it's a calculated risk of losing some of your solid base in order to gain a bigger slice of new gamers.

Plus, you have to remember that basically every other gaming company is picking up the dross that falls out of GW. While other companies are picking up disgruntled old gamers, GW is actually making new gamers. It's easy to have a quality product for cheap that's community-oriented when it's whole market is picking up disgruntled scraps from the new sod that the big company in the field is cutting.

Motograter wrote:To be fair Malifaux is a ton cheaper than GW. The reason for that. You only need those 4 to 6 models to play. While with GW you need around 40+ and at there prices well..... For example i`ve paid less than a hundred pounds to get the rulebook, fate deck and the whole Resurrectionist faction bar the crooked men (so far). If I went to GW and spent under a hundred quid i`d come out with well nothing really as you cant play a GW core game for less than £150 to £200 plus.

You basically echoed what I said.
My only point of contention is that, on a small scale, Malifaux is actually the more expensive of the two. Where it comes into it's own is the small (skirmish) scale of the game. That makes it a cheaper investment to PLAY.

Motograter wrote:For those also saying wel quit the hobby what hobby.. Wargaming? GW don`t own the rights to it as some very narrow minded people seem to think. GW hobby is what that is but in no way is the WARGAMING hobby just GW. I quit GW as there is nothing good about it currently. I may come back to it but its not likely as there are a ton of far more interestong companies out there who produce good models, far, far better rules and acually know what customer value truly is.

As it stands there is no solution for GW at the minute nor are there solutions for there "fans". It`s a case of continue to pay stupid prices and play a poor game or leave play another game if you really do like the WAGAMES hobby and hope that GW pull there head out there ass before its too late for them.

Presuming the fans of 40K still want to play the 40K game, there are really only a few solutions I can (reasonably) see.

1) Start getting everything you can from trade sites, like Bartertown [/shameless plug] and when you MUST buy, do not buy anything directly from GW, even if it means you must convert plastic models for that special "Direct Only" character.

2) Just keep buying like you do now, and deal with the price increases

3) Buy non-GW models whenever possible and just understand that you will not be allowed to use these models in most GW sanctioned tournaments and/or GW stores.

Personally, I'm thinking I might just stick with #1, but start looking into #3 for new purchases instead of GW models.


Eric

Also keep in mind that you don't have to have a full squad of guys. If I have 10 bases, 2 with Space marines with melta guns, one with an upgrade guy with a chainsword, and 7 empty bases for bolter marines, I see no reason it couldn't play just as well if the game is your primary interest. I intend to start a Fantasy army if 8th edition looks cool, but all of my units are only going to be a front rank backed by empty bases. Does having the extra dudes to paint just so they can die really make the game that much better?

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Also keep in mind that you don't have to have a full squad of guys. If I have 10 bases, 2 with Space marines with melta guns, one with an upgrade guy with a chainsword, and 7 empty bases for bolter marines, I see no reason it couldn't play just as well if the game is your primary interest. I intend to start a Fantasy army if 8th edition looks cool, but all of my units are only going to be a front rank backed by empty bases. Does having the extra dudes to paint just so they can die really make the game that much better?

Why not just print a sheet on cardboard with boxs then. Cross out the dead ones, colour in the characters or use a letter.

Much much cheaper and same effect.

For playtesting you'd bet I'd be up for that I'm not opposed to the hobby aspect by any stretch and I love getting to use guys I've painted, but after taking a break from GW to play some skirmish games, it seems really silly to me to use lots and lots of guys as essentially one big guy. I still like to build and paint my little dudes though, I just don't feel the need to over-hobby beyond what I would consider enjoyable because some book suggests I do it when I have opponents who are more than happy to play me otherwise.

do not buy anything directly from GW

QFA. I've had one tau hammerhead and one broadside ordered for well over 2 months now, still on back order.

But, yeah, back on to the topic.

Ailaros wrote:well, it's a little more clever than that, at least, as I can see it.

The main loss to driving up prices is that it decreases the number of new people coming into the game. Needless to say, cheapness of product wasn't a big draw in the first place.

