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Except the line before that reads 'Many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment do not work unless wielded by an Ork'.

Which you have not actually cited a page for...

The Genetor quote, for example, was on page 10

Then whats the problem here? You have cited the page yourself that has the lines that make up our argument... And it is in the latest codex. Also note that it says "many" of the ork weapons ect. ect. This leaves I nice hole to say that the mek that created the weapons that were used by marines in whatever auxiliary (for lack of better term) book you have read knew what he was doing and made weapons that actually work. Perhaps the ork's abilitys are only needed when an ork is using a weapon made by a mek just figuring out how these weapons go together (as they are trail and error learners, combined with there genetic disposition to there trade) and has yet to get his own skills up to the point were he is making working weaponry.

Now I'm sorry if I was a bit cross in my last post but lets all take a deep breath and hash this out. Now Melissia do you have a good, calmly presented counter argument to my theory?

yournamehere wrote:Then whats the problem here? You have cited the page yourself that has the lines that make up our argument...

I suppose you didn't actually read my post then? I thought not.

Melissia wrote:No, the closest thing to your argument in the fourth edition codex is a quote by Genetor Lukas Anzion, who states "I theorize many [notice he does not say all] Ork inventions work because Orks themselves think they should work".

Not an unbiased source by any means, considering that it is a Techpriest of Mars, whom believes that human technology is the only truely pure technology.

Compare that to Dark Heresy which merely has Ork equipment more reliable in Ork hands-- but it's still no less reliable than many human inventions even outside of Ork hands. Merely that in an Ork's hands, a shoota is as reliable as a lasgun. Their mega armor works in a similar way, though really no human can actually fit in it so it's not as if that's easy to test out.

Emphasized so that you might notice something important which I said.

A single member of the Adeptus Mechanicus BELIEVES that information, without any actual proof. It's just a theory. And more than that, a Magos Genetor. One who studies genetics. Not one who studies xeno technology.

This is about as reliable as a theologist attempting to make a theory on chemistry.

man this has become close and personal lol but however GW change the background of the species everytime they feel like it so we can argue for hours about that

Melissia wrote:

yournamehere wrote:Then whats the problem here? You have cited the page yourself that has the lines that make up our argument...

I suppose you didn't actually read my post then? I thought not.

Why are you being so jaded? I did read your post, then commented on it and I fail to see how I failed to read your post, I even pulled out my codex and read the lines so that I would not make a mistake in understanding what your saying. If we are going to get anywhere with this without it reverting to a flame war lets avoid things like this.

Melissia wrote:No, the closest thing to your argument in the fourth edition codex is a quote by Genetor Lukas Anzion, who states "I theorize many [notice he does not say all] Ork inventions work because Orks themselves think they should work".

Not an unbiased source by any means, considering that it is a Techpriest of Mars, whom believes that human technology is the only truely pure technology.

Compare that to Dark Heresy which merely has Ork equipment more reliable in Ork hands-- but it's still no less reliable than many human inventions even outside of Ork hands. Merely that in an Ork's hands, a shoota is as reliable as a lasgun. Their mega armor works in a similar way, though really no human can actually fit in it so it's not as if that's easy to test out.

Emphasized so that you might notice something important which I said.

A single member of the Adeptus Mechanicus BELIEVES that information, without any actual proof. It's just a theory. And more than that, a Magos Genetor. One who studies genetics. Not one who studies xeno technology.

This is about as reliable as a theologist attempting to make a theory on chemistry.

Now we are getting somewhere, I never put to much thought into the fact that the observation in question was made by a person who was studying their genetics and not their technology. Probably because I first read that excerpt (proper word?) when I was like 12 in an older book and just took it as if the book was stating it as fact, without understanding the perspective of the imaginary person that made said quote. With this revelation I can now better understand your argument, even though it is being presented in an angry fashion (seriously lets loose the anger here, I think we will start making better headway, plus we are talking about a imaginary universe based on plastic toy army men) So to clarify you are saying that in the ork codex the ork's mind powers have been over estimated by a person who does not really have the how shall I say? required research background and unbiased scientific approach to make such assertions and have them be able to be taken as fact. However in more recent books than the most recent codex the ork's weapons do rely in a small way to make their weapons more reliable (jam less and such) They don't rely as heavily on there latent phycic powers to make the gun actually fire?

