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The vespid gun. One shot from a BS3 model at assault-me-next-turn range, and the AP3 is somehow supposed to make it better?

But I think I remember seeing somebody's stats showing that a spinefist actually makes you worse at shooting...

BearersOfSalvation wrote:Sternguard storm bolters. You pay 5 points a model to get one extra shot when charging and at 12-24", and give up the special ammo, which is the squad's main special ability.

Storm Bolters in general are a decent weapon, but when put on certain units, it's far less effective. I would agree that Storm Bolters are close to useless on Sternguard, but as a weapon in general I think they're great, as far as effective weapons go.

I'll have to agree with Lasgun being the worst gun. But like others have voiced, when playing IG, it's not in the strength of the shot that matters, but the quantity of them.

Kurgash wrote:Tyranid Spinefist

Spinefists are assault, 18" threat range (6" move + 12" shoot), twin-linked (hit 75% of the time instead of 50% of the time for a lasgun shot), and AP5 (meaning they kill 33% more guardsmen too.) They can be shot then charge into assault on same turn.

They're certainly not amazing, but I wouldn't say they're terrible. They fit what tyranid troopers want to do perfectly. (Move up while shooting, shoot then assault.)

I'm gonna toss one out there
Pulse Carbines for Fire Warriors. Replacing the 30" S5 AP5 rapid-fire gun with an 18" S5 AP5 1-shot gun.
Now the stats aren't completely awful, but
10 points for 1 shot at BS3 S5 AP5 only 18" (meaning within the assault range of a jetpack/biker.)

Also, sniper rifle on a guardsman. 10 points for heavy 1, 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, AP6. It takes 5-6 sniper rifle shots to kill a single regular guardsman. That's an entire game stationary un-killed to only bring down 1 basic trooper.

I don't know about the worst gun, but I know what the best one is! Grot blastas!

I have seen marines, obliterators, terminators, Daemon Princes (yes, plural), you name it dropped by grot blastas. What is more triumphant than a warrior elevated to Daemonhood by the Ruinous Powers being torn apart by the might of a handful of the worst weapons orks have to offer, wielded by the dregs of ork society?!

Grot blastas FTW!!!

Eldar Shuriken catapults are pretty craptastic. 12 inch please assault me range on units that suck in assault.

The lasgun is said to be one of the most reliable guns in the 4th ed codex. Its mag can be recharged and put in fire for emergency recharging if necessary.

Game wise, I believe more of my space marines were killed by lasguns than sluggas...

revackey wrote:The lasgun is said to be one of the most reliable guns in the 4th ed codex. Its mag can be recharged and put in fire for emergency recharging if necessary.

Game wise, I believe more of my space marines were killed by lasguns than sluggas...

But have you been shot by sluggas as often as by lasguns and in the same quantity?

Also, were the lasguns boosted by being on veterans / given special orders (First rank fire! Second rank fire!) ?

Sluggas are a pistol so they don't count in a "worst gun" contest. Pistols are a combat side gear item. S4 AP6 for slugga is better than the Laspistol which is S3 AP- 12" range 1 shot.

18" S4 AP6 Assault 2 basic 'Shoota' is superior to the 12/24" S3 AP- Lasgun.

A group of 20 Conscripts hit more than 20 boys with sluggas... I'm sorry didn't know they didnt count/

I have to give it to the lasgun-class flashlight. Ignoring BS (the thread is worst gun, not worst shooter), the Lasgun is a Range 24" S3 AP- Rapid Fire Weapon up against the shoota which is Range 18" S4 AP6 Assault 2. I think that the shoota is better given the greater strength, AP, and the assault characteristic, so the lasgun is the worst gun.

Were that the case, then the laspistol would actually beat it.

It was just BS + gun, the mekboyz KMB would take the cake. It has about equal chance of killing a marine in cover as it has killing itself. 1/3 hit. 5/6 of hits wound, 1/2 saves. .138 dead marines. 1/6 get hot. 1/6 save. Ends up being .138 dead mek boyz. So freaking stupid its not funny.

Snotzooka, the Mek's devilish weapon.

You're all wrong, the most useless weapon is a Strangleweb. You must pay 10 points for this joke of a weapon, and you lose 1 S3 Ap5 Fleshborer shot in order to use a S2 Ap- template.

S2 Ap-. Need I say more.

People may say "oh but it causes Pinning...", yeah, if it actually manages to wound something, and with a 22% chance of killing a Guardsman, you won't be seeing any Pinned units anytime soon.

Grey Templar wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Tau pulse rifle.

