Wargames Factory: Why the hate?

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**kronk**

weetyskemian44 wrote:Anymore suggestions for alternative companies? saves me from trawling!
I think the greatcoats make a great sci-fi force, especially if you do a little repositioning and shave down a few bits here and there

I like the mantic games undead. Here are some table top quality pieces I've done.

I'm thinking of getting a box of ghouls, next. For zombees, Ghouls, and Ghasts for my D&D campaign.

**weetyskemian44**

HAH! they are pure comedy! They've taken that whole Bad Taste / Zombieland / Shawn of the dead thing out on these. I like the one with the axe in his head

**LunaHound**

insaniak wrote:
LunaHound wrote:@OP , you'll find out that alot of the people that criticizes none GW brands also fully support GW bad products such as:

Glue, Drills , Air Brush, the list goes on.

So i agree with stompa , its fanboism

You'll also find that a lot of those who criticise non-GW brands are just as critical of GW.

Writing it off as 'fanboi-ism' is simplistic. That may be an aspect of it for some people... but it's not the only reason for it. Or even the main one, I would suspect. For all the frequency with which the term is thrown around in cyberspace, I have met very, very few people who are that one-eyed about GW products... most are perfectly capable of accepting that GW puts out stinkers just like any other company.

I never said or claimed thats the only reason.

**Goliath**

LunaHound wrote:
insaniak wrote:
LunaHound wrote:@OP , you'll find out that alot of the people that criticizes none GW brands also fully support GW bad products such as:

Glue, Drills , Air Brush, the list goes on.

So i agree with stompa , its fanboism

You'll also find that a lot of those who criticise non-GW brands are just as critical of GW.

Writing it off as 'fanboi-ism' is simplistic. That may be an aspect of it for some people... but it's not the only reason for it. Or even the main one, I would suspect. For all the frequency with which the term is thrown around in cyberspace, I have met very, very few people who are that one-eyed about GW products... most are perfectly capable of accepting that GW puts out stinkers just like any other company.

I never said or claimed thats the only reason.

It was however the only reason that you put forth, and you did not say that there were other reasons that you had missed, therefore the assumption that Insaniak made was a fair one.

On Topic:
I do not dislike Wargames Factory as a whole, however I dislike many of their models due to the fact that many of them are relatively un-detailed, and uniform compared to other companies' models, specifically GW models, as they are the only ones that I can easily get hold of, but many other companies as well.

**plastictrees**

See this is great, people that like the models can feel smug and superior because the only people that don't like them are fanatical GW fanboys. People that don't like the models can feel smug and superior because the only people that like them are blinded by obsessive GW hate.

Or people can just buy and use whatever models they like, critique them as they see fit and not worry about that pigeonholing you for no reason.

**brettz123**

@HBMC

Why would you really even bother comparing Wargames Factory to GW? Aside from the new Great Coats there is almost no overlap in their ranges. Instead you should compare them to another historical company.... say Warlord Games which produces much nicer plastic historicals.

Now I don't like Wargames Factory stuff at all. I think it is poorly sculpted and just plain doesn't look good to me. I think that Warlord gives much better bang for your buck. So I am not sure why people are even bringing up GW in this thread at all.

**I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly**

JOHIRA wrote:
I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:But that is a very disengenuous comparison - I mean, one set of models is professionally painted and photographed, while the other isn't. The GW models have got to be 10 years old, and I assume the WGF models are quite recent. There's not much comparison between the old chaos marauders and, say, the newest GW plastic kits I've seen (IG command squads and sentinels).

As long as the old chaos marauders are being sold by GW, I'd say the comparison is quite fair. GW isn't a baby that needs our protection- when they decide they don't want their current line of Norse-esque barbarians to represent them, they are more than capable of arranging the resources to get them replaced. Until they do, those models are choices GW has made and it is totally fair to judge them as harshly as any of us would like.

That said, there is a key difference between the two sets. WGF's minis are intended to be fairly historical. GW's clearly are not. So they are trying for different aesthetics. As GW's designs get more and more ridiculous, I find myself getting more interested in real historical minis. I'll probably never go full-bore into historical gaming, but I really appreciate that companies like WGF are trying to bridge the historical market into plastics. At the very worst, they broaden the supply of bits available to everyone.

But personally, I'll take a bunch of WGF barbarians in striped pants over GW's overly muscled, giant-weapons-no-one-could-ever-wield-in-real-life barbarians any day.

