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Because you're not "just friends." I explained this, but it's probably a concept that is impossible for a high school aged dude to understand (I certainly wouldn't have). There is such a thing as "emotional intimacy." It's actually the majority of an adult relationship. It's things like making your significant other feel cared about, attractive, interesting, supported, secure, etc.
Kids in high school tend to view everything in (very specific) physical terms. Did they kiss? Ok, with tongue? Oh, ok... Etc. By all this logic, if you don't touch her naughty places, it's ALL GOOD! But it's not all good. If she's spending time with you, going to you for emotional intimacy, then you're not "just friends." You're doing something that's supposed to be between her and her guy.
I know you don't believe that, and you think I'm making up crappy rules, and I'm full of gak, but let me assure you, that IS actually how it works. Even though you don't want it to work that way, and even though you probably don't even have experiences to correlate to it working that way, it really, really, REALLY does work that way.
If he really cared about his girlfriend he wouldn't be an ass
False. He will be an ass because he's a high school kid and he doesn't know any better how to deal with his feelings. This girl is jerking him around, and you're (very) willingly enabling her.
Please stop blaming this guy. You're fabricating reasons how he's the bad guy, when in reality you came along and started stealing his girl's affections. He got angry, physical, and tried to stop it. Now this girl has eyes for you. Stop bullshitting yourself. If the problem is just that this guy is a jealous jerkface, then why does his girl now like you? Just coincidence? If the problem is him, she'd just stop liking him, and that's that. But that's not that. She now ALSO likes you. Not coincidence.
What really happened, is that you made a move, won her affection, and then he just tried to play catch up (too late) to get her back.
Please also note how this story is fueling your own emotional needs. You get to feel attractive, because this girl likes you. You get to feel dominant, cause you stole a girl and kicked a dude in the stomach. That's big time stuff for any male under 30 years of age. You're addicted to that, and you're not willing to accept any reality/suggestion that takes it away. You want me to tell you that the other guy is a dick, you're a heroic, suffering victim of his buffoonery, and it's probably totally ok, probably even your duty, to touch this girl in all of her naughty places.
Only it's not. If you want to be a REAL suffering hero, you'll cut the girl off, go apologize to the guy and promise him not to angle in on his girl. That would suck, wouldn't it? That's because being a hero is hard.
New rule: If you end up getting to do whatever you wanted to do in the first place, you're probably not being a hero.
Personally I think it's more sexually stimulating when the girl takes the pill, instead of slipping a condom on my winky dink.
That's for college. Or, hell, tell the girl to ask her parents to get on the pill. That should clear up any issues with being able to see her ever again.
So the moral of the story is befriend single girls.
(he's right by the way it's easy to become addicted or obsessed to this girl even though you're supposed to be "friends" you end up wanting more, but if she likes her current boyfriend more then eventually you'll stop being friends and become worst enemies. )
Doorknob? Nah. After some of the videos I've seen, I wouldn't mind being the big knob on top of a bedpost...
But really, the very idea that highschoolers would be learning anything shocking from what I posted is completely ludicrous. Indeed, I'd be shocked if the average middleschooler didn't know it.
I appreciate the bluntness, and am definitely giving serious thought to what you said. The situation has gotten very out of control considering the age (13-17 year old kids)
I'm thinking at this point the best thing might be for me to leave the group. I'll lose a friend, yes. Two or three in fact. But I doubt the girl will leave me alone if I ignore her, so I guess it's best to just get away from her completely, as you all suggested. In fact isolating her in that close of a setting will probably make her more aggressive, if you get my meaning. The b-friend has the entire group wrapped around his little finger and intentionally or not I've made myself out as a jerk to most of the people there. Plus, as stated, the fact that the g-friend (apparently) is showing interest in me despite what she first said will definitely rack up the tension, and I have no doubt if it gets bad enough this guy will have no problem mugging me with his buddies in a backalley. Sorry to keep making him out to be the jerk...never mind.
This has been a very hard, if briefly made, decision, but based on what you all have said it's best in the end. No way I can stay in the group and bring down the tension.
