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Thats creepy...

..alright, that was quite well done..

but if we could steer away from the current direction this thread appears to be being drawn towards that'd be great and you can all get shiny silver ( not gold.. you ain't that good) stars for being well behaved and showing that not every contentious thread on the OT board winds up with the MOD team spasming and "holidays" being handed out.

I know it's POETS day and all, but.. c'mon.. you're better than that. Right ?

Because the average Joe is an idiot, with no interest in history or biology and ergo is unaware that we are all pretty much identical.

Its not hard this one mate.

So yes. I guess I am just overestimating people

I was reading an article in some "Intelligent magazine" about how the jewish population strongly supported The rights of african americans throughout the civil rights movement.

After the civil right movement, Anti-Semetism in black americans almost doubled (from like 20% to like 35%) and racism among jews decreased (From 25% to like 17%). This must have been a serious betrayal to the jews...Really.

Anyway, my point being, People are only tolerant when it benefits them, which is sad.

People will act within their best interests. But people can also be compassionate. If you can see past tags and monikers, humanity is humanity at the lowest common denominator regardless of differences. Getting past those differences requires a special leap of faith in the concept of being a human being rather than being an Italian, or an Ethiopian, or being black, white, brown, and so forth.

As was mentioned it's really an instinctive us vs them mentality. Be wary of the outsider and some such. Skin color is an obvious trait but how long did the English hate on the Irish? White on white hate is pretty harsh. I've read that Asian nations are also pretty harsh given their languages of "in" and "out" vocabulary for familiar, working and foreign relationship status.

And to end this post light hearted I believe it was the great Chris Rock that said "You will never meet a bigger racist than an old black man. Cracker cracker!"

This is a easy question to answer. people like to blame failings on others. My x brother in law blamed the white man even though he ruined his own life. My wife's inlaws blame mexicans for the economy even as they hire them. Being a racist is an easy cop out for blaming others for our own failings.

For instance poor black folks wouldn't do so bad if they gave a good damn about politics and didn't vote for local bums because they happen to put Revend in frot of thier name. And for once elected a black person with some DAMN COMMON SENSE! (Making us look bad on tv.)

Poorer white folk could do better by blaming constrution companies that hire mexicans instead of the mexicans themselves.

But it's easy to blame another race than ourselves, and Americans love easy.


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"After the civil right movement, Anti-Semetism in black americans almost doubled (from like 20% to like 35%) and racism among jews decreased (From 25% to like 17%). This must have been a serious betrayal to the jews...Really. "

Lots of black people at that time turned to Islam. Militant Islam.

I HAET RACISTS !!!

G

Unfortunately it's a natural part of human behaviour to be wary of somehting different. In the past it was useful (often different creatures and situations were dangerous) and it has stuck. In the past when we lived in much more seperated groups we relied on those in our group competed with outsiders who could be dangerous.

The way we stereotype groups is what keeps species alive as being careful is often better than going in unprepared. It allows us to learn and predict situations. Racism is the negative of this.

WarOne wrote:People will act within their best interests. But people can also be compassionate. If you can see past tags and monikers, humanity is humanity at the lowest common denominator regardless of differences. Getting past those differences requires a special leap of faith in the concept of being a human being rather than being an Italian, or an Ethiopian, or being black, white, brown, and so forth.

Dunno about that.

I would suggest that accepting the fact that people can identify themselves in many ways beyond the fact that they are human, seems a pretty healthy thing. When people cannot see past the small groups that they are a part of, then problems arise. Problem is, humans are not particularly good at doing that, and it seems to be no less than a method of survival that acts as the core of this issue.

We aren't very experienced living in complex societies, and solutions to problems that arise due to those circumstances are hard to come by. I tend to avoid talking about race when face to face with people, primarily because those conversations tend to end very badly, or on a note that is no less than nonsensical. Nearly every person limits their interactions with people outside of their 'sphere', to conversation that could be picked out of an action movie. Or a drama... whatever. It comes down to the point where there are just too many opinions to balance in a concise way. Walls are built in peoples minds, to help them establish their own opinions as valid. This does not discount that some opinions are simply more valid than others, on the whole of it.

The ease of access to, and use of information found at the touch of a button, appears to act as a catalyst to the development of very self centered ideas. Again, being self centered does not strike me as an entirely unhealthy thing, and it is often mixed with some degree of societal understanding. You know you're 'right', but you're very likely to understand that other people have opinions as well. None of this presumes ignorance to be a good thing, rather a state of being that does protect ones opinions from being overwhelmed by opinions that are well outside your own.

Long story short, we are all morons, but some are simply more easily influenced by a fear of the unknown. Do women get paid less? Yep. Is it generally harder to succeed if you are colored in America? Yep. Does it help to focus on the hate that is generically present within practically all of us (to a degree which can vary massively, of course)? Probably not.

Racism in America is no longer what it once was, but taking action to continue towards something greater than that which we have already achieved, is certainly an admirable goal. Not to say that any action is good action, just that action is needed to begin with.

Da derp derp... I'm a idiot.

