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i think the logic is that the Spore pod is spawned with the passangers inside it.


it isn't like there are emptyspores inside the Hive ships and carnifexs, and gaunts get inside and then the ship shoots them out of itself.


the Pods will be produced in special spawning pits and the pod will in turn grow a Fex or Gaunts or whatever inside itself and will spawn when it lands.

Well, the Hivemind could just spawn a pod without units. Not exactly hard.

ph34r wrote:Well, the Hivemind could just spawn a pod without units. Not exactly hard.

Or one with a Prime inside. Kind of like Cracker Jacks.

Or remember this part?

(Don't have my codex on me maybe someone can post the exact text)

A lone hive ship encounters the Malan'tai Craftworld, withers, and dies while launching several unnoticed mycetic spores.

A short time later, all contact with the Malan'tai craftworld is lost and a psychic scream tears through the warp.

...

The Doom of Malan'tai sucked every soul from that craftworld. Yet, embarked units are immune to syphon soul (the craftworld is a vehicle no?) and at the very least, many thousands of Eldar all GOT COVER SAVES!

The mycetic spores we use in our games are new ones (if you read the fluff) that the hive mind is using to seed the ground with gribbly goodness. I don't think there's any issue background wise to empty mycetic spores. Makes waaaay more sense then empty drop pods in my opinion. Although I suppose the drop pod could have sgt jack hammer's morning coffee in it or something like that.

As far as the FAQ I nerd raged wednesday but then I was able to use the FAQ to keep my Tyrant from being targeted seperately in CC last night, so I am appeased for the moment. So glad I didn't go to much trouble to make spore pods for my thropes, warriors and prime like I had planned.

hyv3mynd wrote:The Doom of Malan'tai sucked every soul from that craftworld. Yet, embarked units are immune to syphon soul (the craftworld is a vehicle no?)

It would make a difference if the Doom is inside the same vehicle...

yeah, technically the Doom was embarked on the Craftworld.


also he didn't kill every Eldar at once. it took quite a bit of time didn't it?

his Battle Field rule reflects what he can do at a point in time. given time he could reach into a vehicle, but not while a battle is raging around him.

Grey Templar wrote:i think the logic is that the Spore pod is spawned with the passangers inside it.


it isn't like there are emptyspores inside the Hive ships and carnifexs, and gaunts get inside and then the ship shoots them out of itself.


the Pods will be produced in special spawning pits and the pod will in turn grow a Fex or Gaunts or whatever inside itself and will spawn when it lands.

I can see your thinking however I don't think this means the Hive couldn't spawn a pod with nothing in it.

Not that bad of a FAQ, I've seen worse. I'm not sure why I haven't been using DOM. There's really no reason not to.

At the risk of sounding like a petulant child whining 'I want that too!' I have to say all the fluff arguments are a waste of time and a precedent already exists for drop podding empty pods as a tactical decision. If it's a valid, not over powered, balanced and acceptable technique for the many, many other armies that have access to it why is there such a gigantic problem with Tyranids having the same choice? Same goes for independent characters. If it's not unfair for the goose, why is it unfair for the gander?

Don't argue 'well pg. 173, paragraph 17, sentence 4, pixel 13 of this rule book is black while in this book pg 29, top of the page, under heading 'Misc. Random Crap I Looked Up' there's an upside down monkey throwing coconuts so obviously it needs to be different for YOUR army while my army is just fine having that tactic available.' Anyone willing to be subjective in their evaluation of this situation can see a pretty glaring disparity in how the topic is being handled and would understand the reason for frustration. It's a really sore point for the people getting a nerf bat upside the back of the head, and flipping those same people the middle finger at the same time doesn't help.

SumYungGui wrote:
Don't argue 'well pg. 173, paragraph 17, sentence 4, pixel 13 of this rule book is black while in this book pg 29, top of the page, under heading 'Misc. Random Crap I Looked Up' there's an upside down monkey throwing coconuts so obviously it needs to be different for YOUR army while my army is just fine having that tactic available.'

Sigged!

SumYungGui wrote:At the risk of sounding like a petulant child whining 'I want that too!' I have to say all the fluff arguments are a waste of time and a precedent already exists for drop podding empty pods as a tactical decision. If it's a valid, not over powered, balanced and acceptable technique for the many, many other armies that have access to it why is there such a gigantic problem with Tyranids having the same choice? Same goes for independent characters. If it's not unfair for the goose, why is it unfair for the gander?