Anyway, once again, I truly do appreciate the bluntness. Made me mad as hell at first but you are right. And here's hoping this works out now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/08 01:49:43
"That's an impossible shot, Batman" -Robin
"That's a negative attitude, Robin" -Batman
I offer commission painting. See the Painting Service list in the Dakka Swap Shop for details.
Phryxis wrote:Because you're not "just friends." I explained this, but it's probably a concept that is impossible for a high school aged dude to understand (I certainly wouldn't have). There is such a thing as "emotional intimacy." It's actually the majority of an adult relationship. It's things like making your significant other feel cared about, attractive, interesting, supported, secure, etc.
Kids in high school tend to view everything in (very specific) physical terms. Did they kiss? Ok, with tongue? Oh, ok... Etc. By all this logic, if you don't touch her naughty places, it's ALL GOOD! But it's not all good. If she's spending time with you, going to you for emotional intimacy, then you're not "just friends." You're doing something that's supposed to be between her and her guy.
I know you don't believe that, and you think I'm making up crappy rules, and I'm full of gak, but let me assure you, that IS actually how it works. Even though you don't want it to work that way, and even though you probably don't even have experiences to correlate to it working that way, it really, really, REALLY does work that way.
Most relationships I have seen, are pretty freaking shallow. If this girl is going out with a total neanderthal, besides the fact that it presents other problems for their relationship; I can see it being totally reasonable for her to make new friends. I know many relationships that have broken up because of some insecure jerk thinking that his GF is fething every dude she hangs out with.
Insecurity, it makes for stupid boyfriends.
False. He will be an ass because he's a high school kid and he doesn't know any better how to deal with his feelings. This girl is jerking him around, and you're (very) willingly enabling her.
Please stop blaming this guy. You're fabricating reasons how he's the bad guy, when in reality you came along and started stealing his girl's affections. He got angry, physical, and tried to stop it. Now this girl has eyes for you. Stop bullshitting yourself. If the problem is just that this guy is a jealous jerkface, then why does his girl now like you? Just coincidence? If the problem is him, she'd just stop liking him, and that's that. But that's not that. She now ALSO likes you. Not coincidence.
You're a bit of an absolutist, aren't you. Funny.
Please also note how this story is fueling your own emotional needs. You get to feel attractive, because this girl likes you. You get to feel dominant, cause you stole a girl and kicked a dude in the stomach. That's big time stuff for any male under 30 years of age. You're addicted to that, and you're not willing to accept any reality/suggestion that takes it away. You want me to tell you that the other guy is a dick, you're a heroic, suffering victim of his buffoonery, and it's probably totally ok, probably even your duty, to touch this girl in all of her naughty places.
Well, that appears to be at least one opinion on this subject, that none of us have any actual connection to.
Only it's not. If you want to be a REAL suffering hero, you'll cut the girl off, go apologize to the guy and promise him not to angle in on his girl. That would suck, wouldn't it? That's because being a hero is hard.
I agree with you overall, mainly because the guy is in high school, and he doesn't really need any of this drama.
In terms of your little good guy/bad guy scenario, I think it plays a part, but not in such a crisp fashion. All you have done is to reverse what you are hearing from the kid. Not a particularly complicated trick, and all I really needed to know was that the OP was basically jumped by Mc-teenager the douche. In terms of the specifics of that encounter, I can only assume that what I have been told, is what actually happened.
Confronting someone, AFTER having a conversation with them about the problem, then assaulting them. Absolute douche. I have also known many examples of this breed of douche, but I don't assume that one side is completely correct.
Whatever, you're in high school Lord of Kaith, separate yourself from the drama. Have a conversation with this girl, and tell her that you are not comfortable with her BFs attitude. It is unfortunate overall, but hopefully she might be able to see that problem for herself. You're no older than 16, take it easy. To be clear, do not strike up a romantic relationship with Rapunzel, it is not likely to be a good one.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/06/08 02:37:54
You know what Lord of Kaith maybe you should be a "homewrecker" because finding a good relationship with a girl can be a hard task at times, just remember that there might be consequences though, such as horrible break-ups, loss of
Anyway, once again, I truly do appreciate the bluntness. Made me mad as hell at first but you are right. And here's hoping this works out now.
