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jbunny wrote:The fact that FNP happens right away gives it an advantage over WBB.

Shooting, A ten man Necron squad gets shot and fails 3 saves. With WBB next turn they have a chance to get back up. With FNP they attemp to stay up right away. This could mean the difference having to take a moral test and the chance of fleeing.

Once fleeing a good player will walk you off the board. FNP prevents this form happening.

In close combat, due to lower Int than most units, FNP allows units to 1 fight back and therefore have the chance to cause wounds, and two lowers the number of wounds caused to your side. That could help prevent failing a moral check and being sweeped.

Say 8 models are killed in Close combat, you would be at a -8 on your LD test with WBB. With FNP 4 should stand back up, of those 4 you could an additional wound inflicted, so your new modifer would only be -3.

As far as the comment "Necrons should only be assaulted on your terms" That goes for every army now.

Necrons dont want to be in CC. They dont want to have extra attacks in CC due to FNP. I dont see how people cant understand this. Necrons in CC are god awful. Failing morale and falling back is better than being slaughtered in CC, at least you have the chance to regroup and as acidchalk stated im sure necrons will have a rule in the new dex that counters the problem of running off the board. PLUS you completely ignore the benefits of getting another WBB with the portal.

My friend plays necrons and his 2500 point ard boyz list runs 3 monoliths and his list rocks at objective based games. You put a monolith and a squad of warriors near an objective and its very hard to kill all of them. This is due to so many WBB rolls with portal.

That's an idiotic comment. Most of the time when you lose combat, with I2, you will be overrun and killed outright-- no WBB for you.

And as for the poster regarding having all 10 in a squad gunned down-- no WBB if there's not another unit of the same type (or a tomb spyder) within range.

FNP is hands down better. Of course Necrons don't want to be in HtH-- but, it WILL happen, and when it does, FNP is VASTLY superior to WBB.

kartofelkopf wrote:That's an idiotic comment. Most of the time when you lose combat, with I2, you will be overrun and killed outright-- no WBB for you.

And as for the poster regarding having all 10 in a squad gunned down-- no WBB if there's not another unit of the same type (or a tomb spyder) within range.

FNP is hands down better. Of course Necrons don't want to be in HtH-- but, it WILL happen, and when it does, FNP is VASTLY superior to WBB.

Sweeping advance is only a problem in the first round of combat when you are charged. Second round of combat take WBB rolls, portal out, rapid fire and move on. Perfectly legit tactic, just requires maneuvering. Yes, its true, you arent going to win with necrons if you arent good with tactics. Necrons require a lot of planning in advance and this plan has to be flexible and all encompassing. Sounds harder than it really is.

And if you dont have another squad, tombspyder or resorb within range, then thats your fault for not covering all your bases.

FNP is VASTLY inferior to WBB.

mrwittwer wrote:
Sweeping advance is only a problem in the first only round of combat when you are charged.

FTFY. With Necrons as they stand, you WILL lose combat with just about anything that charges you... and at I2, you will probably be overrun.

So, yes, sweeping advance is only a problem on the turn you're charged... the problem is, it's likely the only turn that unit will see in CC.

FNP is VASTLY inferior to WBB.

Except for all the times it isn't... which is all the time.

The rules are almost identical in their effect- namely, preventing a model from being removed on a 4+. The only major difference is when they are applied- FNP happens immediately, which prevents you from having to take Morale checks against shooting, allows you to swing back in HtH, and lowers the chances of losing a combat.

All the things you cite as an advantage of WBB (porting out of combat and a second roll) are the result of another unit entirely-- the Monolith. If WBB ----> FNP, I imagine the monolith will still affect Necrons in a similar manner. Even if it doesn't, the advantages of FNP (immediacy, lowered number of morale checks, lowered risk of losing combat) outweigh the benefits of WBB (umm... still not sure what they are).

Kevin949 wrote:1. Nice way to act like a jackass, great show on your character.