We on the same page now?

Melissia wrote:Or maybe you're jsut reading outdated fluff which is irrelevant in fifth edition.

The stuff about ork psychic ability is in the 5th edition codex, it basically says that the technology does work, but it is the belief of the orks that allows it to function 'properly' and that some ork technology doesn't work in imperial hands.

There is no 5th Ed Ork codex.

Latest is the 4.5 one.

I think the important factor for the ability to fire an ork shoota depends on the Mek who built it, and how they built it. Some of them will probably work like a normal gun, and some of them are probably utterly useless without an ork behind the trigger.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Don't forget that rockets painted yellow make a bigger boom.

Also things that are painted blue are lucky.

Hmm, how about a yellow tip rocket, with a red body, and the warhead (or ork version of) is blue?

The stuff about ork psychic ability is in the 5th edition codex, it basically says that the technology does work, but it is the belief of the orks that allows it to function 'properly' and that some ork technology doesn't work in imperial hands.

It's kinda like... the Ork thinks there's ammo in it, so it does...

The real reason they don't rule the universe, is because they want a nice fight, and don't want it too easy.


and the technology works, because a Mek took scrap and hit it with a hammer, throw in Ork Mentality and a bit of Warp Power, and you get something as "reliable" as a Lasgun.

Of course in an Ork's hands, nothing is "reliable".

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Hmm, how about a yellow tip rocket, with a red body, and the warhead (or ork version of) is blue?

That sounds suitably "Orky" (remember to add green because it's "da best"). I think it's safe to say you're doing it right.

wtf guys are you really having it out like this over shoota?


never thought little green men held so mutch clout.



as happy grunt said GOOD DAY!!!

I recently read the Ork Codex and I'm pretty sure it says something about humans not being able to use Ork weapons.

I just checked and it was on page 10.

It's true that it was a Magos Genetor, but he was writing about how the ork genes work in a way that allows their weapons to work, and that because of this, they do not work in human hands (with the exception of captured weaponry that still works, something a mek made that by luck works, etc.). Dark Heresy is a Fantasy Flight game, and is a good deal less canon than the codices.
Also, although the Genetor "theorizes" this, it's largely supported by the fact that he clearly states that "many captured ork weapons and items of equipment do not work unless wielded by an ork". The imperium has captured ork weaponry, tried to use it and failed. You could argue that it's because they do not know how they work, but ork guns are a simple pull of the trigger, the same as Space Marine bolters or Imperial Guardsmen Lasguns (well not exactly the same, but the basic principle of "pull trigger, gun go dakka" is there).
Furthermore, despite Genetor Lukas' theories lacking solid evidence, the fact that this piece of information exists supports the INTENT of GW to make it clear that, yes, ork weaponry works because they think it should. And of course, the cited source:
GW Ork Codex 4th Ed, Pg. 10 bottom box "Hereditary Skill Acquisition within the Ork caste" last paragraph, lines 5-13.
"...this leads to some rather unlikely conventions. For instance, it is widely believed in ork society that machines painted in red opwerate faster. As disturbing as it sounds, 'facts' such as this become true. Many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment do not work unles wielded by an Ork. I theorise that many ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think they should work - the strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork subconscious somehow ensure they function as desired."
I've been Orks for a while now, and this is one of the very first things I learnt about them, overheard while at my FLGS. I respect your knowledge of the background, but in this case, the majority of the background material points to the Ork Telekinesis theory.
As for the Ciaphas Cain and Marine books, these are novels by the Black Library, that have some relative free reign with the canon. As previously argued, it's quite likely that working ork weaponry does exist, it's just even weaponry that normally wouldn't work (which is implied to be most of what the orks use) works when an ork is using it. Not only that, but GW has come out and said that the Codex material overwrites contradictions from the Black Library.

Dah Dreaded Dreg wrote:As said before, its pretty much anything that will fit in the barrel.

Also, no Ork weapons are rifled, so an Ork could easily just stuff a rock down his barrel and have almost the same accuracy as if he had a manufactured slug.

Lolwut?
So, in the trillions upon trillions of Ork weapons in the 40k galaxy, not a single one is rifled? Even though they often steal the weapons/parts from other races, who probably use rifled barrels to at least some extent?

Sorry, had to bring that up.
It's a big freakin' galaxy in 40k, remember!