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mattyrm wrote:Frankly the older i get the more i think a smattering of good natured family xenophobia is a good thing. They say you get more conservative as you age, do you think this is because your older and wiser?

I mean, who's grandad doesnt hate pretty much everyone?

French Premier Georges Clemenceau wrote:"Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

The talk of Japan makes me wonder: are they not xenophobic, or are they just polite?

Multicultural society doesn't work?

How is it that America managed to emerge from a cultural and linguistic hodgepodge?

Seems pretty functional to me.

dogma wrote:Multicultural society doesn't work?

How is it that America managed to emerge from a cultural and linguistic hodgepodge?

Seems pretty functional to me.

No, what they are saying is that German multiculturalism doesn't work. AKA a horrifyingly bad system of minority integration failed so it must be the fault of the migrants and not the set of immigrant work and rights policies that seem specifically designed to create insular cultural enclaves of minority groups away from germany at large since they were not afforded the same rights to housing or work as those they are supposed to be equal too.

Wait... its Germany's fault that the immigrants aren't learning German?

It may be. If you don't want to teach immigrants a language, then it seems unlikely that they will learn it.

ShumaGorath, what you say about German immigration programs sounds far worse than what I've heard. Could you maybe link some sources for that info?

Witzkatz wrote:ShumaGorath, what you say about German immigration programs sounds far worse than what I've heard. Could you maybe link some sources for that info?

Older postwar "guestwork" programs and immigration booms in the 70's and 80's if my german immigration and work history is up to snuff. Wiki it or something, Iunno.

I've found some information about the subject on wikipedia, about the Gastarbeiter-programs. (Guestwork) The short story seems to be that, because of the economic miracle and a shortage in workforce, Germany made contracts with several countries (Italy for example, too) allowing workers to come to Germany for a period of 1 or 2 years and then return to their homecountry. Furthermore, it seems that especially the German and Turkish government agreed that this would only be a temporary immigration.

However, many Turks decided to stay in Germany, something that wasn't planned by both governments; I guess that might explain why this initial immigration phase wasn't as smooth as it could have been. Foreigners had to live and work in GER for 15 years before being able to get citizenship; this was lowered later to only 8 years, making immigration including a citizenship much easier.

Sooo...sounds sub-optimal, I'll agree on that. However, this seems also to be a rather special case. I'm not sure of many other cases in history where two government had explicit contracts about exchanging workforce for a fixed period of time (and then the guestworkers deciding they want to stay anyway). It seems more common that countries ban immigration from certain countries because of a workforce overflow, like it happened with the Chines Exclusion Act 1882 in the United States.

This discussion made me actually learn something about the background of Turkish immigration in my home country! Quite a feat for something in an off-topic forum.

dogma wrote:Multicultural society doesn't work?

How is it that America managed to emerge from a cultural and linguistic hodgepodge?

Seems pretty functional to me.

You are kidding right?.
You have to arm your police,
your papers dont report most murders or rapes (it's not news worthy).
The south africans got the idea for apartied, from your southern states.

seems pretty fethed up to me

And yet the state functions in perpetuity.

I didn't state that people weren't hurt by the system, I stated that the system was functional.

No one cares about the proles.

In Britian we have a social housing shortage, but immigrants go straight on the list.
Our social fund is stretched to the limit, but immigrants can claim.
We even give them free health care.
all goverment pamphlets are printed in six or maybe sevenl languages, at extra cost.

because they won't learn english.

And because were stupid enough to let them

loki old fart wrote:

And because were stupid

Less of the 'we' if you'd be so kind. I refuse to be bound by your statements.

Ketara wrote:

loki old fart wrote:

And because were stupid

Less of the 'we' if you'd be so kind. I refuse to be bound by your statements.

