Best Armored Sentinal Weapon Loadout?

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**I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly**

Although everyone else has already said it:

Sentinels are outclassed by other choices in the book, including other FA options.

If you do take sentinels, their anti-tank weapons benefit more from outflanking and points reduction (scout sentinels) than from mediocre armour (armoured sentinels).

**JohnHwangDD**

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Its too bad because the model is really cool.

Yeah, like Possessed.

**Sanctjud**

And Spawn...

**AbaddonFidelis**

yes. definitely like possessed.

**Sanctjud**

True, gakky, doesn't mean they can't outperform other options. Which is the crux of the issue generally for these 'fun' units.

**willydstyle**

Polonius wrote:Armored Sentinels are arguably the worst FA choice in the book. Even scout sentinels have the advantages of outflanking and being stupidly cheap (with Multilaser). Yes, they can tarpit, but so can blob platoons with a commissar, or even penal legion.

They're that rare combination of overcosted and underfocused that makes a unit really hard to fit in. Scout Sentinels aren't great, but they're cheap and have a pretty narrow focus.

I was dismissiive in my codex review:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/5th_Edition_Imperial_Guard_Codex_Fast_Attack_Review_%28Polonius%29#Armoured_Sentinel_Squadron
And I stand by my appraisal.

If you have to use them, I'd go with the autocannon. Bury them in cover, enjoy 48" range, and hope to get lucky.

I disagree. AV12 on a walker is damned nice for tarpit duty. If you're going to use them, put them up front with your other mechanized threats, and watch as your enemy's blobbed platoon has to choose between shooting the sentinel, or shooting what they actually *want* to shoot at and getting tarpitted next turn.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're great damage output for their points value (they are certainly not) it's just that if you're going to play with them, playing them aggressively is the way to go.

**I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly**

Interesting point about tarpits - I can see how a lot of armies would be vulnerable to that. However, many of those armies will be mobile (so hard to catch them with a sentinel and tie them down) or include hidden powerfists left right and center. Additionally, if you get close enough to threaten a charge, aren't you likely to be exposing your side armour?

In short, seems like a cool trick, but would depend on army match-up and being a bit cannier than your opponent.

**AbaddonFidelis**

ugh. if they let this thing tar pit them they deserve to lose the use of the unit. what, no lascannons? no meltaguns? you can see it coming a mile away.... barf.

**Try Again Bragg**

The sentinel has great use for tarpiting. consider for a moment that you aren't spamming the standard list, and are instead going for a gunline, which has great merit and is old enough that massive numbers of tactics are available. Then look at the 30 boys, gaunts, berserkers, and charge them with the sentinels. Then after that most have them only have maybe 4 powerfist attacks, or krak grenades. for 55-225, you just bought yourself 1, maybe 2 turns, at worst 60 points better then a commissar blob squad, and takes up a fast attack, which is much less useful when running gunline, and opens up the slots for more troops. Before anybody hits me with unlikely scenario plenty of people still run gunline IG and a tarpit that is not a lot of your troops.

**kaiservonhugal**

Id use them as the mobile heavy weapon for a SQUAD. Keep the squad moving and the veavy along with it.

Thing is - a Chimera does this better.

**Sanctjud**

AbaddonFidelis wrote:ugh. if they let this thing tar pit them they deserve to lose the use of the unit. what, no lascannons? no meltaguns? you can see it coming a mile away.... barf.

Even though you can't read this...or are pretended to have placed me on your ignore list.
__________
Yea.. sure, they can see it.
But are you REALLY going to always use the lascannons and melta guns on Sentinals or the Russes in the back or Hellhounds upfront?

Seriously dude, there is a thing called target saturation where the opponent may not have the resources to deal with everything that one could throw at them.

Of course the sentinals will die if you pit them vs. the whole enemy army...but that's not a realistic comparison nor is it helpful.

**Ruckdog**

I've been running 3 armored sentinels in my list. Initially I took them with LCs, but now I only take MLs as that minimizes their cost and gives them more dice to throw. So, I would go with ML as a good loadout, although the point that Plasma is only available to the armored sentinels and the only way to get PCs outside the LR Executioner is a good point.