I'm not really invested in this argument one way or the other - I'm not 'protecting' GW, they're an inernational company and can probably look after themselves! And I agree that if you want some half-naked semi-norse guys, GW is definitely not the company to go to. I was just pointing out that saying "A: well painted models photographed by a professional and B: mediocrely-painted, poorly photographed models" are the respective qualities of two producers, is not really very conclusive evidence.

I think I can join in with several other people and say, whenever you buy a model for something, buy whichever option looks best, provided you can afford it, and sod anyone who calls you a fanboy, conformist, radical anarchist, tasteless clown, etc.

**kenshin620**

brettz123 wrote:@HBMC

Why would you really even bother comparing Wargames Factory to GW? Aside from the new Great Coats there is almost no overlap in their ranges. Instead you should compare them to another historical company.... say Warlord Games which produces much nicer plastic historicals.

Now I don't like Wargames Factory stuff at all. I think it is poorly sculpted and just plain doesn't look good to me. I think that Warlord gives much better bang for your buck. So I am not sure why people are even bringing up GW in this thread at all.

Hmm yes I think warlord got the better models

But they have some funny painters

**Nurglitch**

Does anyone have some shots of Wargames Factory Zombies lying around?

**Athera**

Imperial wrote:I've noticed a ton of people seem to have a very profound dislike of anything made by Wargames Factory.

Sure the models aren't the same quality in detail as Games Workshop's own plastic sets but for the price tag and the amount of models I think it's a pretty alright deal.

I just bought my first set of them (The zombies) Sure they are a bit smaller than 28mm but it's worth it for the price I got them and the amount I can build.

The internet is for trolling.

**H.B.M.C.**

brettz123 wrote:Why would you really even bother comparing Wargames Factory to GW? Aside from the new Great Coats there is almost no overlap in their ranges. Instead you should compare them to another historical company.... say Warlord Games which produces much nicer plastic historicals.

Now I don't like Wargames Factory stuff at all. I think it is poorly sculpted and just plain doesn't look good to me. I think that Warlord gives much better bang for your buck. So I am not sure why people are even bringing up GW in this thread at all.

Hang on, whoa, wait - stop for a second. What? I wasn't comparing them. All I've said so far is that I think we should foster the growth of new companies, and made a snide remark about people going after Wargames Factory in the same way people launch themselves at the throat of Scibor, another company just doing what they do yet for some reason people feel an extreme need to bring them down.

I don't think WGF's models are as good as GW's - not in the slightest - and to be honest I've never been all that enthralled with their miniature lines myself. But I'm not going to denigrate them over this fact. They're new! Not everyone starts out at a master at life, and these guys are just starting out in the business. I think their bold use of emerging plastic technology is good, and once their sculpting improves they can marry the two to make a series of excellent models. It just takes time.

I guess that means that most people here are just impatient.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Because for a certain kind of personality, hatred is vital. They need it to survive, they huddle around it to stay warm, they breathe it in until it seeps through every artery of their vile bodies. Or because they're teenagers. Take your pick.

So which one of those two are you, Aggy?

**RisingPhoenix**

Are we truly holding up the company that made the Dark Eldar as the be all and end all of sculpted quality?

Wargames factory looks fine to me. Not highest quality, but when you're putting 100 or more minis on the table, who cares? Not a skirmish game. Haven't bought any yet, but I can see it.

**NAVARRO**

H.B.M.C. wrote: made a snide remark about people going after Wargames Factory in the same way people launch themselves at the throat of Scibor, another company just doing what they do yet for some reason people feel an extreme need to bring them down.

Mate I stopped commenting Scibor threads years ago but much like WF there are actually justifiable reasons that escape your general notion of "Haters just want to bring it down"... you probably dont know them and lets leave it at that because nothing good will come from it.
What I do say is that to me both extreme sides that just like to give generalized rotules about others ussually dont know rats ass.

Everyone has individual preferences and reasons to decide to critic what they want and calling them haters or fanboy just because they have a divergent opinion to yours is so simplistic that is kind of a pointless exercise.

**H.B.M.C.**

NAVARRO wrote:Mate I stopped commenting Scibor threads years ago but much like WF there are actually justifiable reasons that escape your general notion of "Haters just want to bring it down"... you probably dont know them and lets leave it at that because nothing good will come from it.

And as long as it was a justified reason and not simply because Scibor uses press-moulds, then that's fine. The way some people acted around here it was almost as if press moulds were to the sculpting world what recasts are to the 2nd hand miniature market.

**CT GAMER**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:.

Frankly I'd certainly take a scifi greatcoat over a razorgor, minotaur, obliterator or indeed much of the catachan range.

