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Stop me if I am wrong, but to use a psychic power while embarked in a transport, doesn't the psycher need to use a firepoint?

If so then hiding them away in a landraider is useless, and pretty much all other transports have rear AP10. Pretty good to assault and tear open.

only if the power requires LoS do you need a fire point.

JotWW, Null Zone, Force Dome, Mind War(IIRC) are examples of things that don't need LoS to be cast.

Grey Templar wrote:only if the power requires LoS do you need a fire point.

JotWW, Null Zone, Force Dome, Mind War(IIRC) are examples of things that don't need LoS to be cast.

JotWW requires LoS to the first model affected (see p. 3). In general, Psychic Shooting Attacks require LoS, and require a fire point to use.

If it is a PSA you must have a firepoint, regardless of it needing LOS or not.

Ya know I'm glad GW set the record straight for me. I had this nagging concern that just maybe I'd be able to use Tyranid elite slots for something other than Hive Guards and Zoanthropes. Thanks for making that decision for me GW! It's not like the army already has to go to some incredible lengths to deal with a retardedly mech-heavy metagame. Let's give people even *MORE* reason to mech up and make absolute certain only two elite choices are ever used. Good thinking you pack of gibbering retards.

While you're at it can you nerf Warriors some more? 3 wounds getting instant killed by Str 8 isn't enough, take away their +1 WS/BS please.

Well Tyranids got some needed clarifications but also some unneeded nerfs on top of it. Not sure why it took 6 months to get that out when other new armies have been getting updates within 2-3 months. I guess it takes awhile to come up with creative ways to nerf an average army.

Sigh... Just... Sigh... ...



I'll suppress the Nerdrage to keep it in check... (but I'm a little worried it may attract a Chaos god)

I just checked out the FAQ and it completely baffles me... I'm so confused. Seriously! If you have a thousand monkeys, typing on a thousand typewriters, you eventually get a GW FAQ... Is that what happened here?

The Drop Spores: I don't want to get into the childish argument of: "But SM can do it! I want to too!!" but Mycetic Spores ARE our transports. They should provide more flexibility then a SM drop pod if anything, not (now) significantly less! When I first read the bug codex, I was thrilled to have a MEQ drop pod... Now... I'm sad :( I liked dropping empty spores to disrupt and block LoS... And attaching my prime to units in the non-empty spore units... :(

Shadow in the Warp: A system/entire sector of the galaxy is disrupted from the SitW and now a rhino or wave serpent offers significant protection?! Not going to say anything else incase I vomit in rage...

On a positive note: Screw you GW! (that's positive right?) On the non-rage side, it did clear up one or two things. But I already was testing seperately for Zoanthropes, counting special character Zoanthropes/Lictors/Carnifexes as Zoanthropes/Lictors/Carnifexes (people were actually debating this...?!) and using the Mawlocks main attack as... well, an attack! Guess that's the difference between RAW players/tourneys and me...

So not much will change on the rules side of things for my gaming group... But i'm going to fight tooth and claw to modify our house rules to allow SitW to affect psykers in transports. My two regular opponents are Mech Eldar and Mech BA, which I have enough trouble dealing with. But now they can cast their powers from their transports, with no way for me stop them at all?

I just feel very sorry for the tourney players... You've been hit in the face with a nerf bat, and I'm actually angry for you! But if you are planning on selling an bugs for cheap...? Well...

EDIT: Oh, and as for the Doom... I have never used him, since I haven't found a decent conversion option yet, but the rules clarification on his powers seemed to be what people were looking for... I have read a lot of threads saying how OP he is, so this will at least satisfy the last of the bug haters

Don't get me wrong, I'm not abandoning the bugs at all! We will evolve! We will adapt! We will suffer a lot of casualties in the process... But we will survive!

Overmind wrote:The Drop Spores: I don't want to get into the childish argument of: "But SM can do it! I want to too!!" but Mycetic Spores ARE our transports. They should provide more flexibility then a SM drop pod if anything, not (now) significantly less! When I first read the bug codex, I was thrilled to have a MEQ drop pod... Now... I'm sad :( I liked dropping empty spores to disrupt and block LoS... And attaching my prime to units in the non-empty spore units... :(

I would strongly suspect that this is a decision based purely on fluff. Whilst dropping empty drop pods might be seen as a valid (if slightly wasteful) tactic by an Imperial Commander, I would think that the Hive Mind would just see it as a waste of organic material...