Don't argue 'well pg. 173, paragraph 17, sentence 4, pixel 13 of this rule book is black while in this book pg 29, top of the page, under heading 'Misc. Random Crap I Looked Up' there's an upside down monkey throwing coconuts so obviously it needs to be different for YOUR army while my army is just fine having that tactic available.' Anyone willing to be subjective in their evaluation of this situation can see a pretty glaring disparity in how the topic is being handled and would understand the reason for frustration. It's a really sore point for the people getting a nerf bat upside the back of the head, and flipping those same people the middle finger at the same time doesn't help.

While i totally see your point and would otherwise agree, I can't because it isn't RAW.

Your argument is Rational, but this is GW were are talking about and their word is law.

Grey Templar wrote:yeah, technically the Doom was embarked on the Craftworld.

I hate that thing. Tore out the heart of my army the other day.

Grey Templar wrote:

SumYungGui wrote:At the risk of sounding like a petulant child whining 'I want that too!' I have to say all the fluff arguments are a waste of time and a precedent already exists for drop podding empty pods as a tactical decision. If it's a valid, not over powered, balanced and acceptable technique for the many, many other armies that have access to it why is there such a gigantic problem with Tyranids having the same choice? Same goes for independent characters. If it's not unfair for the goose, why is it unfair for the gander?

Don't argue 'well pg. 173, paragraph 17, sentence 4, pixel 13 of this rule book is black while in this book pg 29, top of the page, under heading 'Misc. Random Crap I Looked Up' there's an upside down monkey throwing coconuts so obviously it needs to be different for YOUR army while my army is just fine having that tactic available.' Anyone willing to be subjective in their evaluation of this situation can see a pretty glaring disparity in how the topic is being handled and would understand the reason for frustration. It's a really sore point for the people getting a nerf bat upside the back of the head, and flipping those same people the middle finger at the same time doesn't help.

While i totally see your point and would otherwise agree, I can't because it isn't RAW.

Your argument is Rational, but this is GW were are talking about and their word is law.

Their rules are law. Their errata is law. Their FAQ is not. Especially when it has no basis in their rules. There is at least one ruling in the FAQ (possibly 3 or 4) that cannot be valid based on the rules of the game. For these FAQ rulings to be valid GW would have needed to either errata the rules from the Tyranid codex or the brb. They did neither.

GW needs to think about the difference between providing errata and making FAQ rulings.

Most players will accept the official FAQ as equally valid with the official rules.

Kilkrazy wrote:Most players will accept the official FAQ as equally valid with the official rules.

Of course. I don't expect to be able to argue these points with any success. the FAQ is the FAQ, and that's it.

The problem is that there are parts of the FAQ that change the way rules in the Tyranid codex work. These should be errata. The purpose of the FAQ is to answer questions and specifically to clarify rules. Not to change rules and create new ones. That's errata. GW made a mistake. I don't expect that they'll fix it by releasing updated errata, but until the do several rulings in the FAQ cannot be reasonably upheld using the current rules.

Of course, I'm sure that won't stop everyone from just playing as the FAQ says we should. At the moment thee's not much else we can do. But this was very, very poor writing on GW's part.

You've claimed that the FAQs often directly contradict either the BRB or the Home Codex. Can you provide any examples?

I'm specifically talking about issues mentioned in this and other threads: Prime in a Pod, SitW affecting embarked units, cover saves against DoM and other issues. The rules as written (and possibly even as intended) currently seem to allow for a Prime to join a Brood in a Pod, for SitW to effect embarked units and for no cover saves against DoM. Post FAQ clearly GW doesn't want this to be the case, and that's just fine. In each of these cases the problem wasn't a misread rule that lead people to use the unit wrong. if that was the case then a FAQ answer would be enough (as it was for just about everything else in the FAQ). Instead in each of these instances the rules entry for the unit needs to be changed for the unit to behave as described in the FAQ. There needs to be errata that states a Prime cannot join a Brood in a Spore Pod, becasue under the current codex entry it certainly looks like he can. There needs to be errata that states that Spirit Leech grants cover saves, because under the current codex and errata there's nothing that would lead anyone to believe this. There needs to be errata that states that SitW does not effect psykers in a vehicle, because there's nothing in the current rules that clearly states this one way or the other.

All three of these things could have been very easily fixed with errata, and there wouldn't be any questions.

