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I game regularly at 2 different LGS's, and amongst the gamers at both locations, Marine players are actually the minority. Whether that be because of lack of interest in Marines or despising of Marines, there aren't that many Marine players, at least Vanilla Marine players anyway.

That being said, I am a proud owner of over 15,000 points of Ultramarines, have always enjoyed playing them, and will continue enjoy playing them for as long as I want.

There certainly are a lot of marine players out there, the manager of my local GW reckons he sells one SM box/blister for every non SM box/blister. Weirdly though on the games evenings there are very few marine armies, most of which are inevitably Blood Angels or Space Wolves. It seems that there are more Tau and IG players who turn up for games than anything else. Plus I know of at least 6 people who will be starting DE armies. So SM players are quite an oddity in my area. The upshot of this is that for a Tale of Four Gamers style event my local GW will be running shortly my choice of Black Templars will make me the person with the most original army next to the horde of DE that will be making an appearance.

Oh and I have no qualms about being a (Chaos) Space Marine player as I'm the sort of person who will eventually have one of everything. My first army was Dark Angels so for me not to have a marine army at any point would be a little odd. What disappoints me is the number of people who play BA or SW simply because they win a lot. I overheard a conversation between some kids who were debating about whether one of them should play Eldar or Space Wolves, and all they focussed on was which army would win the most games. It's no wonder there are so many WAAC players out there. Whatever happened to choosing an army based on play style or how much you like the models? It's always been how I've chosen which armies to play.

I don't mind Space Marines. What I do mind is people who power hop from new codex to new codex. Not even getting a new army, just counts-asing their Space Marines as whatever new codex is out, and maybe buying one or two of the specialist squads in it.

Pick a chapter, stick to it. I didn't counts-as my Salamanders as something else when GW decided to make them initiative 3 with no perks.

Yeah, well said there Nick. I agree with you completely. Except for playing CSM you Heretic scum! Just kidding!

It's very true, I started when I was a kid with Space Marines because...well, come on, who doesn't want to be a space marine!

That being said, when I started again after a huge fifteen year break, I went straight for IG and they are cool too, but I still bought some marines along the way because I still love the models and it makes sense to me.

Of course, once I had a good look at the Ork models and also the Tyrannids I was a little swayed, so now I reckon I'll do some of them too when I have the time and money. That will be mostly because I love the models rather than any sense of imaginary loyalty.

Of course I will never play Necrons!

I recall an old veteran's quote:

"There are two types of Marine Players; people who collect marines and marines only, and the rest of the playerbase."

I dunno at my FLGS there seems to be a wide range of armies. SM are probably the most numerous but not by much. Tyranids, Orks and CSM also seem to be very popular.

SM are the GW poster boys so I guess that's one of the reasons why there are more of these. Each box box set incarnation of the editions has had SM so it's a good foundation for new players to buiild up an army base on.

Maybe if they released 6ed with Necrons and Tau you might see an increase of there armies

-Loki- wrote:I don't mind Space Marines. What I do mind is people who power hop from new codex to new codex. Not even getting a new army, just counts-asing their Space Marines as whatever new codex is out, and maybe buying one or two of the specialist squads in it.

Pick a chapter, stick to it. I didn't counts-as my Salamanders as something else when GW decided to make them initiative 3 with no perks.

This so hard it hurts. I have nothing but contempt for no-skill codex hopping nublets that band wagon to the latest flavor of the month codex with their grey-marines. They can't play, can't paint, can't think. Only reason they exist is because it's easier for the GW money machine to pump out more crap to feed them than to make a quality product.

Here the main part of players are split pretty evenly between Marines and IG. There is a scattering of other races bar Necrons and Dark Eldar. I honestly don't know why anyone hasn't started these armies up. (no doubt with the new DE codex that will change)

>.> Out of the 'local' gamers I know, there's 2 3rd ED PDF BA players, 2 DE players, 1 ork, 1 Chaos, 1 guard...

Flaming_Spider wrote:

avantgarde wrote:The 13th Black Crusade where Abaddon once again feths up royal and everything returns to the status quo? The 13th Black Crusade that was part of the Eye of Terror campaign seven years ago? Cause from what you're saying it doesn't sound like we're talking about the same 13th Black Crusade.

Yes, I probably have my timeline wrong. And Abaddon didn't feth up that bad, just got trapped on Cadia without orbital support. As of now, Chaos controls most of the planet, but they cannot be reinforced or resupplied, so it's only a matter of time before the Imperium takes it back.

By matter of time, the time it takes to warm up the gunnery.

"We're Chaos Marines Hurr!"
Boom
"now you're dead."
Imperium wins! New galactic crusade. First up, lets take a breather and wipe out the Tau...

Honestly I wouldn´t have any problem with their hegemony if they weren´t so dull to play and to look at. Their core model range, while decent is probably the blandest of the whole 40k. And their tanks are undoubtely the ugliest.