That said, it appears to me to be part of a legitimate strategy. They hike the prices to get more from veteran players at the exclusion of new players. Then they release DoW and Ultramarines: the movie, which gets a LOT more people interested in the product than lower prices did. Sure, the number of new people they retain is much lower (in part due to higher prices), but the net number that arrive and stick is much higher, even if the percentage goes down.

Really, the only thing that's not being taken into account is veteran players who don't want to pay more (such as the OP, and several others here). My guess is that it's a calculated risk of losing some of your solid base in order to gain a bigger slice of new gamers.

Plus, you have to remember that basically every other gaming company is picking up the dross that falls out of GW. While other companies are picking up disgruntled old gamers, GW is actually making new gamers. It's easy to have a quality product for cheap that's community-oriented when it's whole market is picking up disgruntled scraps from the new sod that the big company in the field is cutting.

While "cheapness" of the game may not have been a big draw, the converse is also true: The "expensiveness" of the product can be a significant deterrent. From the strategy that you suggest, these are people that are spending $39.99 on a computer game. You are now asking them to put down $300+ just to start. You are also asking them to assemble and paint all of these. These are people who are used to having instant gratification, and you are now asking them to invest a great deal of time and effort into their entertainment. I question whether this is even the right customer to be trying to market to and convert.

These are huge barriers to entry already, not even considering a entry price that is 10x what they are used to seeing. Furthermore, you are highly dependent on your existing or veteran base of players to bring in the new players with fun games and positive statements about the company. If you have disgruntled, dissatisfied existing customers, how effective do you think that will be as an introduction to the game? It'd be like walking into a cell phone store and hearing the employees bad mouth the carrier. Again, it being a network activity, you NEED your existing players to bring in new players.

Moreover, you have the problem that you are dependent on an outside company to generate interest in your own product, rather than your existing customer base to spread targeted positive information by word of mouth. This means that if there is a lull in the development cycle of these IP properties (like a couple year break in Dawn of War releases), or even worse, if there are dud games released with this IP you just lost your only means of gaining new customers, which by design you have gambled your entire business model on.

That strategy might make sense if they were getting a huge amount of new players with each new IP related release, with their own staff to prop up their game. Unfortunately their unit sales have been dropping for years now. I find it hard to believe that the wargaming market is a strongly growing market. It seems more like a niche mature/declining market, who's peak came in the early part of the last decade. While anecdotal, I don't find more game stores now than 10 years ago. In those stores I also don't see more people than 10 years ago. It's about the same wherever I go. With all of the GW store closures lately, the evidence would tend to also point to the fact that this business model has not been effective in growing their business. In fact, over the years, their business as measured against their competitors has been shrinking.

I'm lead to believe that a big factor of the store closures in the US were that there were just not enough new sales to support them. All of these tend to point to a flaw in the logic that the IP products bring in enough new gamers. Furthermore, the strategy that you bring up doesn't seem quite sound in my opinion. While it is true they have relatively low cost entry games, the leap to the extremely high priced things you need to buy to continue playing tend to scare away the new players as I mentioned earlier. If new players were outnumbering the number of players that left every year, then you would see an increase in unit sales, not a decrease.

Also, I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but it is not possible to have a net increase of customers with diminishing market share unless you are saying that there are more new customers going to other game companies by way of being introduced to wargaming through GW IP? Even if this is what you are saying, that doesn't make sense to me. People that only know of GW IP are not going to then immediately move to a Wyrd or a PP. I'm not going to see Ultramarine the movie and then go out and buy Wyrd products.

Instead, what I believe is happening is that they took a big gamble with the strategy you purported above and it failed. They tried to open a lot of their own stores so that they wouldn't be reliant on their existing customers (who they knew would be angered by the constant price increases they needed to get to the level where they would make money off of one shot new customers). Unfortunately, they greatly underestimated the interest that these IP products would generate while overestimating their own ability to successfully promote and market the game once the new customers did show up. As a result they not only angered their existing customer base, but they also opened the door the their competitors to poach the now angry customers from them. Once they started losing unit sales, the only way to make the numbers financially in the short term was to either outsource to a low cost country (which they refused to do) or to raise prices and get more profit out of their die hard customers. They now seem to be stuck in the vicious cycle of shrinking unit volumes and market share as well as the inability to generate enough new interest.