2. Who said I did? You? So I like to read about what others post up on the army I play, so what. I never said I actually cared. Now you're just trying to twist reality to make things seem different from the truth.

3. I don't care one bit about what you said regarding anyone else at all, ever. Nice job hiding behind the common "oh you so tough on the internet" comments though.

4. I'm quite capable, thank you, and pretty sure I have a much better grasp than you seem to think I do but you seem compelled to debase yourself to personal attacks against me. So keep it up, big guy.

CC should always happen on the necrons terms, if it doesn't then your strategy didn't pan out. Happens to all of us.

5. Yes, you did. It was insinuated from you statement.

And since you felt compelled to resort to personal attacks, I find it humorous that you edited for spelling and spelled "spelling" incorrectly.

1)Personal name calling is a direct violation of Dakkas policy on conduct. Note- I am letting this slide because I never hit the mod button, but there are others who may. you might want to watch out unless you get yourself into trouble.

2)Your actions speak for you. If you didn't care you would't have so meticulously replied to my posts point for point. Your posts seem to indicate a certain level of caring and emotional investment. To me, your comments are coming across as net rage because only anger would blind someone so thouroughly to the advantages of the proposed change.

3)I'm not hiding, I'll be right here to call you on it, anytime you want to trash talk those I know and you don't. What I don't know is you as a credible source of information other than the statements made in your posts have shown.

4) What personal attacks? My replies have been based upon your statements of the problems with a switch to FnP. The unit matchups you mentioned would indicate a certain level of tactical inexperience. Again, your post comes across as an emotional response rather than a rational realization that your examples were flawed. At that point I gave the same bit of advice I would give to anyone who seems to be both easily angered and is unable to grasp basic concepts of unit match ups.

5)Yes, I insinuated that you "might", never "assumed" you would. See how that works.

BTW, this is priceless. Yes, I mispelled a word, but the word I mispelled was not the word you indicated. You claimed that I mis-spelled the word "spelling" but in fact I mis-spelled the word "sentence". Which is more embarrassing, a doubled letter from an old keyboard or using the wrong word in your attempted slam that results in a Fail?

Kevin949 wrote:

kartofelkopf wrote:Wow...

So, in HtH, FNP and WBB are identical in when they can be used.... except WBB happens later, so the unit could be overrun or at least lost combat before WBB can happen.

So, point FNP.

At range, WBB can be used against AP1/2 weapons... which is cool, except most ap 1/2 weapons are also s8+ (railgun, meltagun, lascannon, etc...). The only advantage WBB has is against Plasma fire... so... yay, I guess?

Which is a more common sight on the battlefields of 5e 40k? HtH combats, or plasma-heavy armies? Given that EVERYONE runs Melta now, that advantage, limited to begin with, shrinks even further.

This is all really besides the point, as the main issue was the one first addressed-- FNP happens IMMEDIATELY. And, since most people run rez orbs anyways (and assuming they function roughly the same next edition), the sole advantage WBB currently has is lost with an orb around.

Now, also consider the needing a unit within 6" and WBB is still the clear loser.

Why do people oppose change so vehemently?

I don't oppose change, I just don't feel that FNP is the answer. If that's what they end up with, then so be it. It would just be nice if they didn't turn into BA pt. 2.



*Edit*
And with that, I'm out of this conversation. I'm not continuing to debate this with immaturity abound.

This comes across as an unprovoked attack upon kartofelkopf's maturity level when all he has done here is disagree with you. If your upset with me then deal with me or complain about me to the mods but don't lash out at others because your angry with me. It only serves to discredit you.

Just make pariahs count as necrons. Pariahs have potential to be fething awesome. They can be like terminators, or something.

kartofelkopf wrote:

mrwittwer wrote:
Sweeping advance is only a problem in the first only round of combat when you are charged.

