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Yes, I missed that. Make sure the combi weapon matches the special weapon so you can deal double pain when really needed

hmmmm well I'm planning on running this list very soon (like thursday if I can) so I don't have time to get 2 extra rhinos up and running.

Should I change the flamers for plasma guns to get some range? Or go with lascannons for the tac squads so they can punch from range?

Thunderhammer and combi-melta for sergeant......ok. I can do that. I'll just take the illegal mod of the combi-melta off my apothecary and give him a bolt pistol.

If you don't have rhinos then flamers are pretty useless as you won't get into range. Switching them to plasmas is probably the best thing.

That's what I thought. it's a pity, but I got the flamers on the dreads at least.

I'm still reeling at the thought of what I could do with three sternguard squads.

150 attacks at 15" range!!!! with pedro kantor

If you have sternguard in combat then they're not shooting those awesome bolters.

Rethought Vulkan list for a 1000 point army instead:

HQ:

Vulkan 190

Elites:

x 2 Dreadnought w/ MM & HF 230

x 1 Dreadnought w/ T-L LC & ML 145

TROOPS

Tac Squad (10 man)
Power Sword / Bolt Pistol
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Rhino

220

Tac Squad (10 man)
Chainsword & Combi- Melta
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Rhino 215


Dreadnoughts provide Melta and flamer spam while tac squads have t-l Flamers to hold objectives....

After all, gun lines with lots of Marines are stupid.
The enemy like Orks or Nids will come at you no matter what and they your Marines are stuck in cc.
An army needs not only fire power or numbers, but also mobility.

Well let's see...

Firepower:

x 3 Dreads
two tac squads with long range and cc ability.

check


Mobility

Dreads can run
Rhinos.

check

numbers:

meh. Space marines against orks.......nice fight.

Well, what I found useful are two Rhinos filled with Tactical squads.
If the enemy comes close, then move the Rhinos at full speed, 12'', disembark, and rapid fire.

Thank you wuestenfux

Corennus wrote:Thank you wuestenfux

You're welcome.

In a gun line army you need counter-strike units.
Dreads are quite good for this if they keep one cc arm.

If you're going vulkan you need to pack in meltas etc or else you're not getting the most from that special character.

I'm packing meltas on my dreadnoughts mercer. The problem with meltas on tac squads is they're not good as anti infantry. with missile launcher I get nearly same anti armour as Melta (at 48") AND some anti infantry power.

You misunderstand me mate. You should put meltas, flamers and thunder hammers on as many units as possible. You have a single melta and a combi melta! You have 3 x flamers. That's not packed in at all. You should do this:

Dreadnought w/ multi melta & heavy flamer

Dreadnought w/ multi melta & heavy flamer

Tacticals w/ Rhino - multi melta & meltagun - sgt w/ combi melta

Any squads with flamers should be combat squad down with missile launchers, but take a combi flamer on the sgt and rhino too. Any remaining rhinos try and squeeze hunter killer missiles on, but you need to take them in multiples.

ok........
I was gonna take multi=meltas on the tac squads so let's think......you want me to lose the long range dread to pack more melta and flamer in??
it's becoming a very short range army.

so

x 3 Dreadnoughts w/ HF & MM 345

Tac squad w/ rhino
Sergeant: Combi-Flamer & Chainsword
Flamer
Multi-Melta

215

Tac Squad w/ rhino
Sergeant: Combi-Flamer & Chainsword
Melta Bomb
Flamer
Multi Melta

220


leaves 30 points...

extra armour for dreadnoughts , can't afford to have them stall and get immobilised.





and

Melta is all about short ranged I'm afriad, that's the bad news about it. You get get around this by using drop pods on your dreadnoughts but I wouldn't, just run them and pop smoke on the first turn and use terrain to hide. Make sure your tact squads with multi meltas have rhinos however.

Your list wise your dreads are fine as long as you use them like I said above

Your tacticals however are messed up because a flamer and multi melta have different roles. Take multi melta and meltagun or flamer and missile launcher but combat squad the flamer and launcher squad.

OK. doesn't make any diff pointswise thankfully

So one dedicated tankhunter with sergeant wielding combi-melta.
Melta Gun
Multi=Melta

One anti infantry with sergeant having combi-flamer,
flamer
missile launcher

sounds good.

No mate just weapon juggling, though the meltas are 5 points over flamers

Units are a lot better mate. Just make sure you combat squad that flamer unit as the missile launcher has the range.