The Mycetic Spore is created for the specific purpose of dropping gribblies onto the planet.

Shadow in the Warp: A system/entire sector of the galaxy is disrupted from the SitW and now a rhino or wave serpent offers significant protection?! Not going to say anything else incase I vomit in rage...

I think this one was purely for consistency. They ruled that other Tyranid abilities (Spirit Leech, as the obvious example) don't work on units in transports, and so carried that ruling across.

My two regular opponents are Mech Eldar and Mech BA, which I have enough trouble dealing with. But now they can cast their powers from their transports, with no way for me stop them at all?

Well, the Eldar player can only cast powers from inside a transport if they don't require LOS...

Is there an FAQ that says Psychic Hoods can effect models inside a transport or would this be precedent that other armies gear would similiarly be ineffective?

the rules for Psychic hoods don't say they don't effect units in transports.

the Nid powers However, at least now, specifically say they don't.

I'm actually very happy about the DoM rulings. It has weakened his offense and upped his defense enough to where he may not be "THE" primary Target when he comes in. I can see many players now failing to allot the froper amount of fire against the cheap model.

Also got the clarification on the Mawlock that I've been waiting for.


Now for the not good:

As to SitW, It is about as intelligent as the concept of a coversave for Mindwar. GW talks up the psychic powers big time but if it isn't an Imperium faction(JotWW) then the abilities are usually under whelming(Eldritch Storm anyone?)

Also, GW's bias for anything not SM/IG has shined like a lighthouse in a storm where the Tyranids are concerned. Seriously,

1) No codex preview the month leading up to release(More than one persons head would roll if that major of a foul up happened with the SM's or IG.

2) An under promoted model release that didn't even begin to cover the new units. (Stores were under stocked and key models for effective lists not even being produced.)

3) Look at the quality of the Faq, not the rules mind you but the physical quality when compared with the BA Faq released at the same time.

It is clear, GW just doesn't want your money if you play anything other than the Imperium of man's armies. So please, don't argue with them. Keep your money.

Grey Templar wrote:the rules for Psychic hoods don't say they don't effect units in transports.

the Nid powers However, at least now, specifically say they don't.

But remember, gws rules are permissive. They have to say you Can do something for you to be able to do it. They do t say you do effect models inside transports, and this gives precident that they don't.

insaniak wrote:I would strongly suspect that this is a decision based purely on fluff. Whilst dropping empty drop pods might be seen as a valid (if slightly wasteful) tactic by an Imperial Commander, I would think that the Hive Mind would just see it as a waste of organic material...

The Mycetic Spore is created for the specific purpose of dropping gribblies onto the planet.

IMHO, I think they completely disregarded fluff when they made the decisions actually...

Everything is consumed in a Tyranid invasion... Rippers scuttle around eating whatever organic material is available. Be it native vegitation, native wildlife, natives in general, the enemy and other bugs (they even suck the oceans dry!). Nothing is wasted. I would actually consider an empty Imperial drop pod as more of a waste of resources then a spore pod...

I think this one was purely for consistency. They ruled that other Tyranid abilities (Spirit Leech, as the obvious example) don't work on units in transports, and so carried that ruling across.

I'd agree it was probably to maintain consistency... I.E. not being able to target squads in transports...

Well, the Eldar player can only cast powers from inside a transport if they don't require LOS...

But that's what I don't understand... Hypothetical Situation: You have a farseer in a WS, a squad of Guardians and a brood of warriors all within 12" (for the sake of this hypothetical) the Farseer is able to target the Guardian squad outside of the transport with say... Guide or whatever... The SitW 12" bubble effects psykers outside the transport only, but the Farseers power (that is used to target a unit outside the trasnsport) cannot be disrupted in any way... To me, this makes no sense, in either a fluff or a gaming perspective...

I know it's an oversimplification, and just my opinion... But do you see my point?

I think GW dropped the ball on this one... (or more likely completely lost the ball a long time ago and are still groping around in the dark to find it...)