FTFY. With Necrons as they stand, you WILL lose combat with just about anything that charges you... and at I2, you will probably be overrun.

So, yes, sweeping advance is only a problem on the turn you're charged... the problem is, it's likely the only turn that unit will see in CC.

Well i dont know what exactly is charing your warriors, or why you havent softened up the squad before it charges you? That would be just silly to let full strength squads charge your only troops when the main power in necrons is their shooting. But its hard to argue with someone who doesnt understand this, so ima let you enjoy your CC warriors.

FNP is VASTLY inferior to WBB.

Except for all the times it isn't... which is all the time.

The rules are almost identical in their effect- namely, preventing a model from being removed on a 4+. The only major difference is when they are applied- FNP happens immediately, which prevents you from having to take Morale checks against shooting, allows you to swing back in HtH, and lowers the chances of losing a combat.

All the things you cite as an advantage of WBB (porting out of combat and a second roll) are the result of another unit entirely-- the Monolith. If WBB ----> FNP, I imagine the monolith will still affect Necrons in a similar manner. Even if it doesn't, the advantages of FNP (immediacy, lowered number of morale checks, lowered risk of losing combat) outweigh the benefits of WBB (umm... still not sure what they are).

with proper wording sweeping advance wont even be a problem.

So... if they change the main rules, Necrons will be playable?

Aweosme...

I want necron monowheels.

make it so you cant sweep crons

thats our house rule and it makes them very fun to play against

And they shall know no fear = Answer to the main necron problem

Well in fact, that sounds about damn right.

Personally, if there was ever ANY #$%%&^!!! army in the game that should have had combat tactics and ATSKNF... it's the friggin necrons.

Some friends and I have actually played with several variants of the rules (usually just 2-3 big changes at most-- nix on the C'tan).

To the point however, yes, in the two games I've played with those rules they completely shifted the nature of combat. I can tell you right now that big hearty squads of 20 warriors were simply made of win under that scenario.

Basic rule was, if they didn't make the runner, yank em' out with the 2 monoliths we had in play. It worked like magic.

Of course, that led us to trying it out with just fearless and that was simply awesome.

Let me frame it for you--) interchanging waves of troops relieving the stress from each other whilsts recuperating, meanwhile the Monoliths continue to explode on everything within 12" with abandon.

Good times.

Still, in sum, the big universl changes I'd like to see actually are WBB shift to FNP, however, I'd like it flatly modified to ignore AP1,2, etc. or otherwise for all Necron to recieve a 5+ cover save from a shroud/ maybe a 6+ invulnerable save.

Something to offeset it you know... still, that's pure wishlist. Realistically, we'll be lucky as all hell if they properly mod the Orbs and 'Liths to work with FNP.

Moving on, I also support the shift to Rending.
It fits what Gauss is actually supposed to do, same for the Disruptor Claws really... So I'd like to see Flayed Ones get Rending for melee...

On that note, I think Flayed Ones should be the troop choice no.2 for the Necron. Same point cost, they're basically a melee variant of the warrior anyway with just a spice bit more oomph in deploymeny option and the terror visage shtick going on. I like all that as it is. What I think they need to DO however is increase the max size of the unit from 10 to 20. Two units to the sum of 40 flayed for 700 some odd points, all with FNP & Rending is NO JOKE AT ALL.

Tried one game w/ Necron Fearless, Rending, and Flayed Ones as Troop w/ modified Max unit size.

It was a glorious slaughter of the Orks that day, let me tell you.

As for all this theory that they're going to bump all the stats by one?... eh, I doubt it, but we'll see.

OHHH, one last thing. I think the Monolith should definitely get an orbital curb stomp aka the Tyranid Mawloc.

