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Which gives you 5 more storm bolters, and a cyclone missile launcher and Inv Save. One lascannon hit no longer means you're looking at a Wrecked result

On second thought - adding Captain Sicarius to a marine gunline just makes too much sense:

Captain Sicarius
2x TL Autocannon Dreadnaught
2x TL Autocannon Dreadnaught
3 MM Attack Bikes
3 MM Land Speeders with Heavy Bolters
3 Dakka Predators
5 Terminators, one with Cyclone Missile launcher and a Chain Fist
1 10 man squad with Missile launcher, Flamer, SGT with PF and Combi-flamer, TL HB Razorback
1 10 man squad with Missile launcher, Meltagun, SGT with PF and Combi-melta, TL HB Razorback
1 10 man squad with Lascannon and plasmagun, SGT has a teleport homer

I give the lascannon squad tankhunter or I infiltrate them and use the homer to bring down the Terminators to support them . I can also outflank the Meltagun gun Tactical squad and use them like Space Wolf Scouts

List has 28 heavy weapons

I say add another TL autocannon to each dread. Then transports will be sure to pop exposing troops to your many heavy bolters, which won't do anything if people are hiding in tanks...

One termie will more than pay for that upgrade. I just think stopping the enemies advance is too important with a gunline

Actually - just dropping the heavy flamers from dreads for the second auto cannons. I just like the Dreadnaught CCW too much. Dropping that 6th terminator would pay for 3 multi-meltas on those speeders though. Plus I could add a meltagun on one of the tact squads and a combi melta gun for the SGT.

thats the way.

Tac squads provide protection and short ranged anti-tank for the Lascannon squads and other vehicles which are blasting at the enemy.


i would drop a heavy bolter on the LSs and find points for Typhoon missile launchers. 6 more Krak or Frag missiles will add alot of mobile Firepower to the list.

I think you are going to compromise on the dreads and they won't be effective one way or another. Of course they will need CC support without the DCCW, but twice as many TL shots early in the game will really make a difference I think. The DCCW in a gunline may just be too little too late, unless you are playing against the burrowing mawloc...


But I am clearly biased...

Templar - I like the Typhoon on paper and I understand your affinity for them.

Its a 90 point upgrade for the speeders to become Typhoons. It may be worth it because Sicarius is in the list - increasing the chance of an alpha strike...

To do that Id have to drop a Predator. Heavy weapon count drops to 25. It feels like putting too much in one basket....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Road Rage - I just dremmeled my twin-linked autocannons from the Bastion set - I can outfit 2 dreads like those. Yours are dead sexy.

I edited the list above to reflect feedback.

Where on earth does one get Autocannons for Dreadnought?

I'm tempted to take Termies instead of Dreadnoughts now........
Especially with the Librarian being in Terminator Armour.

OK List revised:

Librarian
Vortex Of Doom
Null Zone
Terminator Armour w/ Storm Shield

140

ELITES:

Dreadnought
T-L Autocannon
T-L Autocannon

125

Dreadnought
Missile Launcher
T-L Lascannon

145

Dreadnought
T-L Autocannon
T-L Autocannon

125


TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Chainsword
Bolt Pistol
Plasma Gun
Plasma Cannon

185

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Chainsword
Bolt Pistol
Flamer
Plasma Cannon

175

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Plasma
Chainsword
Flamer
Plasma Cannon

185

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Chainsword
Bolt Pistol
Plasma Gun
Plasma Cannon

185

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Plasma
Chainsword
Plasma Gun
Plasma Cannon

195

HEAVY SUPPORT

Devastator Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Bolter
Signum
x 2 Lascannon
X 2Missile Launchers

270

Devastator Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Bolter
Signum
x 2 Lascannon
x 2 Missile Launchers

270

Total: 2000

10 man Dev squads means I can combat squad them and position lascannons throughout the army. Plasma Cannons are way to go with Gunline. And Terminators are not.