Cool, I'm glad it makes sense to you. In general, it's always good to double check yourself, and make sure that you're making decisions based on the long term, rather than obsessing over the thing (usually a girl) that happens to be right in front of you.
It's a tough balance to strike, but if you time things right, and demonstrate a real commitment to being right with everyone, you might come out with some friends.
I know many relationships that have broken up because of some insecure jerk thinking that his GF is fething every dude she hangs out with.
I'm not saying that this isn't the case. Maybe the BF is a bad guy. But exerting pressure on somebody else's relationship, whether they "deserve" it or not, whether it's going to last or not, isn't a moral thing to do.
It's like stealing a guy's car and saying "yeah, but he's a really risky driver, he was going to crash it eventually." Still isn't your car.
All you have done is to reverse what you are hearing from the kid.
Not really. I'm not saying the BF is the goodguy, and the OP is the bad guy. I'm saying that it doesn't matter who the BF is, and the OP needs to make sure he REALLY is the good guy. I think he's a good kid. I don't think he's malicious. I wouldn't call him a "bad guy." But he is having a negative impact on somebody else's relationship, and I don't think he wants to do that.
I'm not telling him who he is, I'm trying to tell him what it takes to be who he wants to be.
In terms of the specifics of that encounter, I can only assume that what I have been told, is what actually happened.
I don't doubt at all that the kid started a fight with him. I'm not saying OP is a liar, I'm saying that if somebody tries to take your woman, punching them in the mouth isn't out of line. And even if it is, it's entirely normal behavior for a high school kid, and in no way indicative of a "bad person." The kid had the decency to go one on one with him (and lose).
Phryxis wrote:I'm not saying that this isn't the case. Maybe the BF is a bad guy. But exerting pressure on somebody else's relationship, whether they "deserve" it or not, whether it's going to last or not, isn't a moral thing to do.
It's like stealing a guy's car and saying "yeah, but he's a really risky driver, he was going to crash it eventually." Still isn't your car.
No, it actually isn't similar. Women are not cars, not a complicated concept. Note, saying that kind of stuff is a fantastic way to piss people off.
I'm not telling him who he is, I'm trying to tell him what it takes to be who he wants to be.
That's a bit strange, IMHO. How in the high hell would you know what the OP wants to be? Did I miss that in one of his posts or something?
I don't doubt at all that the kid started a fight with him. I'm not saying OP is a liar, I'm saying that if somebody tries to take your woman, punching them in the mouth isn't out of line. And even if it is, it's entirely normal behavior for a high school kid, and in no way indicative of a "bad person." The kid had the decency to go one on one with him (and lose).
In my eyes, thats fair enough.
Tries to take your woman... again, that is the talk of a very insecure individual. The BF didn't walk into a room, to find his GF getting boned. It is a fine line between protective, and being a jerk. Assaulting people because your parents haven't gotten you a car yet, and your GF has conversations with other guys, is not normal behavior. Not in middle school, not in high school, and not in adult life. It is immature nonsense, that no one should be given a pass on.
I would like to hear the conversation where this BF convinced the school principal, that his actions were perfectly normal, and how no concern is really needed.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/06/08 03:06:53
I would like to hear the conversation where this BF convinced the school principal, that his actions were perfectly normal, and how no concern is really needed.
Unfortunately this youth group has no connection with the school, it started out as a monthly meeting for a few teens and grew from there, so we use the school's gym.
I'm not telling him who he is, I'm trying to tell him what it takes to be who he wants to be.
That's a bit strange, IMHO. How in the high hell would you know what the OP wants to be? Did I miss that in one of his posts or something?
I could be wrong, but I don't think he meant what I wanted to be specifically, just in general--to be a good guy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/08 03:13:16
"That's an impossible shot, Batman" -Robin
"That's a negative attitude, Robin" -Batman
I offer commission painting. See the Painting Service list in the Dakka Swap Shop for details.