That GW keep doing more and more characters for them whom looks basically the same in their Buzz Lightyear armor while other armies with way more interesting and wider aesthetical possibilities remain completely ostracized , irks me a bit too.

Wiglaf wrote:Honestly I wouldn´t have any problem with their hegemony if they weren´t so dull to play and to look at. Their core model range, while decent is probably the blandest of the whole 40k. And their tanks are undoubtely the ugliest.

I think the dull to play/look at thing depends entirely on how you approach the army. Kitbashing using various conversion packs/box sets from FW and GW allows a lot of personalisation amongst the army. For example the Marshal in my new Black Templar army which I mentioned in my previous post uses a combination of SM Commander and Black Templar parts to produce what I feel is a characterful model. Ok that's a fairly normal kitbash but it is still different to the norm which for a lot of SM armies does seem to involve copying what's on the box. As for dull to play they're only as dull as you make them, the various SM codecies allow for a huge variety in army type it's the players own fault if they come up with an army that's boring to play with. No one should feel constrained by what popular opinion calls the best tactics or best lists. Instead experiment with unpopular units, try unconventional tactics or build themed armies.

Having a lot of marine players doesn't bother me. With a number of marine codexes available and varying army builds they can play pretty differently. Having a lot of any faction wouldn't bother me, as long as there's some variety in the armies themselves. Lots of Ork players who all do battlewagon spam? Ho hum. Lots of Ork players who do battlewagon spam, horde, deffwing, speed freaks, kan bash, mix? Awesome.

In the Grim Darkness that is the future we need all the Space Marines we can get.

-Loki- wrote:I don't mind Space Marines. What I do mind is people who power hop from new codex to new codex. Not even getting a new army, just counts-asing their Space Marines as whatever new codex is out, and maybe buying one or two of the specialist squads in it.

Pick a chapter, stick to it. I didn't counts-as my Salamanders as something else when GW decided to make them initiative 3 with no perks.

This. A million times this. Every gaming group has the individual who hops from Codex to Codex, fielding the newest netlist, revlling in his lopsided wins, and never, ever applying paint to a model. Paint would make it objectionable to field an army as whatever the new hotness is!
I'm sooo looking forward to Dire Avengers played as counts-as Sybarite Warriors or whatever. Not.

-Loki- wrote:I don't mind Space Marines. What I do mind is people who power hop from new codex to new codex. Not even getting a new army, just counts-asing their Space Marines as whatever new codex is out, and maybe buying one or two of the specialist squads in it.

Pick a chapter, stick to it. I didn't counts-as my Salamanders as something else when GW decided to make them initiative 3 with no perks.

This is definately the biggest problem. While marines by themselves aren't the problem, I agree it is the "power hop" players that get out of control. The fact that most marines look a like makes this even harder to avoid.

TheRhino wrote:This. A million times this. Every gaming group has the individual who hops from Codex to Codex, fielding the newest netlist, revlling in his lopsided wins, and never, ever applying paint to a model. Paint would make it objectionable to field an army as whatever the new hotness is!

The only problem is that a person could paint his army whatever scheme he wants and claim it as a successor chapter. So this month he could be a space wolf codex, next month a blood angel and, the month after that a "normal" space marine codex army and there's nothing you can say about it.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

TheRhino wrote:This. A million times this. Every gaming group has the individual who hops from Codex to Codex, fielding the newest netlist, revlling in his lopsided wins, and never, ever applying paint to a model. Paint would make it objectionable to field an army as whatever the new hotness is!

The only problem is that a person could paint his army whatever scheme he wants and claim it as a successor chapter. So this month he could be a space wolf codex, next month a blood angel and, the month after that a "normal" space marine codex army and there's nothing you can say about it.

No, you can't really do anything about it, but it's definitely detrimental to the hobby side of, well, the hobby. I don't mind people who play to win, but that form of it is ridiculous.

One of my friends hopped between chapters. But at least he had the good grace to buy and paint a 1500pt list whenever he did, and never did the counts-asing.

TheRhino wrote:When I first started the game, and wanted to pick an army, I wanted something that looked solid, could take a beating and keep playing, and had rules that could mimic my time in the USMC. Someone recommended Guard, because they played more like real military units, and weren't 8-foot-tall supermen. I pointed out that clearly the person had never met a US Marine in real life

So true.

I was thinking about it and realised that I have enough Marine bits and pieces to make a small Chaos army (about 1000 - 1500 points) without buying any more models. They'd probably be more renegade like, not much in the way of horns and adornments, but after Grey Hunters basic Chaos Marines are one of the best troops in the game. If they had ATSKNF they'd be the best.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Maybe if they released 6ed with Necrons and Tau you might see an increase of there armies

There are several good reasons for this, many stated already.

