Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
dietrich wrote:Guilliman was pretty amazing. Not for the Codex Astares. Not for carving out the Ultramar sector, which has better living conditions than Terra. No, he's amazing for what he didn't do.
The Imperium had just driven back the traitor legions, and nearly 1/3 of the standing army had turned traitor. Of the remaining Legions, only the Iron Hands and Space Wolves had much of a force left. The Salamanders and Raven Guard had nearly been wiped out at the drop site massacre (and the Iron Hands had lost their veteran company and primarch). The Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and White Scars were all at Terra, and had taken massive loses, including Sanguinus' death. The Dark Angels were dealing with their own treachery, the destruction of their homeworld, and loss of their primarch. That pretty much leaves the Ultramarines, Space Wolves, and the primarch-less Iron Hands as remaining forces. The Ultramarines probably outnumbered all the remaining loyalist marines 5:1, possibly by even more.
And what does Guilliman do? He doesn't lay claim to the Emperor's Throne. He splits his own Legion in 30 or 40 pieces, pushes for the remaining Legions to do the same, all to prevent one man from wielding too much power. In other words, instead of trying to take over the Imperium (and based on he developed Ultramar, maybe he should have), he tries to ensure that he can't muster enough troops for a military coup. He saw the long picture and did what he thought was best for mankind in the long run, not what was best for him.
Ultramarines are put down because they're the 'cover army'. Ultramar is a wonderful corner of the universe. They're vanilla. But, I like them.
That is the first time an ultramarine supporter has convinced me of rowboat doing something good.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/06/05 07:19:51
Even if he did take down Alpharius, that still leaves Omegon. Although simply killing one could have seriously damaged or outright killed the other, they do share a soul. That or it would compress them both back into one body.
dietrich wrote:Guilliman was pretty amazing. Not for the Codex Astares. Not for carving out the Ultramar sector, which has better living conditions than Terra. No, he's amazing for what he didn't do.
The Imperium had just driven back the traitor legions, and nearly 1/3 of the standing army had turned traitor. Of the remaining Legions, only the Iron Hands and Space Wolves had much of a force left. The Salamanders and Raven Guard had nearly been wiped out at the drop site massacre (and the Iron Hands had lost their veteran company and primarch). The Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and White Scars were all at Terra, and had taken massive loses, including Sanguinus' death. The Dark Angels were dealing with their own treachery, the destruction of their homeworld, and loss of their primarch. That pretty much leaves the Ultramarines, Space Wolves, and the primarch-less Iron Hands as remaining forces. The Ultramarines probably outnumbered all the remaining loyalist marines 5:1, possibly by even more.
And what does Guilliman do? He doesn't lay claim to the Emperor's Throne. He splits his own Legion in 30 or 40 pieces, pushes for the remaining Legions to do the same, all to prevent one man from wielding too much power. In other words, instead of trying to take over the Imperium (and based on he developed Ultramar, maybe he should have), he tries to ensure that he can't muster enough troops for a military coup. He saw the long picture and did what he thought was best for mankind in the long run, not what was best for him.
Ultramarines are put down because they're the 'cover army'. Ultramar is a wonderful corner of the universe. They're vanilla. But, I like them.
That is the first time an ultramarine supporter has convinced me of rowboat doing something good.
Agreed, i don't like Ultras, but i must say that the split of the legions was a really wise decision! (maybe the only one )
PD: someone can explain me what means "Rowboat"? Girlyman is obvious
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/05 15:19:12
2000 foot sloging IG Cataphracts.... need to recalculate points.... Iron warriors waiting for more bucks with a better job
4th Panzerdivision Ost waiting for orders Reichmarschall!!
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Rowboat is nearly how his real name of Roboute is pronounced and its silly, just like Girlyman.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
2000 foot sloging IG Cataphracts.... need to recalculate points.... Iron warriors waiting for more bucks with a better job
4th Panzerdivision Ost waiting for orders Reichmarschall!!
Sanguinius is flawless in the canon (although his kiddies are a bit flying rodent gak insane), but he is hardly boring.
The Salamanders legion are marines that are actually, y'know, good guys. As opposed to guys who happen to be fighting on the good side. Yet they are a legion with a lot of popularity.
However, that said, I think that a beige personality is a problem for any character. Smurf is also an arrogant git in the canon writings.
Ah well, I suppose an irrational hatred for an imaginary person beats doing it for real. (Nb. Also a single historical target, I'd pop Charles De Gaulle's nuts with pliers)
Salamanders are interesting because they represent a new side of space marines, marines that fight for the sake of imperial citizens and not "For the Emperor!" and their own glory. Not only that, but physically, they have mutations that make them interesting and give them sort of an image.