Frazzled wrote:Why is it usually white over others? Thats a misnomer. Its usually "us" vs. "them."

If we're considering 'usually' as a facet of 'normalcy' or 'significance', then it makes sense to consider racism (in its Western form) to have been predominantly about the superiority of whites vis a vis others races. If we're talking about racism as a matter of sheer statistical frequency, without regard to cultural context, then it doesn't make sense to do that.

In my opinion the "first world" is about as un-racist as it's ever been. Probably as any human population of any size has ever been in all of history.

That's not to say that racism no longer exists, but it's at the lowest levels ever, and I'm not really sure that you can ever completely eliminate it.

Even if you did, people would just find another topic to be divided on.

Phryxis wrote:In my opinion the "first world" is about as un-racist as it's ever been. Probably as any human population of any size has ever been in all of history.

That's not to say that racism no longer exists, but it's at the lowest levels ever, and I'm not really sure that you can ever completely eliminate it.

Even if you did, people would just find another topic to be divided on.

Hmm. Okay. I see what you're saying, but I have to disagree. You probably just live in a good place

Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Quite the opposite. There are so many "anti-hispanics" I could almost laugh. You hear about the ones in arizona, but that's just the tip-of-the-iceberg. There are entire groups of people dedicated to making the lives of hispanics as bad as possible. I believe they're based in texas.

Also, who's to say that the suicide bombings in the middle east aren't acts of racism? The gaza strip? North Korea? Almost every conflict can be attributed to "racism" in one way or another. Anti-semitism can be considered racism also, which has been the root of 90% of wars in the last 2500 years.

You might disagree with that, and I understand if you do

He didn't say recism didn't exist. In fact he said...

Phryxis wrote:That's not to say that racism no longer exists,

Hi point was racism was at it's lowest level ever. Which I would agree with. Plenty of racists about, but less than yesterday.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Seriously, why? Can't people just learn to like each other? This is the 21st century, we live in an integrated society with every race imaginable, but people can't talk to their neighbors because they're black/latino/asian/middle eastern? It's sickening how traditional people actually are. I used to think that every generation was getting slightly less racist as they went along, but that's just an illusion. People are probably getting more racist now that they have to share jobs, stores and restaurants with other people.

I'm not saying any of you are racist, nor am I racist, But I've been around racists. These aren't 4chan racists saying the "n-word" just because it sounds cool to them, these are people who would rather see others killed before they share a restaurant with a group of people. It's disturbing.

Maybe I just overestimate people. Maybe people really are not capable of tolerance.

Incidentally,4chan is what got me angry with racism. I doubt many of those people on 4chan are actually racist, but it's still rather disturbing to see so many disgusting people in one place. God I hate 4chan...

Umm samus_aran here is a better question...

With so many different "ism" around , why only care about racism?

You might disagree with that, and I understand if you do

I don't disagree that there is still racism going on.

I just don't think you're taking into account how racist people USED to be.

There are certainly people who, for example, don't like Mexicans (or latinos in general). In reality, these people basically just mutter to each other, and then do nothing. They're also not especially numerous. So, we spent virtually all of human existence in a state where people were not only ALL racist, but if you went off and killed people of another race, the likely response was "good job, but next time, see if you can catch some for slaves."

We're all very used to thinking of racism as WORST POSSIBLE THING EVAR EVAR. You're forgetting that in the past, it wasn't worst evar, it wasn't even bad, it was just "reality."

So, the fact that we even have people criticizing racism is more than most of human history can say, and we don't just have people criticizing it... We have the vast majority of people frothing at the mouth in hatred of it, to the point that they can barely even process anything else.

I point to the Mel Gibson thread I started... This guy spends xyz hours YELLING at his wife, calling her all manner of horrible things, threatening her, etc... And then he says ONE racist thing, and everyone focuses in on THAT.

What the hell is that? Saying ONE racial slur in passing is not NEARLY as bad as screaming and threatening at your supposed girlfriend. It's not even on the same SCALE.

But that's all anybody seems to notice.

We're so focused on not being racist, we've lost a sense of any other kind of morality.

That's true lunahound. It's all bad the same Anti-semitism is probably just as bad, if not worse than racism.

Oh, okay. Yes, I see your point. I'm sure racism is significantly less than it was, say, 40 years ago.

Anti-semitism is probably just as bad, if not worse than racism.

Well, it's basically just anti-Jewish racism. Altho "Jewish" is a bit more complicted than just a race, some peope certainly view it that way.

There are real racist creeps , im sure like KKK or worse , however... There are also people that plays the "race card" as often as they can to receive benefits.
Which really fuels the tension not to mention discredits many actual victims of racism .

And this whole "N" word is ridiculous , " we can use it all we want , but other race cant."
Its a sense of empowerment and imbalance , how anyone wishes to achieve peace via this attitude is beyond my understanding.

Racism also encompasses fear. The fear of pointing out something a minority wrong just to be accused of been racist. Will also contribute to disgruntled experience.

Phryxis wrote:

Anti-semitism is probably just as bad, if not worse than racism.

Well, it's basically just anti-Jewish racism. Altho "Jewish" is a bit more complicted than just a race, some peope certainly view it that way.