As for a Necron' C'tan in APOCALYPSE.. well, my friends and I have crafted a rule set of our own which we're still tweaking. Mostly, it's so High for a Superheavy because we liked the concept of a living god... .. .. . and that given the C'tan will go OM NOM NOM NOM the second they see another of their own kind, you can only ever have 1 Super Hvy C'tan in play at any time. I also posted this in another thread, but I'm hoping for some feedback here as well.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whereas other C’tan were content merely with their newfound forms and casual manipulation of the material universe whilst satiating their varied appetites for slaughter, soul-energy, and worship, the Void Dragon reveled in its deliverance from ignorance and the development of self awareness aside knowledge. From its Nectrontyr subjects and later, combat with the Old Ones and their ethereal minions, the Void Dragon learned the secrets of science and the warp. Taking such knowledge and combining it with its own mastery of the materium, the Void Dragon unlocked nearly all the secrets of the universe, making it a true living god amongst all mortals. As such, when the Old Ones released their psychic spawn upon the universe and the C’tan who had been fighting amongst themselves for sport found their armies being turned aside like the Necrontyr before them, they turned to the greatest mind amongst their number to lead them back to victory—the Void Dragon. United once more, the C’tan lent their strength and resources to the Void Dragon as it began to utilize its arcane knowledge of the materium and immaterium alike to cast a veil across the stars to seal off the universe from the warp-spawned magicks of the immaterium forever, guaranteeing C’tan dominion. With such force behind the effort, the success of the ward was merely a matter of time, however, like many great projects before and since, its completion was never to come to be.

As great as the Void Dragon’s mastery of the materium was, so too was the Deceiver’s of the mind and perception--even amongst its own kind. While at first eager to aid the Void Dragon, over time the Deceiver became keenly aware of the Void Dragon’s superior mastery over the technologies controlling all their Nectronyr slaves, and that just as much as the ward would seal the denizens of the warp beyond any corner of realspace, it would equally seal the C’tan within—a universe wherein none could rival the power of the Void Dragon or its forces. Thus, when the Enslavers, the ruinous powers of Chaos, erupted outward across the cosmos the Deceiver was quick to take advantage of the situation and convince its fellows to abandon the Great Ward and instead choose to entomb themselves, to wait out the psychic infestation and await a day when the universe could be culled once more. So it was, that the Void Dragon was forced to lay aside its work without the added power of its brethren.

Bitter and incensed, the Void Dragon warned its ilk against the scheming of the Deceiver, but the words fell on deaf ears. Left in defeat and swearing vengeance for their abandonment of the project, the Void Dragon marshaled the bulk of its forces and retreated to an outer arm of the galaxy to entomb itself and servants. However, before it lay to rest the embittered ancient entity bid a series of commands to its most trusted followers and guardians—to plant a poison amongst the feast for the enslavers whenever a suitably mutable race should emerge and lay the groundwork for their own God’s rise to power via the completion of his masterwork, this time absent the assistance of his fellow C’tan.

The full consequence of this action is still yet unknown, but what can be assured is that however far the Deceiver schemes into the future, the Chaos Gods twist and plan, and the Eldar sift through sand and time for clues and dreams of what may come, the Void Dragon remains more patient, more calculating, more vast, more ancient , and more alien an intelligence than they may ever conceive. What thoughts lurk within its mind none can ponder and what designs it may have put into instrumentality none can know.

Now, that it is free once more not only from its entombment but the shackles that the Immortal God Emperor of Man hath wrought for it, what hope does the cosmos have? How are any to prevail against an entity that has walked atop the stars and warred in the time before time, when the gods themselves were not yet children at its feet??



Void Dragon 3000 pt v.1.5

WS 7 BS 7 S D T 9 A 9 W 10 I 6 Ld 10 Sv 2+/3+

SPECIAL RULES:::

Gargantuan Creature

Above All Others:
The C’tan will tolerate each other’s presence when needed as they regain their strength, but in front of their amassed forced there can be no compromises.

In any Necron Force in a Warhammer 40K Apocalypse Battle, only one C’tan with the Gargantuan Creature special rule may be played.