Sanguinius is very close to flawless, and he IS boring. There are very few sanguinius fans out there. Oddly enough "died instantly for almost no cause at the hands of Horus" isn't seen as being the makings of a hero.
except he tore horus's throat out so not totally a failure, and not really boring either if you read your pre heresy/heresy fluff
"Sanguinius was eventually struck down by Horus, the only damage Sanguinius doing was creating a small dent in Horus' armour." This is about would be throat tearing, if I considered 1 casualty in a war of millions to be an epic victory. And yes, he is boring, to me. He's even more "perfect" than Rowboat, he's described as being incredibly beautiful, and revered by the entire imperium, he has literally, almost NO character flaws. And I say "almost" only because I can't think of any, if there wasn't any, then I wouldn't be surprised.
Also, the french aren't that bad in a war, they have something like 300 nuclear warheads and are 3rd in the world for military spending.
whalemusic360 wrote:
DBZ referance. Gotta be a special kinda nerd to get that one.
I'm actually an Closet Ultra Marines fan. There the guys you know you can call to get saved but you kinda don't want to lol. Cuz you know you'll hear about it.
Guardsmen- Wooo that was a tough battle we almost lost.
Ultramarine- Not while we're here, without us ya your fethed.
Guardsmen-...
Ultramarine- So who here wants to thank me first I'll start a line right....... here.
Sanguinius is flawless in the canon (although his kiddies are a bit flying rodent gak insane), but he is hardly boring.
The Salamanders legion are marines that are actually, y'know, good guys. As opposed to guys who happen to be fighting on the good side. Yet they are a legion with a lot of popularity.
However, that said, I think that a beige personality is a problem for any character. Smurf is also an arrogant git in the canon writings.
Ah well, I suppose an irrational hatred for an imaginary person beats doing it for real. (Nb. Also a single historical target, I'd pop Charles De Gaulle's nuts with pliers)
Salamanders are interesting because they represent a new side of space marines, marines that fight for the sake of imperial citizens and not "For the Emperor!" and their own glory. Not only that, but physically, they have mutations that make them interesting and give them sort of an image.
Sanguinius is very close to flawless, and he IS boring. There are very few sanguinius fans out there. Oddly enough "died instantly for almost no cause at the hands of Horus" isn't seen as being the makings of a hero.
except he tore horus's throat out so not totally a failure, and not really boring either if you read your pre heresy/heresy fluff
"Sanguinius was eventually struck down by Horus, the only damage Sanguinius doing was creating a small dent in Horus' armour." This is about would be throat tearing, if I considered 1 casualty in a war of millions to be an epic victory. And yes, he is boring, to me. He's even more "perfect" than Rowboat, he's described as being incredibly beautiful, and revered by the entire imperium, he has literally, almost NO character flaws. And I say "almost" only because I can't think of any, if there wasn't any, then I wouldn't be surprised.
Also, the french aren't that bad in a war, they have something like 300 nuclear warheads and are 3rd in the world for military spending.
someone didn't read the backstory of when captain Tycho was seeing Sanguinus death, for those unfamiliar it was in the last chapter approved and i believe a white dwarf artical during the third war for Armageddon. but back on topic of the ultra smurf, he is boring and he more or less caused a lot of the primarchs to turn to Horus' side Konrad and Perturabo aside. if i remember correctly from Horus Rising he was even disgruntled about Horus being named warmaster which in turn caused Horus stress, ergo the whole heresy could have indeed been The ultra smurf's fault
"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos
That's a pretty lame swipe at Guilliman. You could just as easily (and more plausibly) say that if the Emperor had made Guilliman Warmaster then there would never have been any heresy at all.
no there still would have been due to Logar, he'd have just found another pawn instead of Horus. my bet would be either the smurf or manus or the ever unlikely Sanguinius depending all on who could influence more of the primarchs to turn
"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos
I am not a g-man fan, but he would have organized everything almost perfectly. But still lacked the charisma to lead.
Lorgar has fallen pre-heresy, but the warpcreatures didn't actively plan with him.
N°1 target: Magnus (influence on psykers and research) As planned commander of the webway, he's not a bad choice.
N°2 target: Horus (diplomat and warmaster) fine to split the loyalists and try a military victory.
So who's N°3?
Or was there none?
Back to the Ultras.
IMO, these blue-clad space marines are the bureaucratic aspect of the Emperor.
Would be nice to know our Emperors plans for them.
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:*shrug*
He's no Leman Russ, is he?