+1

**brettz123**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

I don't think WGF's models are as good as GW's - not in the slightest - and to be honest I've never been all that enthralled with their miniature lines myself. But I'm not going to denigrate them over this fact. They're new! Not everyone starts out at a master at life, and these guys are just starting out in the business. I think their bold use of emerging plastic technology is good, and once their sculpting improves they can marry the two to make a series of excellent models. It just takes time.

Ok fair enough I think we mostly agree I am just putting forward my reasons for thinking the models are subpar. However, just because I think they are not top quality miniatures doesn't mean that there is no place for them. They are cheap which is a plus. And in fairness they have gotten higher quality over the course of their releases and they have gotten a better hold on their supply issues.

**plastictrees**

RisingPhoenix wrote:Are we truly holding up the company that made the Dark Eldar as the be all and end all of sculpted quality?

No...we're not. The only people comparing them to GW models are people saying that other people are blinded by GW fanboyism. It's quite possible for a model to just not be that great without comparing it to barely conceptually related models.

Do you want a comparison to GW models? Because they aren't as crisp and finely sculpted as Cadians, and don't fit together as nicely. But that doesn't matter if you don't like the look of Cadians and want cheap space soldiers in greatcoats.
Sculpting quality is not directly related to model design.

**NAVARRO**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:Mate I stopped commenting Scibor threads years ago but much like WF there are actually justifiable reasons that escape your general notion of "Haters just want to bring it down"... you probably dont know them and lets leave it at that because nothing good will come from it.

And as long as it was a justified reason and not simply because Scibor uses press-moulds, then that's fine. The way some people acted around here it was almost as if press moulds were to the sculpting world what recasts are to the 2nd hand miniature market.

There were more polemic reasons on the table at that time. Really sad stuff... But the reason of pressmoulds alone is justifiable enough for some people to not finding scibor stuff interesting... its a valid reason as any other. Does anyone who dislikes that particular kind of stuff and critics it, is somewhat less legitimated or a hater? Its a big world and everyone has its own reasons to like or dislike something.

**nels1031**

RisingPhoenix wrote:Are we truly holding up the company that made the Dark Eldar as the be all and end all of sculpted quality?

Wargames factory looks fine to me. Not highest quality, but when you're putting 100 or more minis on the table, who cares? Not a skirmish game. Haven't bought any yet, but I can see it.

Dark Eldar were released 12 years ago...not the fairest comparison.

And even still, some of the DE range stands the test of time. Incubi and their special character still look cool, the female wyches and their special character (not really of fan of the dude wyches myself), the raider and ravager, as well as the jet bikes are still pretty decent by todays standards. The rest blows, yes, but back in the day they were fairly awesome.

I agree with you on WGF though, not high quality, but get the job done. Personally they haven't released anything yet that makes my wallet jump out of my pocket, but they'll get there, I'm sure. Never been critical of them though, as I try not to be critical of anyone that can do something better than myself, as a general rule. My sculpting sucks.

I think the "hate" just stems from folks wanting cheap DKoK and they were let down that the greatcoats aren't what they wanted them to be.

**poipo32**

I don't hate on Wargames Factory.
I hate on their zombies and greatcoats because they are really underdetailed.
Which is disappointing as some of their sculpts are very good especially for the price, just the 2 most mainstream thing they did have really bad sculpts (and their horses).
For instance their Zulu War minis are pretty good.

**chromedog**

I have seen GW/Citadels plastic models go from craptacular to almost adequate in the last 30 years. They have recently acquired the company that made their plastics for them, and will be buying out the die maker that they get to custom make their dies along with this.

Who's to say WF can't do the same thing, without the need to go with bloated "high street" storefrontage and the overheads that entails, given the same time.

The fanbois probably even like the zombie clown necromancer figure from GW (ne'er its name shall be spake).

**H.B.M.C.**

NAVARRO wrote:But the reason of pressmoulds alone is justifiable enough for some people to not finding scibor stuff interesting... its a valid reason as any other. Does anyone who dislikes that particular kind of stuff and critics it, is somewhat less legitimated or a hater? Its a big world and everyone has its own reasons to like or dislike something.

It is a valid reason not to like them - that's fine - but not to attack Scibor personally for it. Plus I speak more to the hyperbole of it all, and the way press moulds were used as some sort of rallying point of hatred. Then again, Scibor's use of press moulds might have just bee a scapegoat for the other issues you allude to. Who know? My point is, hating someone because they use press moulds is different to hating the models because they use press moulds.