Looks a lot better right now.

I will just drop Wortex of Doom on the Libby, I'll like The Avenger instead.

Pay attention on all this "Gets Hot" heavy weapons, not only you'll cannot use them all the times because you'll certainly need to move vs objectives but you'll risk to see your sq. reduced by your self.

You have 3 Tactical sq. that must stay immobile and only 2 that will have to move on objectives, considering also the Devs I will invert the proportions.

You will seriously need to hit your adversary in the firsts 2 turns, vs mostly all armyes.

Pay attention at full Deep Striking army, you'll be blocked in CC loosing almost all your potential.

Expect do draw a lot of games.

You can use them every shooting phase Toban. If you combine the roll for Gets Hot with the Roll to Hit.
And the amount of 1s I roll is very rare (uh oh Dice Gods heard that).

Avenger on Libby.......umm nope. Rather take the Str 10 AP 1 for use on high AV stuff thanks.


Against Deep Striking Army......they have to endure a turn of being shot to hell by an awful lot of template blasts......

Plasma Cannon is HEAVY, you must stay stationary and if you need to go on objectives you will have to move, don't you think?

It's true that the Vortex of Doom/Terminator armor is a good combo but it will mean (in case of failure) one 5+ invulnerable save.
Give him SS to be very very sure.

So ARE Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Multi Melta.....

Librarian has Storm Shield


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And besides, that's what combat squadding is for

Snipers can be a pain....but that's what plasma cannon was invented for. no cover saves, and since it's a template I can fire the cannon without having to worry if I can see you or not.

Sorry late comer but noticed this and thought I'd help out with rules understanding.

It appears you think that plasma cannons fire templates they don't. They fire blast markers which do not ignore cover.

Plasma cannons are also not barrage weapons so you will still need LoS to fire them. Plasma cannons are a pretty awful choice for taking out camocloaked scouts. they are designed for taking out terminators not scouts...

AS to the lastest encarnation of the list. Looks an ok gunline. Personally I don't think SMs do static gunlines very well nor does anyone really in 5th Ed. Your list will struggle against alphastrike lists heavily as you've no option but to sit there and take it whilst you don't have much of an alphastrike yourself.

On the tactical squads why have the sarge's with combis got chainswords rather than bolt pistols? All you're doing is removing the option to fire a BP shot before assaulting for no benefit. Just seems odd. As for the BP/CS Sargeants since you're going gunline why not bolters? Will 1 S4 attack when you are charged make any difference? When you are giving up a shot every turn your unit is firing?

In capture and control you'll NEVER reach his objective so you're hoping purely for a draw. Whilst in seize ground you can either send just 15 marines against his entire army to hope to hold the objectives or give up lots of your shooting to put your guys in harms way. Whilst in annihilation against a mobile opponent or an alphastrike you'll be just too easy to deal with.

Unless your opponent walks slowly into your guns you'll lose pretty much every time with this army.

You need some elements of mobility in your army even it's just to contest objectives. Likewise if you want to do gunline without transports I'd suggest trying to get more long range fire power as your fire power is still at its best in rapidfire range a range your army has no way of ever getting into...

True..bolt pistols and chainsword is what i've modelled him with.

Plasma Cannon need LoS. Ok.

Well I would consider Heavy Bolters but EVERYONE keeps saying "oh no not HB they're crap!"

Cut off one or two Tactical sq to take 2 10x Assault Marines sq. instead. They will can cover differents roles givin' you the possibility to at least contesting some adversary objective.

How about this?

I consolidated/focused the weaponry in the squads a bit more, dropped a Dreadnaught and added another Terminator Librarian with Storm Shield.

This should give you some late game mobility to contest OBJs by using Gate of Infinity to move Squads around.