Lord of Kaith, a quick tip, there are no good guys. There are people who are responsible, compassionate, and well meaning. Phryxis is engaging in a whole lot of percieved psychology here, and you are the one that really needs to make a decision about all of this.
The only solid advice I really have, is that you should avoid fighting the guy in the future. Unless you are actually in serious danger (as in bozo decides to attack you with a weapon), don't engage in a fight. If he does present a real threat to you, then it is probably best to avoid it at all costs, either way. Run if you have to, it isn't like youre going to feel like a punk because of it. Talk to some authority figures in this gym, and try and figure out what they can help you with in the future. Just talking to an adult about how this guy is messing with you, should be more than enough to give them a heads up... but I assume they already have their on on the BF as it is.
Cheesecat wrote:You do realize a lot of high school social life is drama and gossip.
That doesn't matter to me in the slightest. Life is crazy, don't let the nonsense drag you down. People that get in fights for stupid reasons, are usually going to end up with the short end of the stick afterward. Drama and gossip, is not harassment and assault... seriously.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/06/08 03:24:25
Seriously, dude, the girl is being ‘slowly driven away’ from a boy who starts fights with friends of hers over jealousy. ‘Slowly driven away…’ That’s not really an appropriate response but you didn’t consider that. Because we tend to ignore the failings of people we’ve taken a fancy to.
That said, it’s young love and the drama is half the appeal. At that age any relationship based on mutual trust will peter out after a couple of weeks because there’s nothing to talk about if there’s no drama. But if people are freaking out over it, well that must be real…
So carry on, saying you do/don’t like the girl, while she is ‘slowly driven away’ from a boy that’s beating up her friends. Do this once or twice more during highschool, and then maybe a couple more times after that. Just try to move past all that before you marry someone/buy a house together/have a kid.
Cheesecat wrote:Personally I think it's more sexually stimulating when the girl takes the pill, instead of slipping a condom on my winky dink.
Yeah, that herpes sensation works really well for me too.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Note, saying that kind of stuff is a fantastic way to piss people off.
Yeah, well, your posts have been full of fantastic ways to piss people off, but I'm not all that concerned, because my interest is helping the kid out, not garnering your approval.
I could be wrong, but I don't think he meant what I wanted to be specifically, just in general--to be a good guy.
I just.. quickly overlooked the posts but.. Have you spoken to her about it?
I mean, sure, perhaps she's blind as a bat and love the guy, but if he's gonna keep her from getting any new male friends her life is gonna get rotten pretty darn fast. It's up to her really what she values the most, that guy, or the ability to have friends of both genders. That also doesn't make it a question about her chosing between you and him, but him and males in general.
And in the meantime she tries to make up her mind about it (She's a girl, it might take a while), just keep kicking his arse whenever he sticks his nose in too deep, if that doesn't help, tell his parents again, if that doesn't work, tell the police(?), if that doesn't work and she has not yet made up her mind, leave her to her missery. As much as you'd want to help her, you can't make any such descisions for her.
Seriously, dude, the girl is being ‘slowly driven away’ from a boy who starts fights with friends of hers over jealousy. ‘Slowly driven away…’ That’s not really an appropriate response but you didn’t consider that. Because we tend to ignore the failings of people we’ve taken a fancy to.
That said, it’s young love and the drama is half the appeal. At that age any relationship based on mutual trust will peter out after a couple of weeks because there’s nothing to talk about if there’s no drama. But if people are freaking out over it, well that must be real…
So carry on, saying you do/don’t like the girl, while she is ‘slowly driven away’ from a boy that’s beating up her friends. Do this once or twice more during highschool, and then maybe a couple more times after that. Just try to move past all that before you marry someone/buy a house together/have a kid.
Cheesecat wrote:Personally I think it's more sexually stimulating when the girl takes the pill, instead of slipping a condom on my winky dink.
Yeah, that herpes sensation works really well for me too.
Well, preferably I sink my pink torpedo into girls I know and are honest about their sex life.
Feel free to point that out, I would actually like to know.