I think the biggest are they are really cool looking overall, and they are easy to play. They are very well rounded, doing everything pretty well. There isnt much of a learning curve to them. Many other armies, Im looking at you in particularly Eldar, must be set up and used correctly or you get worked. That leaves them specially suited to experienced players.

The problem is, with a lot of new players getting Space Marines because they are easy to use, means they never become better at the game, tactically. They know what units to pick, but the lenient playstyle means there's never a huge risk to different tactics. I know, because I played Space marines for a long time.

When they move onto other armies, they may know the game, but they're going to get hammered game after game as they try to play them like Space Marines. Learning with a different army doesn't take much longer than learning with Space Marines when you initially start, but it certainly takes longer to learn a new army when you have Space marines lenient tactics stuck in your head.

Yeah, there are way too many Marine players. That's that happens when they have like 1/3 of the codexes .

Space Marines, are simply put, awesome.

It's no mystery why so many people play them. As for those who don't, well, there's no accounting for taste.

AzurePhoenix wrote:

TylerCade wrote:It seems to me, sorry if i step on any ones toes here, that space marines are the army you go to when you cant muster the imagination to personify another one.

Not everyone plays boring ultrasmurf clones... some of us actually "muster the imagination" to create our own chapter complete with background, colour schemes and all kinds of other fluff.

That usually "just happen" to have guys that are just like Lysander, Calgar, Vulkan and/or Shrike.

Because busting out a "Sillysander" list and painting them black is the pinnacle of "imagination"

Athera wrote:

AzurePhoenix wrote:

TylerCade wrote:It seems to me, sorry if i step on any ones toes here, that space marines are the army you go to when you cant muster the imagination to personify another one.

Not everyone plays boring ultrasmurf clones... some of us actually "muster the imagination" to create our own chapter complete with background, colour schemes and all kinds of other fluff.

That usually "just happen" to have guys that are just like Lysander, Calgar, Vulkan and/or Shrike.

Because busting out a "Sillysander" list and painting them black is the pinnacle of "imagination"

To be fair, it's the only way you can alter your armies abilities now. They shouldn't have gotten rid of traits. They were abusable, but better than needing to bring a character to make your army different. Creating your own chapter and using the rules for one of the special characters for it, if it fits your theme, isn't really a problem.

Space Marines have the largest allotment of plastic kit and are the proverbial cash cow. The money earned from the sales of SM provides the necessary capital at hand to develop other armies/races. It is what it is.

Well armoured guys with automatic rocket launchers do appeal to everyone, which sadly includes the younger population of 40k players...

Space marines are so popular for several reasons:

A. They are humans. Its logical that people can associate with them well (IG and DH/WH players don't get started with me)
B. They are super soldiers. I.E. Super heroes. So more or less they are Superman/Batman/take your pick. What kid doesn't want to control an army of their choice of superhero?
C. They are "the good guys". For crying out loud they are the freaking saviors of ALL mankind. Not just one planet. Not just some cat that was stuck in a tree. ALL OF MANKIND!!! Who wouldn't want to play as the savior of mankind?
D. They are the face of 40K. Basically everything 40K you see is either of a Space Marine shoving his size 47 boot up the A$$ of (insert alien race here), or its Space Marines defending helpless citizens on some god forsaken rock from (insert alien race here). And the second scenario usually leads to the A$$ beating eventually.

What other race can you say fits all of these qualities?

-Loki- wrote:

Athera wrote:

AzurePhoenix wrote:

TylerCade wrote:It seems to me, sorry if i step on any ones toes here, that space marines are the army you go to when you cant muster the imagination to personify another one.

Not everyone plays boring ultrasmurf clones... some of us actually "muster the imagination" to create our own chapter complete with background, colour schemes and all kinds of other fluff.

That usually "just happen" to have guys that are just like Lysander, Calgar, Vulkan and/or Shrike.

Because busting out a "Sillysander" list and painting them black is the pinnacle of "imagination"

To be fair, it's the only way you can alter your armies abilities now. They shouldn't have gotten rid of traits. They were abusable, but better than needing to bring a character to make your army different. Creating your own chapter and using the rules for one of the special characters for it, if it fits your theme, isn't really a problem.

It is when 4 kids 13 year olds show up at your store with the same army aside from one having a green Sillysander, one with a blue Sillysander, one with a black Sillysander and the "rebel" using a red Calgar and a red Shrike. And they don't want to play each other because the other guys army is "cheese".

Two Manny?

P.S. Elitist much? You know, it is just possible that people you know, really really like their Space Marine army, and don't feel the need to personalise it as they prefer to do accruate heraldry, codex markings etc. And why so many Marine Codecies? Well, it's simple. You piss and moan right now about all Marines being the same, so if we take away the diversity of Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars and Dark Angels, then it will all be just one book, and the army will be even more alike, which means you will piss and moan all the harder, then complain bitterly when a new book for a new Chapter comes out because it's not for your personal favourite army, and as everyone knows, GW is actually run purely on behalf of those who don't play Marines.