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Mercer please. I'm using what I have available NOQ.

I don't have 4 dreadnoughts, or a MOTF, or tonnes of landspeeders

I'm gonna cut the librarians to one, and give him terminator armour and storm shield.

So i'd cut the landspeeder and the second Librarian and go with:

Librarian with Storm Shield, Term Armour and Force Sword
Epistolary
180

Tactical Squads (6)

3 with plasma gun, lascannon

570

3 with plasma gun, plasma cannon

555

Heavy Support

Dev Squads (3)
x 4 missiles

690

1995 points. Yes i've lost the landspeeder. but three dev squads of ML can make up for that. Especially if they're combat squadded as then have 6 small squads able to cover whole battlefield and too many targets to make it worth the enemy spending all his energy destroying.

There's no point at all in the librarian mate, just adds psychic defence and if goes gating around then not a gunline.

That's why I kept the devs in and tactical squads because I know that's what you've got. But to make a decent list what you want sometimes you've got to dig in those pockets I'm afriad. I've actually got a MOTF conversion if you're interested for a few quid? And dreads you can get cheap AOBR ones and then the autocannon bits.

I don't see why this isn't a decent list. well at least I can change the librarian for a captain, or chapter master.

The problem with the last list is if you come up against IG you basically have to give up and go home as you have a total of 3 weapons that can hurt his leman russes from the front and no way of shooting at them from any other angle...

Likewise LR spam will just laugh at all those missile launchers. Against certain armies you'll do really well but your lack of melta and mobility will make you too easy to deal with for too many armies.

The libby is 180 points of nothing too he doesn't seem to have any place in your list. You have no counter charge unit and loads of plasma that will be wasted against hordes. Killer kan wall army will laugh at you and munch you.

You've got a lot of bodies but with so little mobility and some many games requiring you to make it across the board you'll really struggle to actually complete mission objectives. No gating the libby with a tac squad late game won't cover for this.

Chapter Master might be a better fit. Give him a storm bolter but otherwise keep him vanilla, his orbital bombardment would fit better with your army than anything the libby would bring.

yeah, on Marine gunlines i reccomend having all the Tactical squads have a Melta gun as their Special weapon. save Plasma for command squads and Sternguard. Lascannons as the Tac heavy weapons and missiles on your tanks.

Tanks shoot the infantry, infantry shoot the tanks.

My problem with melta guns (even multi meltas) is you have to get so frikking close!

24" (bolter range) to take out a tank with infantry??

sounds like a suicide squad.

Admittedly I could stick a tank hunting squad (melta gun, multi melta and powerfist) in a rhino and have them chase after tanks. but that means most of the enemy will blow the rhino up after one turn of moving....

Was just totalling up the amount of plasma a command squad can put out if pushed to rapid fire range actually:

4 veterans armed with plasma guns can punch out 16 Str 7 AP 3 shots in one shooting turn!

If that isn't a Terminator killer I don't know what is.....

Corennus wrote:I don't see why this isn't a decent list. well at least I can change the librarian for a captain, or chapter master.

I'm confused. On p2 you had a list up with several dreadnoughts, I make a list with 5 dreads and you say you don't have the models. You have some at least don't you? Also meltaguns aren't gunline; they're short ranged. If you move out with them then you don't have a gunline and I don't remember seeing transports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:yeah, on Marine gunlines i reccomend having all the Tactical squads have a Melta gun as their Special weapon. save Plasma for command squads and Sternguard. Lascannons as the Tac heavy weapons and missiles on your tanks.

Tanks shoot the infantry, infantry shoot the tanks.

Keh!? Meltaguns are short ranged so how do they make a gunline? No one is going to come close to get melta in the face. Why plasma on the command squads? Only benefit is the amount of plasma, still no reason to not put them on tact squads. Missiles on the tanks? Tanks have hunter killers which are anti vehicle, not anti infantry.

I have three dreadnoughts now mercer. Two normal ones and one Vet I can say "counts as normal".