HQ:

Librarian with Terminator Armor w/ Storm Shield, Gate of Infinity, Null Zone
Librarian with Terminator Armor w/ Storm Shield, Gate of Infinity, Vortex of Doom

ELITES:

Dreadnought
T-L Autocannon
T-L Autocannon
125

Dreadnought
T-L Autocannon
T-L Autocannon
125


TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Bolter, Bolt Pistol
Plasma Gun
Plasma Cannon
185

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Chainsword
Bolt Pistol , Meltabombs
Flamer
Lascannon
190

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-melta
powerfist
Meltagun
Lascannon
220

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Bolter, Bolt Pistol
Plasma Gun
Lascannon
190

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Plasma
Powerfist
Plasma Gun
Lascannon
225

HEAVY SUPPORT

Devastator Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Bolter
Signum
X 4Missile Launchers

230

Devastator Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Bolter
Signum
x 4 Missile Launchers

230

Total: 2000

I like it. The Missile Launchers can frag the hell of out incoming infantry while the tac squads get rid of armour early in the game.
Librarians go with Tactical Squads to Gate themselves on to objectives.
I prefer to play annihilation anyway so they'd just stay throwing out Null Zone and Vortex hehe

HBs aren't lame for Tac squads. i take them all the time.

however Lasannons or missile launchers are better for a gunline as your anti-infantry should be on your Dreadnoughts and landspeeders.



the place to get TL-autocannons for dreadnoughts is the Aegis Defense line. the Quad-autocannon splits in 2 right down the middle. a magnet or some glue and your done.


if you give a Squad a Plasma gun you should give the Sergeant a Combi-plasma too. increases the threat level. a Lightining claw is a good choice as well as it will discourage MEQs from assaulting. and if you forgo firing you can charge something.

same thing goes for flamer squads, combi-flamer is another template and combined with a LC will make whatever you charged cry.





if you have the models those 2 devestator squads should be replaced with 2 squadrons of 2 Typhoon landspeeders with heavy bolters. the speeders are cheaper, have more guns and won't die to small arms fire.

I only have one landspeeder at mo.

BTW is it legal to have a landspeeder in a game with Typhoon Missile Launcher AND Assault Cannon?

No

BTW is it legal to have a landspeeder in a game with Typhoon Missile Launcher AND Assault Cannon?

No only a HB, Heavy flamer or Multimelta. Even if it was possible do you think that it would be a good idea? Given the Assault Cannon costs 40 points so your AV10 all round vehicle weighs in at 130 points...

Well i've modelled mine to have both so i'll say "counts" as either.

This looks familiar. Much of what I'm going to say now mirrors what I said in your previous thread. No mobility, no way to damage AV14. In fact, it looks like you've taken a step backwards by not including the Land Speeder or the Rhino, the only two units I thought were good!

Here's a little scenario for you. My 2000 point Space Marine list has 2 Land Raiders full of Assault Terminators. Please tell me, with your current list, how you would intend on damaging these Land Raiders before my Terminators eat up your static tactical squads? In an objective match, what would stop me from parking those Land Raiders on your objectives and simply denying them from you?

You're limited by what models you have available, and that's fine. But without being able to suggest other units (such as Rhinos, more Land Speeders, etc) I don't see how else we can help you. There's only so many variations you can effectively make out of Tactical Squads, Devastator Squads and a few Dreadnoughts.

For what it's worth, if I were to try to make a 2000 pt gunline SM list, and using as many of your models as I reasonably could, here's what I would take.

HQ
Pedro Kantor - 175
Master of the Forge - Conversion Beamer, Bike - 155

Troops
Tactical Squad - Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino - 210
Tactical Squad - Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino - 210
Tactical Squad - Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino - 210
Tactical Squad - Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino - 210

Elites
Sternguard Veterans - 2 x Plasma Cannon - 145
Sternguard Veterans - 2 x Plasma Cannon - 145

Fast Attack
2 x Land Speeder - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer - 140
2 x Land Speeder - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer - 140

Heavy Support
Dreadnought - 2 x TL-Autocannon - 125
Dreadnought - 2 x TL-Autocannon - 125

Pedro would make those Sternguard scoring, and would be placed in bolstered terrain to survive longer. The Tactical Squads become so much more powerful and flexible with transports, and they now contain something that can threaten heavy armour. The Master of the Forge gives you a long range Large Blast to help against horde, and with the bike and standard servo-harness can be used as a quick counter-assault unit if needed. It's not perfect by any means, but it's a start. In order for this to work you would need to pick up, or proxy, a few Rhinos and a few Land Speeders - I don't see this as an entirely unreasonable suggestion.