MERCER YOU SILLY SILLY SILLY (not silly actually WH40k god but bare with me) SILLY GUY

VULKAN GIVES YOU TWIN-LINKED AND MASTER CRAFTED BUT YOU LOSE COMBAT TACTICS

Dude, combat tactics and combat squads are different rules. You lost combat tactics with vulkan which means you cannot auto fail a test. You can still split into combat squad

ahhhhhh ohhhhhhhh eeeeeee ummmmmmmmmm oooooooooooo

thank you

lol, no worries

OK report on how last night went:

I lost.

Against Black Templars

My Vulkan army (with 400 points of terminators and a typhoon to bring it to 1500 points) against:

Landraider Crusader.
Tri-Las Predator
Dreadnought w/ lascannon & ML
x 2 Rhinos
Emperor's Champion
x 2 Crusader squads
10 terminators (CC)


At first I thought whoopee! all my twin-linked melta dreads will be able to get close up and pop the rhinos and dreadnought and predator. Then the store manager plonked a massive manufactorum building in the middle of the table and a forest that counted as difficult terrain to one side.

Bugger.

He had everything on the table (terminators in the crusader. although I'm going to have to think about how you get 10 terminators in a crusader even if you're a Black Templar!)

I had my terminator squad (10 man) in reserve. my two tac squads in the rhinos (with Vulkan) and my dreadnoughts close to the massive building. I'd deployed my typhoon on the left hand side of the building, hoping to shoot round and score some missile hits on first turn.
I combat squadded the second tac squad (flamer and ML) with the ML guys staying out of the rhino and the rest travelling inside. The melta squad weren't combat squadded.

TURN 1

I rolled for initiative and went first. I moved my typhoon around the building to the left so it could see his Rhinos.
I moved my ML combat squad to the base of the massive building, ready to climb next turn.

My dreadnoughts (all 3) moved around the right hand side of the building, to face the opposing force of the dreadnought and tri-lascannon pred on other side of the table. Between them was the wood (counting as obscuring, and a ruined fortified wall (counted as 3+ cover save).

My other rhino moved closer to the building, making sure it was totally concealed.

Shooting......my Typhoon fired both missiles at the rhino it could see, going against its side armour.
Result: BIG FAT NOTHING.
Nothing else could shoot, so I ran my dreadnoughts out to the wall (forgetting to pop smoke)

My opponent decided to shield his rhinos with his LR (WTF!!! VERY Un Black Templar) meaning my ML would be ineffective next turn from the Typhoon. He decided not to move his dread or pred, so it was on to his shooting stage.

First off the dread. He fire ML first. Missed my lead dreadnought. Then the T-L Lascannon. He scored a penetrating hit. I FAILED MY COVER SAVE! ARRGH. Result: EXPLODES. but didn't cause any other damage cause it was a 1" explosion.
I'm now regretting taking Vulkan big time if he can just sit back and blast away with lascannon...
The then TriLas Pred opens up. Miss on everything! hooray!
LR can't see the dreads so that's turn 1 over.

Turn 2.
I've lost my dread! GRRRR.
First off I move my Typhoon back behind the building, no point shooting against AV14! I move my ML combat squad up on to the first floor of the building, looking to get some missile shots in later!
My other dreads take position behind the wall, and that's the movement done.
Shooting.....my ML can't shoot. nothing else is in range.....that's the turn over.

He proceeds to move his land raider forward, along with his rhinos, and moves his dread closer (not by much). His tri-las pred also moves a little, to the right hand edge of the board.
I don't like my dreads much right now.
Shooting stage: He fires his dread again. The lascannon misses! but the damned missile launcher causes my lead dread to be shaken.
The tri-las pred targets the same dread......and blows the melta gun off! NOOOOOOOOOOOO. Does cover mean nothing??

Oh well nothing can attack so it's my turn again.

Turn 3. I shoot my Typhoon out to go beside my Dreads, ready for some Missile payback.
My ML squad is now in perfect place for getting more missiles on to that dread!
And suddenly we remember I have to roll for my reserves. The Terminators are coming!
And since my tac squad had a handy teleport homer they landed right next to my Rhino. Which is just where I didn't want them.

Shooting stage: The Landraider and Rhinos were still out of melta range, and I didn't want to get beyond that 3+ cover save. so my dreads didn't do anything.
The Typhoon fired its missiles at the dread.......and missed. grrrr
My missile Launcher guy fired at the dread. NOthing.
Are they firing blanks??