Yeah, I said it. Its probably more due to the fact that the firewarrior is the total suck and spends 4 of the 5-6 game turns hiding in a D-fish.

But for the points you pay 10 points for each gun, and they don't do anything all game long.

i beg to differ, the Carbine is clearly worse as pinning is worthless against most units you would want pinned and Assault1 with a 12" range is simply stupid.

God the carbine is so bad.

I have to interhect now.

firstly, I'm suprised that noones mentioned shotguns [which, IMO are very effective against anything that would hit at the same time or faster then it in combat [SM, 'nids]]

crazyK wrote:IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

As for this comment, I beg to differ.

Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing, and even with a guardsman, it's only a 1,1 1,2 1,3 1,4 or a 1/9 chance that you'll die. and, I see it as: I'm risking a 26 points on a single tactical marine with a plasma gun, and that gun has a 67% chance of killing a terminator. or a 18/27 chance.

of course, it's worth naught on against anything where the armour value doesn't justify it's use [Sv5+, for example.]

Seconding the strangleweb

or if that fails not a fan of the EarthShaker gun in normal sized games

Captain Solon wrote:I have to interhect now.

crazyK wrote:IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

As for this comment, I beg to differ.

Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing, and even with a guardsman, it's only a 1,1 1,2 1,3 1,4 or a 1/9 chance that you'll die. and, I see it as: I'm risking a 26 points on a single tactical marine with a plasma gun, and that gun has a 67% chance of killing a terminator. or a 18/27 chance.

of course, it's worth naught on against anything where the armour value doesn't justify it's use [Sv5+, for example.]

Gets Hot weapons AUTOWOUND the model (or unit) firing them.. they can take an armor save, but the wound is automatic. GOD, I would love it if there was a wound roll in there.. but.. nope.

I have lost track of how many times a Chaplain has offed himself with his shiney plasma pistol..

porkuslime wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:I have to interhect now.

crazyK wrote:IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

As for this comment, I beg to differ.

Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing, and even with a guardsman, it's only a 1,1 1,2 1,3 1,4 or a 1/9 chance that you'll die. and, I see it as: I'm risking a 26 points on a single tactical marine with a plasma gun, and that gun has a 67% chance of killing a terminator. or a 18/27 chance.

of course, it's worth naught on against anything where the armour value doesn't justify it's use [Sv5+, for example.]

Gets Hot weapons AUTOWOUND the model (or unit) firing them.. they can take an armor save, but the wound is automatic. GOD, I would love it if there was a wound roll in there.. but.. nope.

I have lost track of how many times a Chaplain has offed himself with his shiney plasma pistol..

dont give him plasma pistol simple

Yes, plasma burns, but 3 plasma guns taking down a trygon in a single volley more than attests to its usefulness.

And the earthshaker cannon can fire directly. It's an LRBT cannon with +1S and the ability to fire indirectly. Clearly not the worst weapon in the game.

oh i thougth only melta was only competive special weapon? /sarc
why should you plasma its ranged and can hurt tanks so by your locic its bad is it Ailaros?

Tryannofex's Fleshborer hive range 12 str 4 ap 5 heavy 20.
It is bs3. The base cost for him with this weapon is 260 points.

Pulse Pistol. Maybe 2 models in a list can have it. Need to upgrade the ejector seat on a crisis suit to get it. And I think Etherals can take them, which as bad as they are just ups the worst of this.

Almost Best and worst gun belong to the Tau.

Edit: I think the best is the Maw on the soul grinder due to it's diversity.

porkuslime wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing,

Gets Hot weapons AUTOWOUND the model (or unit) firing them.. they can take an armor save, but the wound is automatic. GOD, I would love it if there was a wound roll in there.. but.. nope.

Why are you saying this in response to Solon? He didn't put a wound roll in his calculations. The first roll is the hit roll (has to be a 1 to get hot), the second is the armor save (make it on a 3+, so have to get a 1 or 2 to fail).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rurouni Benshin wrote:Storm Bolters in general are a decent weapon, but when put on certain units, it's far less effective. I would agree that Storm Bolters are close to useless on Sternguard, but as a weapon in general I think they're great, as far as effective weapons go.

I'm not saying that they have close to zero use, I'm saying that Sternguard Stormbolters have negative use - you spend points to remove your ability to use the unit's primary special rule. Some of the other guns listed may be weak, but none of them involve paying points to remove something as good as the ability to pick between AP3, 36" range, wound on 2+, and ignore cover shots!

porkuslime wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:I have to interhect now.

crazyK wrote:IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

As for this comment, I beg to differ.

Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing, and even with a guardsman, it's only a 1,1 1,2 1,3 1,4 or a 1/9 chance that you'll die. and, I see it as: I'm risking a 26 points on a single tactical marine with a plasma gun, and that gun has a 67% chance of killing a terminator. or a 18/27 chance.

of course, it's worth naught on against anything where the armour value doesn't justify it's use [Sv5+, for example.]

Gets Hot weapons AUTOWOUND the model (or unit) firing them.. they can take an armor save, but the wound is automatic. GOD, I would love it if there was a wound roll in there.. but.. nope.

I have lost track of how many times a Chaplain has offed himself with his shiney plasma pistol..

what he is saying is that firstly you need to roll a 1 to take a Gets Hot wound and THEN you need to fail you 3+ armor.

a Marine has a 5% chance of death everytime he fires a Gets Hot weapon.

if he has FNP it goes down the 2.5%

Ah..his 1, 2 or 1, 1 read to me like a fumble, then a wound roll.

My reading comprehension fail.

Apologies.

Grey Templar wrote:

porkuslime wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:I have to interhect now.

crazyK wrote:IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

As for this comment, I beg to differ.

Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing, and even with a guardsman, it's only a 1,1 1,2 1,3 1,4 or a 1/9 chance that you'll die. and, I see it as: I'm risking a 26 points on a single tactical marine with a plasma gun, and that gun has a 67% chance of killing a terminator. or a 18/27 chance.

of course, it's worth naught on against anything where the armour value doesn't justify it's use [Sv5+, for example.]

Gets Hot weapons AUTOWOUND the model (or unit) firing them.. they can take an armor save, but the wound is automatic. GOD, I would love it if there was a wound roll in there.. but.. nope.

I have lost track of how many times a Chaplain has offed himself with his shiney plasma pistol..

what he is saying is that firstly you need to roll a 1 to take a Gets Hot wound and THEN you need to fail you 3+ armor.

a Marine has a 5% chance of death everytime he fires a Gets Hot weapon.

if he has FNP it goes down the 2.5%

If a marine fails to hit it has a 50/50 chance to wound himself that's just crazy!! If you put 1000 marines with plasmas against a grot (armed with the mighty grot blasta) the marines only manage to themselves.

50%!!

If a marine fails to hit it has a 50/50 chance to wound himself that's just crazy!! If you put 1000 marines with plasmas against a grot (armed with the mighty grot blasta) the marines only manage to themselves.

50%!!

Your statistics are not really objective. I mean, you could go on and say "If a marine fails to hit and doesn't roll a 2 then he has a 100% chance of wounding himself!!!"

When you look at the complete act of firing the weapon, including shots that hit, that gives you a much more objective statistic in my opinion. It was already stated above, the total chance of a Marine killing himself with his plasma gun every shot is 5,56%, this already includes his armor save. Comparing this with the potential chance of killing a 40-points-plus Terminator or equally heavy armored target (2+/5++) - 37,04% - I would argue that it is worth the risk to fire a plasma gun.

Shuriken Catapult.

Not because it's terrible, but because of where it is and what it's supposed to accomplish. As a main troop weapon, it's completely ineffective.

It gets to fire exactly zero times. Anything that wants to assault and isn't moving at footspeed (which is everything that wants to assault) goes from being outside its range to in assault in one of their own turns.

Even pretending they do get to shoot it, there's going to be enough left of whatever it shot at to erase those Guardians that shot it from history on the next turn.

Witzkatz wrote:I mean, you could go on and say "If a marine fails to hit and doesn't roll a 2 then he has a 100% chance of wounding himself!!!"

QFT

Witzkatz wrote:

If a marine fails to hit it has a 50/50 chance to wound himself that's just crazy!! If you put 1000 marines with plasmas against a grot (armed with the mighty grot blasta) the marines only manage to themselves.

50%!!

Your statistics are not really objective. I mean, you could go on and say "If a marine fails to hit and doesn't roll a 2 then he has a 100% chance of wounding himself!!!"

When you look at the complete act of firing the weapon, including shots that hit, that gives you a much more objective statistic in my opinion. It was already stated above, the total chance of a Marine killing himself with his plasma gun every shot is 5,56%, this already includes his armor save. Comparing this with the potential chance of killing a 40-points-plus Terminator or equally heavy armored target (2+/5++) - 37,04% - I would argue that it is worth the risk to fire a plasma gun.

I was being sarcastic.