Non Transport Gun Line lots of Dakka

Librarian [Gate, Vortex] 100

3 Land Speeder [Heavy Bolter x2] 180
3 Land Speeder [Heavy Bolter x2] 180
3 Land Speeder [Heavy Bolter x2] 180

10 Marine Tac [Melta Bomb, Flamer/Lascannon] 185
10 Marine Tac [Flamer/Lascannon] 180
10 Marine Tac [Flamer/Lascannon] 180
10 Marine Tac [Flamer/Lascannon] 180
10 Marine Tac [Flamer/Lascannon] 180
9 Scouts w/SGT Telion [Missle, Sniper] 200

Predator [AutoCannon, Hb Sponsons] 85
Predator [AutoCannon, Hb Sponsons] 85
Predator [AutoCannon, Hb Sponsons] 85

now thats a pretty good list.

Redundancy is good, some call it spam, but it is good for a gunline.


having an army full of identical units messes with an opponents target priority as he can't simply negate a piece of firepower as you just have another one.

61 marines and 12 vehicles is a daunting number to face.


my only problem is that the Librarian is fragile with no invuln and his powers don't do much to support the Gunline, but he can be a nice distraction/annoyance unit.

Dave - now thats a Dakka list! I like the inclusion of the scouts for their infiltration. Id prefer a beefed up HQ - my preference being Sicarius and Id prefer at least a melta or 2 and some power fists. I get what youre doing though - maxing Dakka in sake of everything else.

I like it.

OK Rethought list for 2000 points:

(rembember I only have one Landspeeder and no armour)

HQ:

Librarian
Null Zone
Vortex Of Doom

100

Librarian
Null Zone
Machine Curse

100


TROOPS:

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Plasma Gun
Lascannon

190

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Plasma Gun
Lascannon

190

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Plasma Gun
Lascannon

190

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Melta Gun
Plasma Cannon

180

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Melta Gun
Plasma Cannon

180

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Melta Gun
Plasma Cannon

180

FAST ATTACK / ASSAULT

Landspeeder
Tornado Missile Launcher

90

HEAVY SUPPORT

Devastator Squad (10 man)
x 4 Missile Launchers

230

Devastator Squad (10 man)
x 4 Missile Launchers

230

Devastator Squad (10 man)

230


TOTAL: 2000


That takes out armour at range and up close......and puts down an awful lot of firepower with the librarians taking turns to cast Null Zone or Machine Curse or using VoD.

Mate are you trying to do a space marine gunline? If so you want master of the forge and 6 dreadnoughts with assortment of double autocannons and lascannons and missiles. Then throw in land speeder typhoons and fill the rest with troops.

So:

Master of the Forge - conversion beamer

Dreadnought - 2 x autocannons

Dreadnought - 2 x autocannons

Dreadnought - 2 x autocannons

Tactical Marines - plasma gun & missile launcher

Tactical Marines - plasma gun & missile launcher

Tactical Marines - plasma gun & missile launcher

Dreadnought - lascannon & missile launcher

Dreadnought - lascannon & missile launcher

Devastators - 4 x missile launchers

I've put devs in because I know you like them, if you wanted some help you should have PMed me mate

I would like to know what the 10 man Devestator squad with no heavy weapons is for?

might as well make it a Tactical squad.

since they are costed the same Id wager that they do infact have MLs