And I agree about melta. Even Multi-Melta means you have to get in return fire range.

Ok so you're only two short then, AOBR are very cheap if you're worried about money.

Aye that about melta. Best thing you do can is spam missile launchers or lascannons; seems your devs have missiles I'd spam those.

So my list isn't far off what you've got then

I'm not getting the whole AOBR just for one dreadnought!!

And I have 2 squads of ML Devs modelled and painted....

You doofus! lol. Get a AOBR dreadnought from e-bay or trade on here, don't buy 2 x AOBR for a single dreadnought you mad man lol

Yeah, stick with your devs or take a full squad and combat squad them - how many missiles you got, 8?

Yeah I got 8 missiles

And if I want Dreadnoughts i'll just buy them from local store.

Right ok. Well where ever you buy them from you only need 2 more to do a much better gunline, actually you only need 1 more dreadnought to give you 4 in total and then use the other two heavy slots for your devs - cracking then.

So:

Master of the Forge

Dreadnought - your choice

Dreadnought - your choice

Dreadnought - lascannon & missile launcher

Tacticals - missile launcher & plasma gun

Tactical - missile launcher & plasma gun

Tactical - lascannon & plasma gun

Dreadnought - lascannon & missile launcher

Devs - 4 missile launchers

Devs - 4 missile launchers

That's a pretty decent gun line packing a a fair few launchers and lascannons. Maybe drop in some plasma cannons instead for tougher troops? You could give the MOTF a conversion beamer for long range blasting but that's about all he can do really.

I'm liking that list a lot.....

But wouldn't it be simpler and easier to take a landspeeder Typhoon as a long range missile launcher?

I HAVE a landspeeder already

mercer wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:yeah, on Marine gunlines i reccomend having all the Tactical squads have a Melta gun as their Special weapon. save Plasma for command squads and Sternguard. Lascannons as the Tac heavy weapons and missiles on your tanks.

Tanks shoot the infantry, infantry shoot the tanks.

Keh!? Meltaguns are short ranged so how do they make a gunline? No one is going to come close to get melta in the face. Why plasma on the command squads? Only benefit is the amount of plasma, still no reason to not put them on tact squads. Missiles on the tanks? Tanks have hunter killers which are anti vehicle, not anti infantry.

well, i always have Rhinos. and i use Melta gun combat squads to intercept big scary tanks headed for my gunline before they get too close.

i put Plasma on command squad because they can take 4 guns in the squad and are protected by FNP from Gets Hot(normally i run plasma in tac squads, but i only have 4 plasma gunners and when i run a command squad thats where they go)

sorry i was confusing you by saying Missiles on tanks for anti-infantry. I should have said Dreadnoughts and Typhoons which can take missile launchers. Lascannons go on Tac squads because they are the cheapest lascannons in the army.

my idea is that Tanks take alot of anti-infantry weapons while infantry take anti-tank weapons. Generally a Tank that is anti-infantry is cheaper then an anti-tank version(case in point: Predators) also Infantry are generally not the best anti-infantry platforms(a Heavy bolter won't kill as many infantry if its on a Tac squad as opposed to a Predator, But a Lascannon on that tac squad should pop a few tanks)

Corennus wrote:Plasma Cannon is a Heavy Weapon with Blast.

What I meant was if a team is in cover like a crater it will not protect them so much as the crater forces the models to bunch together, meaning the template will cover the whole (or most) of the squad.
And cover saves of 4+ (which is most cover) won't save most of the unit.

Yes, if they don't know how to play. My personal experience FACING gun line is 3 riflemen dreads and 3 sniper dreads. Riflemen (2 AC's) Sniper (T-Lascannon, missile launcher). I've always seen that and one scout squad with Telion, MotF and rank and file tactical marines with typhoons to follow. And, 7 razorbacks. Just kidding.

static gunline is not an option. Or...its an option if you're ok with condeding against BW orks, IG with a few Russes and SM variants with one or two LRs. Any "gunline" must have some mobile melta as well. Otherwise the LR will deliver the termies and then you are dead...