(personal prejudice alert)
Russ is a man's man. A manly man, not afraid to speak his mind in a coarse fashion, & send back improperly cooked food in restaurants.
Were Rub-out Girlyman confronted with a poorly cooked steak, I imagine he'd just eat it anyway to keep up appearances & then write a strongly worded letter when he got home.
Necroman wrote:ROFLboute Gassyman is definitely one of Primarchs whose flaws influenced and brought about the heresy. He was proud, rigid, controlling, and zealous in his beliefs
Ahh, you mean that he was indeed a Primarch then?
No offense meant- just pointing out that a primarch who CANNOT be described in those terms is the exception to the rule - certainly, those same words can be ascribed perfectly to their father, the Emperor of Mankind himself.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:*shrug*
He's no Leman Russ, is he?
(personal prejudice alert)
Russ is a man's man. A manly man, not afraid to speak his mind in a coarse fashion, & send back improperly cooked food in restaurants.
Were Rub-out Girlyman confronted with a poorly cooked steak, I imagine he'd just eat it anyway to keep up appearances & then write a strongly worded letter when he got home.
I suspect that Russ' actual actions would be to eat the steak, drink a barrel of mead and punch out the cook for not doing it right, before walking out carrying away the manager's wife.
Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
and Daughter.
and sister.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
dietrich wrote:Guilliman was pretty amazing. Not for the Codex Astares. Not for carving out the Ultramar sector, which has better living conditions than Terra. No, he's amazing for what he didn't do.
The Imperium had just driven back the traitor legions, and nearly 1/3 of the standing army had turned traitor. Of the remaining Legions, only the Iron Hands and Space Wolves had much of a force left. The Salamanders and Raven Guard had nearly been wiped out at the drop site massacre (and the Iron Hands had lost their veteran company and primarch). The Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and White Scars were all at Terra, and had taken massive loses, including Sanguinus' death. The Dark Angels were dealing with their own treachery, the destruction of their homeworld, and loss of their primarch. That pretty much leaves the Ultramarines, Space Wolves, and the primarch-less Iron Hands as remaining forces. The Ultramarines probably outnumbered all the remaining loyalist marines 5:1, possibly by even more.
And what does Guilliman do? He doesn't lay claim to the Emperor's Throne. He splits his own Legion in 30 or 40 pieces, pushes for the remaining Legions to do the same, all to prevent one man from wielding too much power. In other words, instead of trying to take over the Imperium (and based on he developed Ultramar, maybe he should have), he tries to ensure that he can't muster enough troops for a military coup. He saw the long picture and did what he thought was best for mankind in the long run, not what was best for him.
Ultramarines are put down because they're the 'cover army'. Ultramar is a wonderful corner of the universe. They're vanilla. But, I like them.
Well said... very well said. I totally agree with this.
Nurglitch wrote:They may not be as obviously tainted as the Blood Angels, or the Space Wolves, but they're also more human and that same drive for perfection and order that drives them and drove their Primarch is what corrupted Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children.
Bravo!
I love Guilliman. I love Lord Macragge. The Ultramarines are awesome. The fact that so many of the twelve year olds who supposedly love them grow up to be sixteen year olds that supposedly hate them makes me appreciate them even more.
Bravo sir. It's nice to hear from some non-haters.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shaman wrote:
dietrich wrote:Guilliman was pretty amazing. Not for the Codex Astares. Not for carving out the Ultramar sector, which has better living conditions than Terra. No, he's amazing for what he didn't do.
The Imperium had just driven back the traitor legions, and nearly 1/3 of the standing army had turned traitor. Of the remaining Legions, only the Iron Hands and Space Wolves had much of a force left. The Salamanders and Raven Guard had nearly been wiped out at the drop site massacre (and the Iron Hands had lost their veteran company and primarch). The Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and White Scars were all at Terra, and had taken massive loses, including Sanguinus' death. The Dark Angels were dealing with their own treachery, the destruction of their homeworld, and loss of their primarch. That pretty much leaves the Ultramarines, Space Wolves, and the primarch-less Iron Hands as remaining forces. The Ultramarines probably outnumbered all the remaining loyalist marines 5:1, possibly by even more.
And what does Guilliman do? He doesn't lay claim to the Emperor's Throne. He splits his own Legion in 30 or 40 pieces, pushes for the remaining Legions to do the same, all to prevent one man from wielding too much power. In other words, instead of trying to take over the Imperium (and based on he developed Ultramar, maybe he should have), he tries to ensure that he can't muster enough troops for a military coup. He saw the long picture and did what he thought was best for mankind in the long run, not what was best for him.