"You're a bit of an absolutist, aren't you. Funny."
"Women are not cars, not a complicated concept."
"again, that is the talk of a very insecure individual."
Snarky sarcasm, informing me I'm incapable of grasping uncomplicated concepts, calling me very insecure, and generally being obtuse.
All after the OP has already expressed that he took some value from my suggestions.
But whatever, I'm not worried about it, we don't need to threadjack over this.
Perhaps I jumped the gun, but it seemed like you were giving the guy a really hard time.
Seems to have worked out though, right?
Perhaps somebody more clever than me could find a way to say it a nurturing, retiring fashion. In this case, it doesn't seem to have been necessary.
Above all, the reason I don't consider my tone a problem is because it's what came to me when I imagined how I would have tried to get a point across to myself at his age.
What I find funny about this whole Ordeal is the fact that the OP is trusting us, a bunch of people of whom he knows nothing about other than we all play with little men, and he is asking us to help him make a decision based on ONE side of this..... ordeal. For all he knows, we are just messing around with him. I am not saying that is the case, but you can never be too sure.
Though It might just be the Andrew Ryan in me: "A Man chooses, a Slave obeys...."
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
Phryxis wrote:Snarky sarcasm, informing me I'm incapable of grasping uncomplicated concepts, calling me very insecure, and generally being obtuse.
Well I apologize since you took those remarks in that way. Snarky, yes; calling YOU insecure, stupid, nor being obtuse was my intent. I may have been a bit unclear, again, apologies.
But whatever, I'm not worried about it, we don't need to threadjack over this.
Sounds like a compromise to me.
Seems to have worked out though, right?
As much as any internet thread about high school dating could be.
Perhaps somebody more clever than me could find a way to say it a nurturing, retiring fashion. In this case, it doesn't seem to have been necessary.
Above all, the reason I don't consider my tone a problem is because it's what came to me when I imagined how I would have tried to get a point across to myself at his age.
No problem. This has been a mild internet argument, brought to you by the internet.
Slarg232 wrote:What I find funny about this whole Ordeal is the fact that the OP is trusting us, a bunch of people of whom he knows nothing about other than we all play with little men, and he is asking us to help him make a decision based on ONE side of this..... ordeal. For all he knows, we are just messing around with him. I am not saying that is the case, but you can never be too sure.
Though It might just be the Andrew Ryan in me: "A Man chooses, a Slave obeys...."
Again... brought to you by the internet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/08 03:54:53
Slarg232 wrote:What I find funny about this whole Ordeal is the fact that the OP is trusting us, a bunch of people of whom he knows nothing about other than we all play with little men, and he is asking us to help him make a decision based on ONE side of this..... ordeal. For all he knows, we are just messing around with him. I am not saying that is the case, but you can never be too sure.
Though It might just be the Andrew Ryan in me: "A Man chooses, a Slave obeys...."
Well, to be a bit snarky, for all you know, I could be messing with you. I could be ignoring every last word and saying I think you're all right to get you to shut up
I base my decisions not entirely on, as you guess, the possibly joking replies of a bunch of guys who play with minimen, but on what I've garnered from discussions with various parties. Parents, the leadership, buddies, you guys.
I also trust most of you well enough to (hopefully!) know that you wouldn't intentionally try to decieve me, even jokingly, in a matter this serious. Those who made jokes made sure it came across that way, with intelligent placing of smilies and certain words.
And to everyone, I said before, opinions are welcome, but at this point the case is pretty much closed. I'll give it a bit more thought and debate whether to leave the group indefinitely or let it cool off a few months (possibly quit over the summer) and try and have a nice long extensive talk after summer's over and see if it helps any.
"That's an impossible shot, Batman" -Robin
"That's a negative attitude, Robin" -Batman
I offer commission painting. See the Painting Service list in the Dakka Swap Shop for details.
Slarg232 wrote:What I find funny about this whole Ordeal is the fact that the OP is trusting us, a bunch of people of whom he knows nothing about other than we all play with little men, and he is asking us to help him make a decision based on ONE side of this..... ordeal. For all he knows, we are just messing around with him. I am not saying that is the case, but you can never be too sure.