Corennus wrote:4 veterans armed with plasma guns can punch out 16 Str 7 AP 3 shots in one shooting turn!

If that isn't a Terminator killer I don't know what is.....

Please explain to me where you found this stat. Plasma is ap2 and 4 x2 is 8. Sorry to be a bit of a jerk but just trying to help. At least my above post was helpful. Seriously though, gun line just doesn't work in 5th edition. 2/3 of the missions are objective based. In capture and control you will never win. I can almost guarantee it. You have no mobility and foot slogging means you break your gun line element and you are going to get butchered from range. In seize ground, you once again have to move out meaning that your gun line element will once again be broken and you will be piecemeal in arrival to the objectives. In all honesty, 5 man combat squads do little to nothing in assault and even simple squads your opponent throws at them will take them on, let alone assault terminators. The mechanics of gun line and 5th edition AND the meta game of 40k right now strictly clash, and with two beyond your control before the game even starts, your almost already doomed. Just my thoughts.

which is why you should have a couple of combat squads with a Meltagun and combi-melta in a rhino so they can zip up and pop that LR full of terminators before they get to you.

sorry forgot it's a five man squad not a four man.

and anyways the whole point of this game is to have FUN. not obsess over every single point you spend making your army so specialised or hardcore others dont have a chance.

I already have the beard, don't want to go down the road of becoming smelly cantankerous too lol.

But honestly guys THANK YOU for all your suggestions.
I may be a 30 year old newbie with a serious case of "Idontlistenacitus", but this is fun.

Corennus wrote:sorry forgot it's a five man squad not a four man.

and anyways the whole point of this game is to have FUN. not obsess over every single point you spend making your army so specialised or hardcore others dont have a chance.

I already have the beard, don't want to go down the road of becoming smelly cantankerous too lol.

But honestly guys THANK YOU for all your suggestions.
I may be a 30 year old newbie with a serious case of "Idontlistenacitus", but this is fun.

Yea sure, I get it. I play Doublewing, Deathwing and a 10th company scout army. I'm obviously not an optimized player but my past 10 games (2 leaf blowers, 2 suit spam, 3 razor spam, 6 predator BA, and 2 vulkan marine) I haven't lost. I simply play lists I like and play them a lot until I know how to play them better then most anyone. I win with them because I have fun (so don't just throw in the towel and such) and again, know exactly what they do well and don't. You can do it with gun line as well. My friend and I each tabled the same green tide player in a 1850 tournament. I used pure deathwing and he used gunline marines nearly the same as yours albeit more flamers. Only because he knew exactly what to do. Simply stated, learn the inside out tactics of your army and know the strengths/weaknesses etc. Its not the army, its the player.

People saying gunlines don't work are incorrect.

Gunlines can work in 5th, but not for every army.


you can't play 100% gunline, you must have a transport or 2 to take move out and contest/take points near the endgame.

Doesn't the Imperial fist special char have a decent shooting ability. No codex here but I remember thinking I would use him if I ever made a gunline army.

Doesn't the Imperial fist special char have a decent shooting ability. No codex here but I remember thinking I would use him if I ever made a gunline army.

He's 200 point of CC god that you want to use to get some re-rolls on bolters?

Lysander works well up close him and Pedro in sternguard spam can be great.

If you want gunline Marines you need Vulkan.

Even then though you don't want a static gunline. No army does that well these days. In 5th Ed where every one can assault you in turn 1 or come on from every angle to assault you,relying on a static gunline is tantamount to conceeding the game.

I never could understand that. Lysander is a terminator armoured, master crafted thunder hammer wielding stubborn relentless CC monster......who if you put with a tactical squad will make them reroll failed rolls to hit......

WHY!!!! WHY THIS STUPID RULE!!

Vulkan......you lose combat tactics (so no combat squadding so razorbacks are out) all flamers melta guns and multi-meltas twin-linked. Multi-meltas are alreaady twin-linked so ???