Wings of the Abyss:
The Void Dragon’s material construct soars on massive, vorpal wings as black as night. It’s said gazing upon them is like looking into the dead, dark space between the stars.

The Wings of the Abyss allow the Void dragon to move 18” in its movement phase, ignoring any intervening terrain/models.


Lord of the Void:
The Void Dragon’s namesake is no longer merely an adjective in respect to the past method of his imprisonment by the Immortal God Emperor. Given time, interest, and incentive to both influence the outer world as well as eventually free itself, the C’tan mastered those powers which would cause a schism in between the material and immaterial realms. They are no threat to him.
The Void Dragon is immune to the effects of vortex weaponry (i.e. vortex grenades, missiles, etc.) as well as any other special abilities which would remove him directly from the table and game.


Destroyer of Worlds:
Such is the unnatural power of the living god in the material plane that no force can stay his wrath.

In addition to his attacks counting as being dealt from a D strength weapon, no invulnerable saves or other types of save may be used against wounds from the Void dragon.


Wrath of the Void Dragon:
Such is the anger of the Void Dragon since the indemnity of his imprisonment that the mere death and consumption of the soul-energy of his foes is insufficient. To assuage his wrath he must remove the very memory of their existence from the material plane.

Any models reduced to 0 wounds or vehicles destroyed by the Void Dragon are not removed as casualties or left as wrecks or craters on the table, but instead are removed from the game entirely. Any counters, bonuses, abilities, etc, the enemy gained from their presence in their force whilst alive is removed, and no such thing may be gained from their death (i.e. Faith points, Unique space marine chapter tactics, etc…). Any special wargear, assets, and items on or with their person likewise disappear into the void. Kill points/victory points earned by the removed unit remain however. Likewise, kill points/victory points earned by their destruction also remain.


Manifestation of a Living God:
The sheer power and presence of a near fully empowered C’tan makes all its foes, mortal and god alike think twice before affronting him in combat.
All models and units wishing to assault the Void Dragon must pass a leadership test to do so. Fearless units must also pass this test, however, if they fail they may choose to assault any other legal unit within their assault range. For the purposes of this test, vehicles with a weapon skill assaulting the Void Dragon count as having Ld 10. Super Heavy Vehicles and Monstrous creatures may re-roll the test.


March of the Entombed:
Recently unearthed from their rest and eager at sight of their God to fly to war, the Necron Lords loyal to the Void Dragon have ordered their forces to cease their careful, hit-and-run tactics and instead have switched to Necrontyr siege tactics more suitable for the prolonged, inter-galactic war soon to come.

The Necron Phase Out rule is suspended this game. Additionally, all Necron Models on the table are Fearless for as long the Void Dragon remains alive.


Resurrection Core:
Unlike other C’tan who merely appropriated the ancient technologies of the Necrontyr, the Void Dragon made them his own and as such his mastery of them is absolute.

All Necron units on the table may roll their WBB as if they were near a resurrection orb for as long as the Void Dragon remains alive. Additionally, Necron units within 48” of the Void Dragon may act as if they were within 12” of a Tomb Spyder for the purposes of WBB.


Architect of the Great Ward:
Utilizing its vast knowledge and arcane mastery of the materium, the Void Dragon manipulates reality itself to reject the presence of the warp and its ilk.

All enemy units within 48” of the Void Dragon have their leadership reduced to 7. Units Making Ld tests for Psychic Powers and abilities will roll 3 dice and take the 2 highest. Special Abilities which would conflict with this effect are nullified by the awesome power the Void Dragon exerts on reality itself. All psychic abilities which would affect the Void Dragon were he a normal model automatically fail and cause a perils of the warp test which must be re-rolled if successful.
Units of Demons/Daemons with a model within 12” of the Void Dragon find themselves especially susceptible to his manipulations as their very essence is shorn from them. Any such units moving, running, or assaulting must take a leadership test. If they fail, all models in the unit are considered to have failed a dangerous terrain test.