OK quick roundup from then on (there was no turn limit cause we wanted to see it through)

I moved my melta team (along with Vulkan) up to support the ML team, hoping to get close enough to the Land Raider and Rhinos to pop them with meltas!
I lost another dreadnought to the multi melta on the Land Raider (wrecked) before I could do anyhing.
My last dreadnought succeeded in flaming a few of his guys after they climbed up on the building and attacked my ML guys.
The Emperor's Champion and his squad climbed up the building and engaged the melta squad. Seeing off Vulkan in ONE turn of assaults. 3 attacks from the Champion and me failing all 3 Inv Saves!
From then on he proceeded to keep me in combat every turn and the champion destroyed the whole unit single handedly (YES I KNOW NOW I SHOULD HAVE WITHDRAWN BUT I FORGOT ONCE VULKAN IS DEAD CHAPTER TACTICS REVERT TO NORMAL).
The Terminators made short work of the other squad (helped by the remaining combat squad with flamers) and then he got his own terminators out of the land raider.
All of my terminators had storm shields and thunder hammers, so struck last. and with him assaulting (with lightning claws) he struck up a massive 17 attacks! with 12 wounds.
I saved 7 of them (by now my 10 man squad was down to 5 men after finally seeing off the Emperor's champion)

My terminators were dead. The Black Templars had triumphed. And I vowed two things:

Never take Melta in anything but a *******G LAND RAIDER and tool up on Lascannon and plasma cannon.

You cannot fit 10 terminators in a crusader as terminators count for two models so that's 20. So little bit of rules knowledge missing there.

Bad luck on the typhoon not doing damage on the first turn, the dreadnoughts you should have kept where they was using the 3+ cover save and no need to pop smoke.

Don't regret taking vulkan for your lascannon dread, you've given it the wrong wargear! That's not vulkans fault.

If you didn't want the terminators by the teleport homer then why deep strike them in by it? Deep strike some where else and risk the scatter.

You know the typhoon, you was firing twice with it as it can fire 2 missile per turn - you must have had terrible luck if you kept missing.

I think you had some bad luck tbh mate, some of your tactics was sound but sometimes not so much. Also meltas on raiders are just bonus, not a must so don't worry about it.

Also do you know anything about black templars? Knowing your enemy is half the battle and if you've walked in blind then you've got a up hill struggle straight away.

I had some very bad luck. Worst of all really being that the Emperor's Champion demolished my melta squad in CC.
I didn't get to fire ONE melta shot in the entire game.
Thankfully my flamers worked.

I've got most of the White Dwarf mags covering Black Templars. I know about Righteous Zeal, and also Preferred Enemy (can reroll failed rolls to wound?) and also that they can pop smoke EVERY SINGLE FRICKING TURN.


Things i'd change:
Yes i'd change where I brought the terminators in. I'd have landed them right against the Land Raider or the Dreadnought.
I'd change the Melta Dreads for more tac squads with flamers tbh. or Devastator Squads with MM spammed to the max (if i'd gotten them on to second floor they'd have been REALLY nasty).

But mostly I'd change my HQ. I'm not comfortable with Vulkan. I'd much rather take a Captain or Chaplain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh btw i've finally bitten the bullet and bought a Predator. Admittedly it's a Baal Predator, but I can always use it as "counts as tri-las or anti-infantry"

Preferred enemy allows re-roll to hit and popping smoke you can do only once per game; pretty sure you cannot pop more than once, but I'm not sure on the BT codex. The rules for smoke launchers is in the main rulebook so I guess it's from there which is once per game.

You should have used terrain to get cover for dreads or run them forward and pop smoke, then multi melta the land raider and charge in - of course your luck didn't work on the cover saves.

The lascannon dread and tri=las pred threw me I admit.
I just wasn't so sure of running forward as soon as he popped my first dread after a cover save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1500 point Vulkan Army (MY WAY)

HQ:
Vulkan Hestan
190

Librarian (Epistolary)
Null Zone
The Avenger
Terminator Armour w/ Storm Shield

190

ELITES:

Venerable Dreadnought
Multi-Melta
Heavy Flamer
Extra Armour

190

Terminator Assault Squad (5 man)
x 5 TH/SS

200

Dreadnought
Multi-Melta
Heavy Flamer

115

Troops
Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Flamer
Flamer
Plasma Cannon
Rhino

220

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Combi-Flamer
Flamer
Plasma Cannon
Rhino
220

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Predator
T-L Lascannon
Lascannon sponsons
HK Missile

175


Voila.
Tac squads have flamer spam. Dreadnoughts STILL run, but this time i'd use them more cautiously later on to ruin enemy armour.
PREDATOR (Yes I now have one) takes out armour at range, allowing dreadnoughts to advance. And with a Venerable rolling in there he should be able to survive a bit longer.

Oh yes, Librarian deep striking with Terminators.......nasty. and no more "Emperor's Champion rules cause he passes so many bloody inv saves" heheh

Switch venerable to normal dread

And do what with the extra 60 points??

Venerable at least means I could change the result from "EXPLODES" or "WRECKED" to immobilised or Weapon Destroyed.

You can but it costs a damn lot more.

Though just noted no land raider for the assault terminators!