Problem with Vulkan is if you're doing gunline you don't want to be taking lots of melta, flamer or multi-melta. You want more long ranged stuff!

Pedro if you're taking Sternguard is a no brainer and very good for gunline with them, as they'll gain Hold The Line! and Inspiring Presence.

I'm actually (please don't shoot me) liking Sicarius as a choice for gunline.
You can give one tac squad Counter Attack, or Tank Hunters or Infiltrate.
YOu can use Rites of Battle to pass all leadership or morale tests using his stats.
You can re-roll dice to seize initiative at start of game. which means techically you can get another round of shooting in before he starts to move.

Vulkan......you lose combat tactics (so no combat squadding so razorbacks are out) all flamers melta guns and multi-meltas twin-linked. Multi-meltas are alreaady twin-linked so ???

You lose combat tactics not combat squading you can still combat squad. What twin-linked melta do you have? Multi-meltas are certainly not already twinlinked in any option I'm seeing in the codex.

Sicarius is never a good choice. Very expensive for not a lot of anything really. Counter attack will mean that tac squad pumps out as many attacks as my 5 man scout squad... (if they are charged) Hardly going to make or break your battle plan.

Tankhunters is great but in most instances again with a tac squad it is only 1 weapon that will be able to utilise it so again you'll rarely get much if any benefit. Whilst infiltrate with a tact squad in a gunline just gives your opponent a nice slingshot he can assault into and consolidate out of...

Corennus wrote:I'm liking that list a lot.....

But wouldn't it be simpler and easier to take a landspeeder Typhoon as a long range missile launcher?

I HAVE a landspeeder already

You can if you like but what's the golden rule? Take them in doubles. I haven't added that list up, what does it come too?

Oh, stuck on special characters? Read this: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2009/12/space-marine-special-character-tactica.html

Hope that helps buddy

ok.....having read your piece on HQ i've decided on a 1500 point Salamander style tryout army from the models i've already got:

HQ:

Vulkan He'stan

190

Command Squad w/ Rhino
Sergeant: Combi-Melta / Powerfist
Company Champion
Standard Bearer w/ Combi-Melta
Apothecary
Veteran w/ Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield

255

ELITES

Dreadnought
Heavy Flamer

115

Dreadnought
Heavy Flamer

115

Dreadnought
T-L Lascannon
Missile Launcher

145

TROOPS
Tactical |Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Chainsword / Combi-Melta
Flamer
Multi- Melta

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Chainsword / Combi-Melta
Flamer
Multi-Melta

FAST ATTACK

Landspeeder
Typhoon Missiles

90

Devastator Squad (10 man)
x 4 Missile Launchers

TOTAL 2000



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beauty of this list:

All flamers and meltas are twin-linked.

Command Squad's Thunder Hammer is master crafted, so a little less terrible if he misses with the first roll to hit (rerolls!!! REROLLS!!!)

Dreadnoughts don't have much ranged firepower (although I measured 24" other day and it's further than you think!) apart from Lascannon / ML guy

Tac squads.....not sure if to combat squad or not. I guess could form a flamer line......

Typhoon acts as sniper...also protecting Dev squad from infantry attack.

Devs......I could take 2 lascannons instead I guess, but i'm not going to

Change that power fist on the command squad so a thunder hammer so you're getting more from vulcan.

The dreas with multi meltas could do with drop pods; but drop pods suck. HOwever consider you start at least 12" into the board and the move 6" and then 24" range which gives a big 42" from melta, you could run the dread first turn and pop smoke too.

Tacticals are ok but do need rhinos or else the flamers won't get into range.

Typhoon isn't bad can hang around the devs.

Rest is ok mate, just get two rhinos and change that fist to a thunder hammer and you're cracking.

I would either change the Combi-melta's on the sergeants into flamers OR change the squads Flamer into a Melta.

Melta and flamers shouldn't ever be in the same squad. flamers usually only ever get 1 shot off per game because the squad inevitably gets charged and omnomnd by something and then the combi-melta got wasted when if it was a flamer it could have done something.