Well, there's plenty of anti-muslims and anti-hindus as well, but people tend to think about jews when they hear anti-semitism.

Also, most of my jewish friends consider being a jewish a "background" rather than a race. The combined genetic traits that we associate with jews are unique to them, which is why we consider them a race, but that's a misconception. There are indeed people who have very similar traits, that are not jewish in the least (the jonas brothers and russel brand come to mind).

Honestly, people don't know anything about jews. If you asked a person off the street to point out a jew in a crowd of 10 people, they would undoubtedly have no idea. Anti-semitism is just as stupid as racism. >.>

Well, there's plenty of anti-muslims and anti-hindus as well, but people tend to think about jews when they hear anti-semitism.

Right, because "anti-semitism" refers to racism against Jews specifically.

Also, most of my jewish friends consider being a jewish a "background" rather than a race.

Right, it can be a religion, a race or a culture. All fit the bill in one case or another.

Clearly it's a religion...

But it's also got aspects of race to it. For example, the state of Israel has the "right of return" which means they will give citizenship to any Jew that wishes to move to Israel. The determine this matrilineally. That is, if your mother is Jewish, you're Jewish.

There is also just a Jewish culture, a set of traditions, outlooks, etc.

If you asked a person off the street to point out a jew in a crowd of 10 people, they would undoubtedly have no idea.

Usually pretty easy to spot a hasidim, or somebody in a yarmulke.

Samus_aran115 wrote: If you asked a person off the street to point out a jew in a crowd of 10 people, they would undoubtedly have no idea.

Well, they would probably have an idea (there are a number of physical stereotypes that people associate with Judaism), but that idea wouldn't necessarily be right.

Is it racist if you hate everybody?

There are really two main kinds of racism. There's the belief in genetic/biological determination of intelligence/personality/etc along racial lines, and there's the belief that there are differences in intelligence/personality/etc along racial lines without any further beliefs as to why this is the case. The first doesn't seem very popular any more, because it simply comes down to what neurology/genetics/etc reaches as its conclusion.

The second is the tricky one, because there are differences between races that are readily observable. For instance, on tests whites have are generally observed to have a higher average IQ than blacks, but a lower average IQ than asians. There are also differences in crime rates, physical strength, and just about any other trait. What does this mean? Very little, but people tend to handle these sort of statistics badly, and this isn't limited to statistics; look at any sort of argument that crops up when sources are cited saying that liberals are more educated than conservatives, that conservatives give more to charity than liberals, that left handed people die faster, Americans are fatter than Europeans, etc. I think that part of the problem is that people don't trust their own judgements enough, both of others and of themselves. After all, talking with someone for five minutes is going to give you a better picture of them than assumptions made from as broad of a category as race, religion, handedness, or so forth, and while introspection can be difficult, you still almost certainly know enough about yourself to make the "average" of the group you're in irrelevant. People treat statistics with a great deal of authority though (usually too much), and so they become fearful/angry/ecstatic beyond all reason when exposed to them.

Or at least, that's my working theory. I'm not too dedicated to it.

Orkeosaurus
How dare you bring up the fact that humans have races and that we are not absolutely equal, that´s so nasty of you! As punishment go and write "I´ll only buy GW hobby stuff" a thousand times

M.


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PS: I agree with somethings you said there.

Miguelsan wrote:Orkeosaurus
How dare you bring up the fact that humans have races and that we are not absolutely equal, that´s so nasty of you! As punishment go and write "I´ll only buy GW hobby stuff" a thousand times

But.. but.. the prices... :(

Soladrin wrote:

And, everyone has laughed at a racist joke, why? Because their jokes.

true, that.

Anyway, I think he means people that actually hate, not people who find the world funny.

Honestly, I haven't come across too many people who actually truly hate another race, but I'm sure there are some. Which sucks for them.

Rascism is hard to gauge. Are we talking Al Sharpton Rascism or Spike Lee Rascism or KKK Rascism or Rwanda Rascism or Black Panther rascism or Nazi Rascism or etc.

Rascism exists in part because some people believe that rascists are everywhere. Some people are just sensitive and some people are insensitive, when these two people meet there's going to be issues.

Oh, and all that philosophical and genetic stuff too.

For instance, on tests whites have are generally observed to have a higher average IQ than blacks, but a lower average IQ than asians.

One thing about racism, that people forget...

It's not racist to make judgements about races. It's racist to make judgement about people based on their race.

For example, black people have higher crime rates than white people. To say that is just a simple statement of fact, and not racism. But if you meet a black dude one day, and assume he's a criminal, THAT is racist.

halonachos wrote:
Rascism exists in part because some people believe that rascists are everywhere.

I've never understood this argument. If someone believes that there are racists everywhere it doesn't having bearing on the actual presence of racism. The belief that racism is everywhere can be a form of prejudice in that it can lead one to presume that every person one might meet to be a racist, but that presumption is not itself racism.

I think, very frequently, people will use 'racism' as a catchall to describe any form of discrimination, and that doing so causes a great deal of confusion.