*hehe groping in the dark...*

BTW... Does the SM psychic hood function from within a transport? And/Or affect units inside a transport? If it can be used both ways, then I'm gonna bust-a-nut!! If it only effects psykers on foot (while the Lib is still in the transport) I just don't understand how transports magically have this one way null-field...

EDIT: Someone ninja'd my last question, but it still stands... I'm very curious now...

I agree with most of the FaQ but I strongly feel Shadow in the warp should affect units in transports. It's not something coming from a creature on the field but rather a large fleet of billions of creatures. Don't see how a few inches of armor would protect you from that.

Overmind wrote:Everything is consumed in a Tyranid invasion...

Sure... once it's finished. In the meantime, sending down empty spore pods is using up organic material that could be more productively used to create more warriors.

insaniak wrote:

Overmind wrote:Everything is consumed in a Tyranid invasion...

Sure... once it's finished. In the meantime, sending down empty spore pods is using up organic material that could be more productively used to create more warriors.

Like I said, just my opinion. And I see where your coming from, but the Hive Mind is constantly adapting to battlefield situations... I can picture the trade-off in droping a couple of empty spores to cover the flank of, say, a brood of charging carnifexes (which I see requiring more resources to produce then a spore pod)...

Of course, then there's the argument that, the Hive Mind would just pack those same pods with troops anyway, to achieve the same end... Covered flanks, as well as additional foot slogging Fex support... But that requires even more organic goodness...

Meh, it's just background interpretation... We could probably do this all day!

On-Topic: I agree with Focusedfire... GW does have a history of neglect towards non-imperial armies; or even non-core imperial armies... DH and WH could definately use some TLC... But with the PDF out for them, and hard copies no longer in print, it could be sooner then I think.

What worries me most is what this does to the longevity of the codex... The response to the Tyranid codex release was luke-warm at best (Personally I really like it! I never saw the problems that were posted all over Dakka... Vocal minority maybe...) but now it looks even less appealing... If people don't show love for the bugs, then GW will show even less!

I, for one, will be sticking with the bugs, through and through! GW FAQ's be damned! NomNomNOM!

Overmind wrote: I can picture the trade-off in droping a couple of empty spores to cover the flank of, say, a brood of charging carnifexes (which I see requiring more resources to produce then a spore pod)...

... but obviously the Hive Mind doesn't see that as a worthwhile trade-off.

That's really the point I'm making. Yes, you can come up with fluff reasons for a given rule to not make sense. Equally easily, you can come up with fluff reasons that the rule makes perfect sense. Which of those versions of the fluff you choose to 'believe' is up to you... but when one of them allows the rules to make sense, and one of them doesn't, I know which one I would find preferable.


Nor was I presenting my interpretation as the only valid one... just as the one that I would suspect they had in mind when making the ruling in question. If the ruling was, as I suggested, made for fluff reasons.

I agree that sending down empty spore pods makes no sense from a fluff perspective. Why would that ever happen?

insaniak wrote:I think this one was purely for consistency. They ruled that other Tyranid abilities (Spirit Leech, as the obvious example) don't work on units in transports, and so carried that ruling across.

You're probably right, but that doesn't mean it makes any more sense from either a gameplay or fluff perspective.

insaniak wrote:

Overmind wrote: I can picture the trade-off in droping a couple of empty spores to cover the flank of, say, a brood of charging carnifexes (which I see requiring more resources to produce then a spore pod)...

... but obviously the Hive Mind doesn't see that as a worthwhile trade-off.

That's really the point I'm making. Yes, you can come up with fluff reasons for a given rule to not make sense. Equally easily, you can come up with fluff reasons that the rule makes perfect sense. Which of those versions of the fluff you choose to 'believe' is up to you... but when one of them allows the rules to make sense, and one of them doesn't, I know which one I would find preferable.


Nor was I presenting my interpretation as the only valid one... just as the one that I would suspect they had in mind when making the ruling in question. If the ruling was, as I suggested, made for fluff reasons.

Nobody in the 40k 'verse knows what the Hive Mind could consider a worthwhile trade-off... The Hive Mind is a very anti-social entity... Its dinner parties always end in a horrible mess!