**ph34r**

My problem with Scibor wasn't the use of press moulds, but the huge mismatch of detail/quality between the manually sculpted parts and the moulded parts. On 70% of the model there is this crisp exact detail, and on the rest its kinda blobby "eh" quality.

**Agamemnon2**

chromedog wrote:I have seen GW/Citadels models go from craptacular to almost adequate in the last 30 years.

Who's to say WF can't do the same thing, without the need to go with bloated "high street" storefrontage and the overheads that entails, given the same time.

Well then, let's reconvene in 2030 and see what happened. Personally, I doubt either company will be in business at that point.

**NAVARRO**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:But the reason of pressmoulds alone is justifiable enough for some people to not finding scibor stuff interesting... its a valid reason as any other. Does anyone who dislikes that particular kind of stuff and critics it, is somewhat less legitimated or a hater? Its a big world and everyone has its own reasons to like or dislike something.

It is a valid reason not to like them - that's fine - but not to attack Scibor personally for it. Plus I speak more to the hyperbole of it all, and the way press moulds were used as some sort of rallying point of hatred. Then again, Scibor's use of press moulds might have just bee a scapegoat for the other issues you allude to. Who know? My point is, hating someone because they use press moulds is different to hating the models because they use press moulds.

I agree, besides there's never a valid reason to attack someone personally on a forum.
I think your reply sums up what I was trying to say from the begining, theres a huge diference between critisizing a model and being a hater for the sake of it and in this thread many are probably confusing the "hate" for WF with just genuine and justified critics to the products on the table.
If the models quality is less than average yet cheaper, I can see lots of potential negative reviews landing on forums... Even with great quality products ( i remember old rackham) there were some of those harsher reviews, imagine WF.

**kenshin620**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
chromedog wrote:I have seen GW/Citadels models go from craptacular to almost adequate in the last 30 years.

Who's to say WF can't do the same thing, without the need to go with bloated "high street" storefrontage and the overheads that entails, given the same time.

Well then, let's reconvene in 2030 and see what happened. Personally, I doubt either company will be in business at that point.

Hmm I feel the same. Mainly cause I think 3D printers would make a breakthrough one of these days.

**NAVARRO**

kenshin620 wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
chromedog wrote:I have seen GW/Citadels models go from craptacular to almost adequate in the last 30 years.

Who's to say WF can't do the same thing, without the need to go with bloated "high street" storefrontage and the overheads that entails, given the same time.

Well then, let's reconvene in 2030 and see what happened. Personally, I doubt either company will be in business at that point.

Hmm I feel the same. Mainly cause I think 3D printers would make a breakthrough one of these days.

As much as 2d printers killed fine arts?

**Absolutionis**

NAVARRO wrote:
kenshin620 wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
chromedog wrote:I have seen GW/Citadels models go from craptacular to almost adequate in the last 30 years.

Who's to say WF can't do the same thing, without the need to go with bloated "high street" storefrontage and the overheads that entails, given the same time.

Well then, let's reconvene in 2030 and see what happened. Personally, I doubt either company will be in business at that point.

Hmm I feel the same. Mainly cause I think 3D printers would make a breakthrough one of these days.

As much as 2d printers killed fine arts?

Agreed. 2D printers haven't killed CCGs, there's no reason to believe 3D printing will kill Miniatures.

**kenshin620**

Absolutionis wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:
kenshin620 wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
chromedog wrote:I have seen GW/Citadels models go from craptacular to almost adequate in the last 30 years.

Who's to say WF can't do the same thing, without the need to go with bloated "high street" storefrontage and the overheads that entails, given the same time.

Well then, let's reconvene in 2030 and see what happened. Personally, I doubt either company will be in business at that point.

Hmm I feel the same. Mainly cause I think 3D printers would make a breakthrough one of these days.

As much as 2d printers killed fine arts?
Agreed. 2D printers haven't killed CCGs, there's no reason to believe 3D printing will kill Miniatures.

You dont see people complaining that magic cards are expensive (unless you're one of those guys that NEED x4 Jace the Mind Sculptors

)

**Grundz**

I like my greatcoats.

yes, a few of the bits don't have the greatest detail, and they didn't add much detail to parts of the model that you can't see (like the armpit where the rifle rests)

The only real mortal sin of them is the lack of ball joints in the arms and no joint in the waist, making posing a pain in the ass to post them.

but really, for almost 2 full squads of guys at 2/3 of the cost of a GW squad, deal with it.