Does the Codex specifically say the a Prime can join a Mycetic Spore with squad?
Does the codex specifically state that no saves (cover or otherwise) may be taken against Spirit Leech? I was under the impression that it was only armour saves that were ignored.

Unless it does, then in both cases there doesn't look like there is a direct contradiction with either the BRB or the Codex in the FAQ.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Does the Codex specifically say the a Prime can join a Mycetic Spore with squad?
Does the codex specifically state that no saves (cover or otherwise) may be taken against Spirit Leech? I was under the impression that it was only armour saves that were ignored.

Unless it does, then in both cases there doesn't look like there is a direct contradiction with either the BRB or the Codex in the FAQ.

I would argue that the codex does say that the the prime can join a squad in a Spore.

Cover saves against Spirit Leech may a bit more complicated. The codex doesn't mention cover saves against anything. Looking in the BRB, you get cover saves against shooting attacks, which Spirit Leech explicitly isn't. So based on the available information, it doesn't seem like Spririt leech should grant a cover save.

jake wrote:
I would argue that the codex does say that the the prime can join a squad in a Spore.

You would argue? From a rules perspective or fluff one?

Cover saves against Spirit Leech may a bit more complicated. The codex doesn't mention cover saves against anything. Looking in the BRB, you get cover saves against shooting attacks, which Spirit Leech explicitly isn't. So based on the available information, it doesn't seem like Spririt leech should grant a cover save.

By that logic:
Looking in the BRB, you get invulnerable saves against shooting attacks, which Spirit Leech explicitly isn't. So based on the available information, it doesn't seem like Spririt leech should grant an invulnerable save.

ph34r wrote:Well, the Hivemind could just spawn a pod without units. Not exactly hard.

For what purpose?

There's no waste in the Tyranid race. Organisms are only created for a purpose. It may be singular, and it is in most cases is, but they always have a purpose.

What purpose does a Mycetic Spore have beyond acting as a delivery system?

Squatting on objectives and being a pain in the ass?

You would argue? From a rules perspective or fluff one?

From a rules perspective.

By that logic:
Looking in the BRB, you get invulnerable saves against shooting attacks, which Spirit Leech explicitly isn't. So based on the available information, it doesn't seem like Spririt leech should grant an invulnerable save.

Agreed. As written it doesn't seem to grant any save. If they wanted to change this they needed errata, not a FAQ answer.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:

Overmind wrote:Everything is consumed in a Tyranid invasion...

Sure... once it's finished. In the meantime, sending down empty spore pods is using up organic material that could be more productively used to create more warriors.

The spore pod is a giant monster that eats or shoots anything that gets near it. Hardly a waste.

jake wrote:

You would argue? From a rules perspective or fluff one?

From a rules perspective.

I don't know the wording in regards restrictions on this so I can't extrapolate.

By that logic:
Looking in the BRB, you get invulnerable saves against shooting attacks, which Spirit Leech explicitly isn't. So based on the available information, it doesn't seem like Spririt leech should grant an invulnerable save.

Agreed. As written it doesn't seem to grant any save. If they wanted to change this they needed errata, not a FAQ answer.

Does it say "With no saves of any sort allowed" or "With no armour saves allowed" or "With no saves allowed"? It's got to be one of those 3, with the last one being the murkiest.

I believe it says with no armor saves allowed. Which does open up the question of whether you can take cover saves. However, a quick look at the BRB shows that cover saves are for shooting attacks only. So I can't see a way cover saves could be allowed as the rules are currently written. As I said, it needs errata, not a FAQ answer.

The Dom is still a great unit at a great price, too bad GW hasn't made a model for it yet.

Now I get why GW granted the coversaves against spirit leech. It comes from the mentality of overly simplifying things, in other words, their logic chain is as follows:
A)If spirit leech happens at the beginning of shooting phase then it must be a shooting Attack.
B)If it is a shooting attack then cover saves must apply.
C)If cover saves must apply then there is no need to examine the rules for precedent that would indicate other-wise.

This is the same way that mind war got nerfed.

Yet, JotWW does not grant coversaves under the reasoning that it doesn't cause wounds. This here is a clear indication that GW does pay attention when wrotong the rules, for SM's that is.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

ph34r wrote:Well, the Hivemind could just spawn a pod without units. Not exactly hard.

For what purpose?

There's no waste in the Tyranid race. Organisms are only created for a purpose. It may be singular, and it is in most cases is, but they always have a purpose.

What purpose does a Mycetic Spore have beyond acting as a delivery system?

Looking scary and serving as terrain