However, any way you cut it, it is still a really expensive unit that I am replacing with scout sentinels!

**JohnHwangDD**

willydstyle wrote:
Polonius wrote:Armored Sentinels are arguably the worst FA choice in the book. Yes, they can tarpit, but so can blob platoons with a commissar, or even penal legion.

I disagree. AV12 on a walker is damned nice for tarpit duty.

Except, it lacks a DNCCW, or even a PW. For the same points, I can drive a Chimera up and lay down 2 HF templates. Plus Vets laying down Flamer Templates.

Which handles the enemy horde better?

**Sanctjud**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
willydstyle wrote:
Polonius wrote:Armored Sentinels are arguably the worst FA choice in the book. Yes, they can tarpit, but so can blob platoons with a commissar, or even penal legion.

I disagree. AV12 on a walker is damned nice for tarpit duty.

Except, it lacks a DNCCW, or even a PW. For the same points, I can drive a Chimera up and lay down 2 HF templates. Plus Vets laying down Flamer Templates.

Which handles the enemy horde better?

Well, the role of tarpit does not need a DCCW or a PW.
A moving chimera can only shoot ONE heavy flamer templates, the vets can do their thing yes...but that's not tarpitting, that's killing them, but still allowing survivors to act/doesn't block as much 'movement' and requires less time to resolve.

**Biophysical**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Except, it lacks a DNCCW, or even a PW. For the same points, I can drive a Chimera up and lay down 2 HF templates. Plus Vets laying down Flamer Templates.
Which handles the enemy horde better?

So much to disagree with here.

1.) DNCCW doesn't matter on a tarpit, even a SM dread will do trivial damage to a horde.
2.) Heavy Flamers are S5, which means they're not defensive, which means only one can fire on the move.
3.) Chimera + Vets w/flamers is what, ~150 points? For roughly double the cost of a high end armored sentinel, you do kill a bunch of guys, but might not wipe the squad. Any remainder will likely find the Vets easy targets.

The Armored Sentinel locks hordes down. If you put it into a guant squad, guard blob, or orc boyz mob, they're not going anywhere. The same is true of tac squads, almost any eldar squad, and a fair number of specialized CC squads. It may be argued that the points cost of the sentinel and the FA slot it takes up still make it too expensive for this, but it does lock things down. While it's pretty reliable even against single powerfists (see below), against S3, 4, 5, and 6 is basically automatic. No luck required.

I've posted this before, but people don't seem to understand it.

WS4+ S8 vs. WS3 Armor 12:
2/3 chance of hitting * 1/3 chance of penetrating * 1/3 chance of destroyed result: =~7% chance of destroyed result per attack. Increase this number by a bit because three immobilized and weapon destroyed results will also kill it, but one can reasonably expect the Armored Sentinel to go toe-to-toe with a PF Nob for a while. It's even better against an SM sergeant's PF.

**Sanctjud**

It's even better when they explode...granted normal Sentinals do this better, but at least the Armored ones can get there...surrounded by orcs... rolling that magical 5-6 range, utter mayham.

Though it's something that just happens, not something that is relied upon

.

**Try Again Bragg**

Ah yes I forgot about the sentinel bomb. while you are correct in that the scout is more likely to go boom, the armored sentinel is more likely to get there. I would rather have the greater guarantee of the tarpit, then of a boom. then at least it does something for a little while.

**Polonius**

That the Armored sentinel is suprisingly durable in a tarpit role is, to me at least, pretty well settled. There are still a lot of units that can breeze through it (MCs, enemy dreads, anything with melta bombs, TH Termies, chainfists etc), but most rank and file troops will be stalled cracking the AV12.

It might be worth a try in a game, but I'm still worried about it's limited charge range. Compared even to a blob platoon with the same move and charge, the sentinel has a single 3" base, not a large 30 model foot print. As has been pointed out ad nauseum in this thread, this is game where Furiosos can kill entire ork mobs now. People are geared up to take out AV12 outside of combat. At some point, savvy players are going to realize that they need to use the melta on the Sentinel, so that next turn they can use krak grenades on chimera chassis vehicles.