Ultramarines are put down because they're the 'cover army'. Ultramar is a wonderful corner of the universe. They're vanilla. But, I like them.
That is the first time an ultramarine supporter has convinced me of rowboat doing something good.
Only thing I would argue with that is that the Ultramarines probably outnumbered the other Legions 1000:1 or more. Iron Hands, Raven Guard and Salamanders were almost completely extinct, the Legions at the Walls of Terra were decimated and even the Space Wolves just got through a big fight with the Thousand sons. Ultramarines spnet most of the Heresy trying to haul ass to earth. They shouldn't be critized for this as it was Horus's excellent planning that put the Largest Legion in remote corners of the Galaxy. Codex Asartes effected Guilliman a hundred times more than any other legion. This is evidenced that most Space Marines, over 60%, in the year 40,000 are in fact Ultramarines.
Guilliman held Humanity together in its darkest hour. He's the closest thing the Imperium has had to a 2nd Emperor and all he did with that Absolute Power is set up a system to protect Humanity from its Absolute Corruption.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/07 23:44:54
I don't get what is so boring about the Ultramarines. It's pretty well established that they are not perfect. The only thing that I can think of that is boring about them is the lame plays on Guilliman's name. Oh, wait that's just what's boring about the internet. Seriously, Rowboat Girlyman? That's not clever at all. If I wanted to make fun of Dark Angels, I wouldn't call their Primarch "Lion Sans Johnson." I would talk about how they're more self-absorbed than teenage girls. If I wanted to make fun of the Space wolves, I wouldn't call their Primarch "Lemon Rust." I would . . . actually there's nothing but awesome when it comes to Space Wolves. Anyway, the point is that the only people who hate Ultramarines are kids who don't want to be confused with little kids. I've yet to hear a solid point about why there is so much anti-Ultramarines sentiment. And don't give me that "they get all the coverage" bs, either. We all know that you can build any other Codex SM army out of C:SM5th perfectly well with plenty of Chapter-specific fluffiness.
Nurglitch wrote:They may not be as obviously tainted as the Blood Angels, or the Space Wolves, but they're also more human and that same drive for perfection and order that drives them and drove their Primarch is what corrupted Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children.
Bravo!
I love Guilliman. I love Lord Macragge. The Ultramarines are awesome. The fact that so many of the twelve year olds who supposedly love them grow up to be sixteen year olds that supposedly hate them makes me appreciate them even more.
Bravo sir. It's nice to hear from some non-haters.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shaman wrote:
dietrich wrote:Guilliman was pretty amazing. Not for the Codex Astares. Not for carving out the Ultramar sector, which has better living conditions than Terra. No, he's amazing for what he didn't do.
The Imperium had just driven back the traitor legions, and nearly 1/3 of the standing army had turned traitor. Of the remaining Legions, only the Iron Hands and Space Wolves had much of a force left. The Salamanders and Raven Guard had nearly been wiped out at the drop site massacre (and the Iron Hands had lost their veteran company and primarch). The Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and White Scars were all at Terra, and had taken massive loses, including Sanguinus' death. The Dark Angels were dealing with their own treachery, the destruction of their homeworld, and loss of their primarch. That pretty much leaves the Ultramarines, Space Wolves, and the primarch-less Iron Hands as remaining forces. The Ultramarines probably outnumbered all the remaining loyalist marines 5:1, possibly by even more.
And what does Guilliman do? He doesn't lay claim to the Emperor's Throne. He splits his own Legion in 30 or 40 pieces, pushes for the remaining Legions to do the same, all to prevent one man from wielding too much power. In other words, instead of trying to take over the Imperium (and based on he developed Ultramar, maybe he should have), he tries to ensure that he can't muster enough troops for a military coup. He saw the long picture and did what he thought was best for mankind in the long run, not what was best for him.
Ultramarines are put down because they're the 'cover army'. Ultramar is a wonderful corner of the universe. They're vanilla. But, I like them.
That is the first time an ultramarine supporter has convinced me of rowboat doing something good.
Only thing I would argue with that is that the Ultramarines probably outnumbered the other Legions 1000:1 or more. Iron Hands, Raven Guard and Salamanders were almost completely extinct, the Legions at the Walls of Terra were decimated and even the Space Wolves just got through a big fight with the Thousand sons. Ultramarines spnet most of the Heresy trying to haul ass to earth. They shouldn't be critized for this as it was Horus's excellent planning that put the Largest Legion in remote corners of the Galaxy. Codex Asartes effected Guilliman a hundred times more than any other legion. This is evidenced that most Space Marines, over 60%, in the year 40,000 are in fact Ultramarines.