Gaze of the Abyss:
If the Void Dragon is not locked in assault during the shooting phase, it may instead turn its attention and mastery of the material universe towards corrupting the technologies it has spent millennia whispering the secrets of across the cosmos.

The Void Dragon may take the standard large template and place it over any vehicle model(s) within its line of sight. All vehicle models underneath the template are subsequently held under the control of the Void Dragon for the Shooting Phase. In this Shooting Phase, the controlling player may pivot the vehicles towards their targets, but vehicles must shoot as if they had moved 6” regardless of whether or not they did due to the crews fighting against the influence of the Void Dragon. At the beginning of their next owners turn, models which were controlled by the Void Dragon Must take a Leadership test to shake the influence of the C’tan. If they fail they remain under the thrall of the Void Dragon and may not move or shoot that turn. Instead, in the Void’s Dragon’s next shooting phase they will continue to fire as directed.
Super Heavy Vehicles which would be the target of this ability may take a Leadership test at Ld 10 to resist this power.


Death of a Star God:
Like all C’tan, the true essence of the Void Dragon is an ageless energy being which feeds on the life of stars. Their mortal form of writhing, living metal is but a temporary coil to house the true awe of their form. When such a form is released from its host however, the result is an explosive spectacle not soon to be forgotten.

When the Void Dragon is reduced to 0 wounds, its essence is freed and a cataclysmic explosion of epic proportions ensues. All models within 4 D6 inches of the Void Dragon take a Strength D hit. All terrain pieces within range of the explosion are removed from the table as the force of the blast literally turns them to flat glass. Units with models which were not on the floor level of the terrain pieces are cast into the air in the explosion and scatter 2 D6 inches regardless of a hit using the deep strike rules.

All Necron Units on table with a Ld characteristic must immediately take a Leadership test.

Has anyone play tested the necrons with the stubborn USR yet?

I think you'll find that change alone will lead to much more interesting battles.

*sigh* Yeah... we tried it one time. Same deal as Fearless for squads of 20 being all kinds of null-combat awesome, but at the same time, (we had multiple watchers), there were complaints about it being over-powered.

We had units being reduced to 1-2 men via a high power all power-sword-melee equiv, squad and then passing the Ld test, saving an assload of WBB, then the Monoliths basically put them right back to proper, spread out walking , shot, reduced their number, and then served as a big melee wall only to absorb less hits in combat each cycle over and over again.

In other words, yeah, it was all kinds of cool.. but a little too cool.

Abaddon + 4 LC termies shouldn't be stuck in unending combat-cycles with a basic necron troop.

Both have selling points. Personally though sucking in H2H and living to fight another round in H2H where I still suck sounds like a minus for FNP. I think Fearless (bad points) or Stubborn (perhaps too powerful) solve the morale run away from combat issue much better than FNP.

Best point to FNP is that it is happening immediately. I do miss the WBB immunity to high strength and the potential double WBB of porting through a monolith.

If they go to FNP I hope that Monoliths, Res Orbs and Spyders will produce some type of modifications to it so they maintain a synergy with the core troops.

Don't we all? lol

@The Dragon: Looking at your rules for the void dragon, they seem ridiculously over powered. When hes is on the table all necrons always get their WBB? That is really a big army wide modifier to give out, not to mention this thing might have the best statline i have ever seen. Personally, i think its all too much. Its only 500 points more than a warlord titan, and i consider this vastly superior to a warlord titan. T9 with a 3++ and 10 wounds. What will this thing ever die too?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@The Dragon: Looking at your rules for the void dragon, they seem ridiculously over powered. When hes is on the table all necrons always get their WBB? That is really a big army wide modifier to give out, not to mention this thing might have the best statline i have ever seen. Personally, i think its all too much. Its only 500 points more than a warlord titan, and i consider this vastly superior to a warlord titan. T9 with a 3++ and 10 wounds. What will this thing ever die too?