What are people's experience in opponents adapting to this tactic? Does it work repeatedly? I would think that it'd be too easy for a canny opponent to foil, but as you say, it only has a 55pt buy-in.

**JohnHwangDD**

Exactly, who's got a story in which an Armored Sentinel actually earned its points back? Who made the tarpit actually work?

Against a non-n00b opponent, please.

**JSK-Fox**

When I try it out, I'll see. Who knows. It may well be a great anti-transport unit with an autocannon.

**JohnHwangDD**

JSK-Fox wrote:When I try it out, I'll see. Who knows. It may well be a great anti-transport unit with an autocannon.

Sure, tho if you're taking an Autocannon, why not put it on the regular Sentinel and save the points? Or split the difference by adding a HK for an extra S8 shot when you outflank?

IMO, the only reason to take Armored is for Plasma, and then, because your other Heavy slots are full.

**Ailaros**

yeah, a DCCW isn't needed on a tar pit, but honestly, if they came out with an A2 sentinel with a DCCW, I would VERY seriously consider taking one. I'm imagining a ~50 point scout sentinel showing up out of outflanking to throw a couple S10 power fist attacks on the charge. Cheap, fragile, but useful.

Unlike armored sentinels, which are none of those.

**Try Again Bragg**

I have one, in which I forced an opponent to completely change his strategy. This was a tau player who used his commander to charge down and kill my russes and other big toys. I kept each flank (which was where I kept my big toys). As soon as he came close I charged right into him. The commander and his bodyguards had no close combat weapons that could hurt the sentinels and thus was stuck there for the entire game. This happened three times, before he gave up and started trying to gun down the tanks with broadsides, which I had carefully kept cover between me and the broadsides. I think part of this tactic is what drove my friend away from tau and into eldar.

**JSK-Fox**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
JSK-Fox wrote:When I try it out, I'll see. Who knows. It may well be a great anti-transport unit with an autocannon.

Sure, tho if you're taking an Autocannon, why not put it on the regular Sentinel and save the points? Or split the difference by adding a HK for an extra S8 shot when you outflank?

IMO, the only reason to take Armored is for Plasma, and then, because your other Heavy slots are full.

I guess it's useful when you have 20 points and nowhere to spend it. I don't ever outflank or even hold many things reserve (except terminators, but only them).

**AbaddonFidelis**

John Hwang

you wrote:
Exactly, who's got a story in which an Armored Sentinel actually earned its points back? Who made the tarpit actually work? Against a non-n00b opponent, please

I know someone who probably has one <rolls eyes>
AF

**willydstyle**

Against a BA player, I assaulted an assault squad that had no powerfist upgrade that was sitting on my objective in a Capture and Control game. Sure, I couldn't capture the objective, but neither could he, and the relative short charge range was mitigated by the fact that it was a point on the board where my enemy had to have troops. The only thing he could do to try to un-tarpit the squad (hitting-on-6 krak grenades weren't doing it for him) was assault the walker with a blood-talons furioso, which also only glanced on a 6.

**JSK-Fox**

AbaddonFidelis wrote:John Hwang

you wrote:
Exactly, who's got a story in which an Armored Sentinel actually earned its points back? Who made the tarpit actually work? Against a non-n00b opponent, please

I know someone who probably has one <rolls eyes>
AF

You wouldn't so happen to be referring to me, would you?
If you are, I've never used one yet.

Anyways, back on topic.
It all really depends on how you play, some people who don't go on here may well be able to kill 3 times their points value with them, whereas they will suck for others. They aren't the best, but they're okay at some things (such as tar-pitting).

**Sanctjud**

He's prob. trying to make a jab at all the people he's put on his ignore list

___________________

But yea, it's not always about 'making points back'...but this is something IMO that AF has issues accepting to be true.

**JSK-Fox**

Exactly. Armoured sentinels may tarpit an ork boy unit for the whole game, killing 3 boys. That's 18 points. But it stopped the other 27 from even touching your weak little heavy weapon squad. Therefore, it did it's job.

**AbaddonFidelis**

no JSK I am not referring to you.
you know what else makes a good tar pit? guardsmen. except the guardsmen can actually swing back. just saying.
AF