Guilliman held Humanity together in its darkest hour. He's the closest thing the Imperium has had to a 2nd Emperor and all he did with that Absolute Power is set up a system to protect Humanity from its Absolute Corruption.
actually the ultramarines were ambushed by the word bearers, so they kinda did something instead of nothing. I'm looking at you dark angels.... and please don't anyone say the whole caliban thing as that happened during the scouring not the heresy as stated in the index astartes article
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/08 14:53:57
"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos
Manchu wrote:I don't get what is so boring about the Ultramarines. It's pretty well established that they are not perfect. The only thing that I can think of that is boring about them is the lame plays on Guilliman's name. Oh, wait that's just what's boring about the internet. Seriously, Rowboat Girlyman? That's not clever at all. If I wanted to make fun of Dark Angels, I wouldn't call their Primarch "Lion Sans Johnson." I would talk about how they're more self-absorbed than teenage girls. If I wanted to make fun of the Space wolves, I wouldn't call their Primarch "Lemon Rust." I would . . . actually there's nothing but awesome when it comes to Space Wolves. Anyway, the point is that the only people who hate Ultramarines are kids who don't want to be confused with little kids. I've yet to hear a solid point about why there is so much anti-Ultramarines sentiment. And don't give me that "they get all the coverage" bs, either. We all know that you can build any other Codex SM army out of C:SM5th perfectly well with plenty of Chapter-specific fluffiness.
Ya I would say that SWs can often be the most boring. They always do the right and predictable thing. They're more like your stereotypical good guys. Although one time William King did a pretty good job in one of his books (can't remember which one) of fleshing out Ragnar. There was a part where he had to euthnize some mutated Navigators and while he was putting bolts in their head he couldn't help but smile. He liked killing mutants even when they were his allies. The prejudice is heavily ingrained in all Fenrisians and he liked giving into it.
I believe he was doing his best to reunite and redistribute the resources of the Imperium following the wars. He was responsible for the Codex Astartes which if anything, was a desperate attempt to reorganize things so it couldn't happen again. Of course there have been other black crusades and tyranid hive fleets and ork waaghs and so on to deal with, but what I think gives the chapter its character is their rigid adherence to a warrior code. That's what makes them cool. I got no beef with the guy for being 'boring' I always pictured him as a kind of 'philosopher-warrior' kind of guy. Tempered, thoughtful, still a badass because he's a primarch and all, but not so angry as Leman, not so self absorbed as Lion'el, not so 'holier than thou' as Sanguinius. I think his boring studious meticulousness makes him interesting, and when I play my offshoot chapter "Doom Eagles" I still want to obey the Codex Astartes to the letter, just because it's cool.
I'm both chaotic and orderly. I value my own principles, and am willing to go to extreme lengths to enforce them, often trampling on the very same principles in the process. At best, I'm heroic and principled; at worst, I'm hypocritical and disorderly.
I agree. I think having your Primarch as the author of the most important piece of literature ever written is interesting. Some chapters take it so far the give it religious reverance. Guilliman would have hated that but that little wrinkle adds interest to the Ultramarine family mythos.
But that's what makes it cool. The Doom Eagles are so religious they are all depressed and convinced of their own fatalistic demise in the Emperor's service. That's just cool for story purpose. Why does such a doom-obsessed chapter exist (other than the easy paintjob) is to alude to the radical religious zeal that some have towards the Codex Astartes. Roboutte wrote what essentially became many chapters version of The Old Testament Moses laws of the 41st millenium. Shrouded in time, I'm sure it gets a bit misconstrued, religious zealousy being what it is. The chapters that straw from the codex or have flaws or don't exhibit rigid obedience are more popular with players because they get all the cool special rules and such, but I think the 'purist' mentality is cooler in story than just "BLAAAH I'm a viking! kill!" or "BLAAH I'm a vampire! BLOOD!" cliche one-sided stereotypes.
I'm both chaotic and orderly. I value my own principles, and am willing to go to extreme lengths to enforce them, often trampling on the very same principles in the process. At best, I'm heroic and principled; at worst, I'm hypocritical and disorderly.
)
waiting for more bucks with a better job
2000 
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords
7681 points Preheresy thousand sons
3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 
4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 
4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 
2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 
2280 points preheresy space wolfs 
1660 points Grey Knights 
628 points Sister of Battle 
2960 points adeptus mechanicus 
5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 
2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 
4600 points necrons 
960 points prehersy Salamanders 
6334 points Tau Empire 
20942 points tyranids 
8722 points eldar 
8508 points Chaos
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