I would like to think they considered the fluff when compiling the FAQ, but with the SitW ruling, I'm finding that hard to believe. You made a good point about consistency on that issue (this game could use a lot more of it), but when it conflicts that much with the background, it gets under my skin. Look... SitW was never portrayed accurately in-game (5th ed codex that is... 4th ed SitW made much, much more sense), BEFORE or AFTER this FAQ, but with it's reduced effectiveness, (IMO remember!) it has tipped it over the line of inaccurately portrayed to the realm of non-sensical babbling.

Transports that provide a one-way barrier to my psyker defense...? I just don't understand...

Actually... Just give bugs rhinos, so we can mech up too and we can all be happy!

ZEDIT: Spell Checked non made up words...

H.B.M.C. wrote:I agree that sending down empty spore pods makes no sense from a fluff perspective. Why would that ever happen?

insaniak wrote:I think this one was purely for consistency. They ruled that other Tyranid abilities (Spirit Leech, as the obvious example) don't work on units in transports, and so carried that ruling across.

You're probably right, but that doesn't mean it makes any more sense from either a gameplay or fluff perspective.

So shooting a few dozen suicidal spore mines down on the planet makes sense, but shooting down a few empty pods with guns attached DOESN'T make sense?!?!

Empty spore pods might be sent down as food into a desert area which the horde needs to cross.

They might be sent down by mistake. They were supposed to be filled with Warriors but the Prime couldn't get in so he called his troops out again for a conventional assault by dropship. The release of the pods was already programmed though.

solkan wrote:So shooting a few dozen suicidal spore mines down on the planet makes sense, but shooting down a few empty pods with guns attached DOESN'T make sense?!?!

It doesn't make sense.

The Tyranids are a very focused race. Their low-level organisms (so everything below Tyranid Warrior) usually only do one thing. Mycetic Spores carry other organisms. That is their purpose. That is the reason the Hive Mind created them. To send them down without other organisms within them would be against their purpose, and they would more likely employ a different kind of creature to do such a job.

Ehh, I could see the hive mind saying "well, X many spore pods are being shot down. Might as well send in some decoys, and not waste filling them with warriors that will never arrive"

Fits the fluff perfectly. Looks exactly like a pod, because it is. Cheaper than a full pod, takes fire for the full pods.

The Hive Mind doesn't care about casualties. If not enough are making it to the surface, it will just increase the density of the spore assault.

Arguing fluff is a pretty good waste of time cause you can take it either way.

Arguing precedent for drop-podding units and rules that already exist for other armies it pretty easy though, cause they already exist.

I don't have problems with the drop pods (though a Tyranid Prime should be able to go down with a unit of Warriors).

However, the Shadow in the Warp ruling on vehicles is ridiculous. I dont know why they asked that question or where in the world the answer came from, but it doesn't make sense with the rules or fluff.

Aduro wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:the rules for Psychic hoods don't say they don't effect units in transports.

the Nid powers However, at least now, specifically say they don't.

But remember, gws rules are permissive. They have to say you Can do something for you to be able to do it. They do t say you do effect models inside transports, and this gives precident that they don't.

the rules for Psychic Hoods are all encompassing.

"An Enemy Model within 24" passes a Psychic test"

this is almost the exact wording that the Tyranid Powers operated under.


No one had problems that the Psychic hood effected units in transports. it is only after Nids got stiffed for that option that people are complaining.

Old Psychic hoods simply said any Psychic tests on the Board could be effected(Yes, this does include people in transports) Be glad the days of the Unlimited Psychic hoods are coming to an end(as soon as Codex: Grey Knights comes out)

Yeah I dont get the shadow of the warp ruling.. Precedence and wording would then mean it should logically apply to psychic hoods as well

I seriously doubt that would fly at a tournament given how random that ruling is.. so for now I guess nids are just screwed

the SitW ruling is wierd.

I do, however, agree with the Psychic Scream and DoM ruling. being able to effect transported units was a little OTT.
Fluffy, but was a balance issue.

it was likely done for consistancy sake across the Codex.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The Hive Mind doesn't care about casualties. If not enough are making it to the surface, it will just increase the density of the spore assault.

Nonsense. The Hivemind sacrifices creatures to get the job done. If it realizes that it can easily lose half as much biomass to an attack, it will do so. The Hivemind is not tactically incompetent.