Eh, you think so? I've already had it brought to its knees 3-4 times in different games with just massed missiles, lascannons, etc.

Like I said, everybody always goes OOP!!! But Like I said, it's 3,000 pts.

I originally played it for 3,500 but after the first 3 times it got deuced out by T2-4 and that more often than naught it takes a bunch of Crons with it, we figured it needed to be a little cheaper?

Let me ask you something. Which would you realistically rather face? this or 5-6 Baneblades.

Trust me, this guy only ever sees 6000+ games and it's not easy to keep him alive. But, hey , I posted it here to talk about him and refine. I'd still play him for 3,500.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ex: 20 regular SM termies can pop this boy's clogs in a heartbeat with range support after they're creamed.

Why?

oh yeah, sure maybe I can lay into 1 unit hard 1 time, but then welcome to I 1 where the hits keep on coming.
BTW: Typically, I get 4-6 S-D blows through even hitting on a 3+.

The Dragon wrote:*sigh* Yeah... we tried it one time. Same deal as Fearless for squads of 20 being all kinds of null-combat awesome, but at the same time, (we had multiple watchers), there were complaints about it being over-powered.

We had units being reduced to 1-2 men via a high power all power-sword-melee equiv, squad and then passing the Ld test, saving an assload of WBB, then the Monoliths basically put them right back to proper, spread out walking , shot, reduced their number, and then served as a big melee wall only to absorb less hits in combat each cycle over and over again.

In other words, yeah, it was all kinds of cool.. but a little too cool.

Abaddon + 4 LC termies shouldn't be stuck in unending combat-cycles with a basic necron troop.

You wanna talk about tough, try playing the CSM battle mission Dark Parade, I think it was called. My buddy and I played that mission this past weekend (though he was tau, just so ya know. We rolled at random) All non-vehicles when wiped out go back into reserve at full strength, all non-fearless units have stubborn and preferred enemy. It was like I didn't even have to worry about WBB or phase out and it felt like I was playing black templar as I cut a swath with my lord+immortal pseudo retinue.

I find it a little humorous how a simple change, such as adding stubborn, makes people go from calling an army non-competitive to saying they're overpowered. Would they have preferred you to have FNP instead of WBB (with res orb/monolith providing same benefit for FNP that they do for WBB)? Because then that would have a little nuts where you get all your attacks from the saved FNP rolls AND you get to port out and so on...personally though, I still say stubborn is a better fix and seems to fit more in line with necrons fluff wise. In so much that they aren't fearless but they don't crack either, I mean hell they have a frikken eater of worlds or whatever on their side, why would they be afraid of a little daemon?

I think you just pointed out the craziness of Stubborn necrons right there, lol

Also, I've just run more calculations.. about 10 times.

30 BS 4 lascannons in 6,000pts of play (they're going to be there!)

They always take Void Dragon down by turn 4 at the latest. Usually, 7/10 times it goes down by T3. 1 time it fell T2!!!

Alright if, as suspected, they switch to FNP how about these changes to incorporate some item/abilities from before with WBB:

Res Orb/Spyder in range of unit at the time of the test: Removes doubling strength or AP 1-2 negating FNP. (Think PW, PF etc should still be final but could try it once,)

Monolith - monolith in range (12") can designate one unit to get FNP rerolls for the entire enemy turn.

All necrons get Fearless - Still means they get hosed in HTH but not because they get overrun. It would mean all necron units are CC pillows and with Monoliths could still
be ported out of CC. Think this is superior to stubborn and fits the fluff better. They don't care so if 5 LC terminators rip a necron unit apart they would just be methodically trying to end the life of their target not trying to preserve themselves and certainly not running away to preserve themselves.

The Dragon wrote:I think you just pointed out the craziness of Stubborn necrons right there, lol

Also, I've just run more calculations.. about 10 times.