Though It might just be the Andrew Ryan in me: "A Man chooses, a Slave obeys...."
Well, to be a bit snarky, for all you know, I could be messing with you. I could be ignoring every last word and saying I think you're all right to get you to shut up
I base my decisions not entirely on, as you guess, the possibly joking replies of a bunch of guys who play with minimen, but on what I've garnered from discussions with various parties. Parents, the leadership, buddies, you guys.
I also trust most of you well enough to (hopefully!) know that you wouldn't intentionally try to decieve me, even jokingly, in a matter this serious. Those who made jokes made sure it came across that way, with intelligent placing of smilies and certain words.
Fair enough. I was being serious, and my opinions were really my own.
Good luck with this. (assuming it's actually happening )
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
Cheesecat wrote:Well, preferably I sink my pink torpedo into girls I know and are honest about their sex life.
Everyone's honest about their sex life, then you get Hep-B. Up to you dude, but I’ve found there’s a difference between trust and blind faith.
Slarg232 wrote:What I find funny about this whole Ordeal is the fact that the OP is trusting us, a bunch of people of whom he knows nothing about other than we all play with little men…
Sbuh? What the hell kind of a board is this? I thought this was for wargames!?
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
If you really don't want trouble, I'd back off the girl... otherwise, honestly it does sound like you're looking for trouble.
You can't blame the guy for wanting to stand up to someone he perceives is "making a move" on his girlfriend... if that's not the case, give him/them space, and everything should be cool... You'd be the bigger man for it, imho.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/08 05:10:07
Cheesecat wrote:Well, preferably I sink my pink torpedo into girls I know and are honest about their sex life.
[/b]Everyone's honest about their sex life[b], then you get Hep-B. Up to you dude, but I’ve found there’s a difference between trust and blind faith.
Slarg232 wrote:What I find funny about this whole Ordeal is the fact that the OP is trusting us, a bunch of people of whom he knows nothing about other than we all play with little men…
Sbuh? What the hell kind of a board is this? I thought this was for wargames!?
That's why I said people I know and I have to trust this person. When in doubt I'll just use the condom.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/06/08 05:10:50
RiTides wrote:If you really don't want trouble, I'd back off the girl... otherwise, honestly it does sound like you're looking for trouble.
You can't blame the guy for wanting to stand up to someone he perceives is "making a move" on his girlfriend... if that's not the case, give him/them space, and everything should be cool... You'd be the bigger man for it, imho.
Hang on…
I think most of us have agreed that there’s likely a little more going on here than a platonic friendship, but that doesn’t mean the boyfriend is at all right in trying to beat someone up to protect his girl. Nor is the girl right for tolerating it on any level.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
sebster wrote:Everyone's honest about their sex life, then you get Hep-B. Up to you dude, but I’ve found there’s a difference between trust and blind faith.
Your penis... could melt off.
No. Seriously, it could melt and fall off... so...
StDs are no freaking joke. I wouldn't be keen to tackle the deep sea monster, without wrapping up first. It would make me very suspicious if a chick tried to convince me that she was clean. It takes all of 2 hours to get tested, and a few days to get results, I can deal with it. For my dignity, if nothing else.
It is a bit different when you are talking about a dedicated relationship, but getting tested 2-3 times a year, is still not beyond reason.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/08 06:11:13
sebster wrote:Everyone's honest about their sex life, then you get Hep-B. Up to you dude, but I’ve found there’s a difference between trust and blind faith.
Your penis... could melt off.
No. Seriously, it could melt and fall off... so...
StDs are no freaking joke. I wouldn't be keen to tackle the deep sea monster, without wrapping up first. It would make me very suspicious if a chick tried to convince me that she was clean. It takes all of 2 hours to get tested, and a few days to get results, I can deal with it. For my dignity, if nothing else.
It is a bit different when you are talking about a dedicated relationship, but getting tested 2-3 times a year, is still not beyond reason.
-- $k 
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's since 1995. 