Well I'm not saying it's necessarily a SUCCESSFUL strategy, so much as it seems to be a purposeful strategy, rather than a bunch of bumbling oafs sitting around a board room trying to figure out how to piss off customers, as so many GW consumers seem to believe.

Plus, even though sales are down, GW is now in the black, so they must be doing SOMETHING right.

You can live off 300 British pounds? I need to move to where you live, rent alone for the cheaper apartments is 382 here and thats after I split the bill with my two room mates. A one bed one bath apartment runs 580 pounds per month where my friend lives which is still a lower/working class area. Thats still before food, fuel, insurance... :(

Luco wrote:You can live off 300 British pounds? I need to move to where you live, rent alone for the cheaper apartments is 382 here and thats after I split the bill with my two room mates. A one bed one bath apartment runs 580 pounds per month where my friend lives which is still a lower/working class area. Thats still before food, fuel, insurance... :(

I'm lucky my rent is very low thanks to my circumstances. the main bulk is gas/electricity.
But I have cut my bills down to about 300 (150 each) every 3 months. Just need to be a dick about not leaving lights on, ect.

So I guess I have a bit of luck on my side. Im also happy to say that I have absolutely no debts =] not that it matters lol.

One option I've contemplated is to stick with GW-only models for my existing armies (Dark Angels and Tyranids) but buy more and more non-GW minis for my two work-in-progress armies (Chaos Space Marines and Imperial Guard). If I want to go to tourneys or play in GW stores, I still have a choice of two armies. And there's so much nice stuff out there that would fit very nicely into a Chaos or IG army (notably Heresy's demons, way nicer than most of GW's, and Old Crow's vehicles, way cheaper than any of GW's IG vehilces).

prices going up always sucks. Just ask someone who remembers when gas was 10 cents a gallon, or when a new car could be had for less than $5000 US. I definitely don't like the fact that PS3 games are $60 new, and it's definitely balls that prices on models are going up.

a couple of things make this tolerable for me [I don't like it, but I can deal with it, I guess]: one is that GW is not unique in raising their prices. They might be unique in the frequency of their increases, but whatever. If they're okay with me having less money to spend & fewer figs to get when I do spend it, well that's what I get for being such a minute drop in the bucket.
Two, and I'm sure this has been mentioned before elsewhere, but I really believe it, I am still able to get use out of figs & codices from 2nd edition. If I've got a tactical squad I bought 6 years ago, it's still just as legitimate & effective as one I pay more money for to buy today. Compare that to Magic, where I think there's almost a demand that you are purchasing new cards systematically in order to keep a deck effective or competetive. I understand the majority of cards can be had on the cheap, but my god I see some cards going for $90+ for one card! And odds are that card will be obsolete or unusable in some form in like 5 years.
I also understand that I'm basically stuck with what I've got right now. I really want to expand & build 2000 points of Orks, and I would love to start up a Tau army. Cost is a prohibitive factor in those endeavours, but I still enjoy my Eldar, WH & DH on a very regular basis.

I could be way off base here, and probably [typically] am. But for me the dollar value is tied to entertainment value. I go into my FLGS three times a week & sit at a table playing games for hours, without having to so much as buy a soda. In a way, paying out the ass for models is my way of trying to support the store owner to whatever degree his margin might be on whatever it is I buy. I'm a big fan of locally owned & operated, and I try to do whatever I can to keep it so that on any day [when there's not a Yu-Gi-Oh regionals being held ] I can go in & play a game and not be bothered to spend a dime.

I feel bad that I can't spend more cash on GW products in a way, since I really do appreciate having tables, terrain & great opponents [perhaps, even, friends?] all pro bono & within walking distance of my house. That, and helping a local business be successful. I know they don't keep the lights on & the shelves stocked just on profit from GW, but I imagine it still helps...

It does suck, and I don't begrudge anyone for whom this is the end of the world, but as they say, ''we soldier on...''

[edit]: also, I think they make some cool models. I also love the models of other companies & GW's semi-relaxed standards on what you can use to play just means I've got more options, if not less cash or booze