30 BS 4 lascannons in 6,000pts of play (they're going to be there!)

They always take Void Dragon down by turn 4 at the latest. Usually, 7/10 times it goes down by T3. 1 time it fell T2!!!

LoL well the preferred enemy had MUCH to do with it honestly. More so than stubborn. Should be playing tomorrow so maybe I'll ask my buddies if we can try out adding the stubborn rule army wide.

In My fan dex that I have half made I Based the Necrons arround DOW I Dark Crusade and the new rules in 5th ed E.G. USRs. My Dex may of made them OP vs MEQ or may have made them balenced vs MQ depending on your prepective the rules i gave them as standard is follows.

"We will be back rolls"
Has been removed instead all Necrons get Feel No Pain
Note: Before QQ see some of the wargear. (Hint: Res Orb, Tomb Spider)

"Phase Out Rule"
has been removed.

Necron Rule
Has Feel No Pain, Relentless and Fearless USRs.

Resurrection Orb
Necrons within 6" of the Lord allways get their Feel No Pain Roll.
Example (Wounds caused by AP1, Ap2 Weapons, Power Weapons, Instant Death
Ignores saves ETC, read USR for more details)

Tomb Spider
Adds +1 to the roll on the dice for Feel No Pain within range per Tomb Spider

Tomb Spider are MC so can be fired at so :p.

another possiblely Broken rule change is Gauss Weapons

Gauss
Any roll to hit of 5 causes a wound, Armour Saves apply as normal.
Any roll to hit of 6 causes a wound, Armour Saves can not be taken.

Any roll of 5 to hit a vehicle will cuase a glancing hit.
Any roll of 6 to hit a vehicle will cause a Penetrating hit.

without needing to roll to wound or AP.

@ThatMG

Everything looks fine except for gauss. A squad of rapidfiring warriors would easily destroy any vehicle. Rending seems to make a whole lot more sense imo.

mrwittwer wrote:@ThatMG

Everything looks fine except for gauss. A squad of rapidfiring warriors would easily destroy any vehicle. Rending seems to make a whole lot more sense imo.

Yeah the idea came from rending / a vid Beast of war on youtube. It is a uber rending kindof. The only thing is I my view Necrons are mass troop army that shoots their high tech weapons that can take out anything. Just the issue with that is in 5th ed a troops heavy army is not good vs mech unless you have a lot of anti tank. it was based on
Dark crusade and some people may have said they where op in it but are Necrons not supposed to be op. I did tests thought was getting like 5 pens per squad of warriors
but dice gods and all that (20 shots for 10 warriors at 12").

I suppose, it could work. It would need some playtesting to really see if its balanced.

I'd like to see a modification of the current Gauss rule, where a 6 is still a glancing hit like it is now, but the Gauss rule allows for Gauss weapons to only roll -1 on Glancing hits.

It prevents the need to fiddle with too many new units, while still allowing Gauss weapons a chance to kill vehicles like they did in 4e.

kartofelkopf wrote:I'd like to see a modification of the current Gauss rule, where a 6 is still a glancing hit like it is now, but the Gauss rule allows for Gauss weapons to only roll -1 on Glancing hits.

It prevents the need to fiddle with too many new units, while still allowing Gauss weapons a chance to kill vehicles like they did in 4e.

Instead of the Rending USR, just make all rolls to wound or penertrate AP1 on the roll of a six. It gives the same affect as Rending against infantry, but makes Necrons deadly to mech once again with the +1 damage. This means you can now wreck a vehicle on a 6 on a glancing hit.

Might be a good idea to say this has no effect on open topped vehicles as auto penertrating hits would be a bit powerful...

I don't think it's a good idea to make the entire necron army able to wreck a vehicle on a glance. That sounds like going back to 4th edition and as far as I know GW was trying to get people to actually start taking more vehicles. Gauss works fine the way it is now, necrons just need more variety in weapons with more lower AP options.