If we said you can come too Britian but,
you must have a job to go to
provide your own accomodation and have private health care,
Would that be unreasonable?

loki old fart wrote:In Britian we have a social housing shortage, but immigrants go straight on the list.
Our social fund is stretched to the limit, but immigrants can claim.
We even give them free health care.
all goverment pamphlets are printed in six or maybe sevenl languages, at extra cost.

because they won't learn english.

And because were stupid enough to let them

Alright.

Why should I care?

dogma wrote:No one cares about the proles.

What about the Bollocks?

Ahtman wrote:

dogma wrote:No one cares about the proles.

What about the Bollocks?

And what are we going to do about those darned Fraggles siphoning off all the welfare checks and food stamps on the radish black market?

WarOne wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

dogma wrote:No one cares about the proles.

What about the Bollocks?

And what are we going to do about those darned Fraggles siphoning off all the welfare checks and food stamps on the radish black market?

fething freeloaders.

Send them all back to where they came from, I say.

Ahtman wrote:
What about the Bollocks?

Dogs' Bollocks?

It seems a bit unfair to tax people's salaries to pay for the NHS and social security, then deny them healthcare and unemployment benefit.

There sould be a period of time paying in, before entitlement begins

dogma wrote:Multicultural society doesn't work?

How is it that America managed to emerge from a cultural and linguistic hodgepodge?

Seems pretty functional to me.

its the honey subsidy dude. Without the honey subsidy we would be nothing.

That article annoyed me, because it's Dr Merkel, not Mrs. Merkel.

I wonder if she was just speaking of specific policies, rather than the whole thing.

I do find the "dern immigrants" in the UK posts funny, being an immigrant to the UK. But apparently the Irish don't count, because nobody ever seems to think of me that way- I've even had people complain about immigrants TO me

I suppose it's got something to do with the fact that most unemployed irish nip home to get their dole, because it's so much cheaper.
(I guess Irish Travellers are pretty despised in the UK, but that's true in Ireland too)
I thought it was really funny that all the Dakka immigrants to Japan had the same experience with the rubbish! How random.

Da Boss wrote:That article annoyed me, because it's Dr Merkel, not Mrs. Merkel.

I wonder if she was just speaking of specific policies, rather than the whole thing.

I do find the "dern immigrants" in the UK posts funny, being an immigrant to the UK. But apparently the Irish don't count, because nobody ever seems to think of me that way- I've even had people complain about immigrants TO me

I suppose it's got something to do with the fact that most unemployed irish nip home to get their dole, because it's so much cheaper.
(I guess Irish Travellers are pretty despised in the UK, but that's true in Ireland too)
I thought it was really funny that all the Dakka immigrants to Japan had the same experience with the rubbish! How random.

Are the Japanese obsessed with trash or something?

Frazzled wrote:

Da Boss wrote:That article annoyed me, because it's Dr Merkel, not Mrs. Merkel.

I wonder if she was just speaking of specific policies, rather than the whole thing.

I do find the "dern immigrants" in the UK posts funny, being an immigrant to the UK. But apparently the Irish don't count, because nobody ever seems to think of me that way- I've even had people complain about immigrants TO me

I suppose it's got something to do with the fact that most unemployed irish nip home to get their dole, because it's so much cheaper.
(I guess Irish Travellers are pretty despised in the UK, but that's true in Ireland too)
I thought it was really funny that all the Dakka immigrants to Japan had the same experience with the rubbish! How random.

Are the Japanese obsessed with trash or something?

Well, the Japanese do need our scrap iron and oil for their non-building of naval fleets to not create a Pan-asian hegemony and not attack America.

Ahtman wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:ITT Xenophobia and whining.

That was a fun arcade game!

I was disgustingly good at that game. Probably because I played a disgusting amount of it. Later on I even owned the full sized arcade game.

Dr. Kwack FTW!

Back on topic...wait, what was the topic again?

Frazzled wrote:

Da Boss wrote:That article annoyed me, because it's Dr Merkel, not Mrs. Merkel.

I wonder if she was just speaking of specific policies, rather than the whole thing.

I do find the "dern immigrants" in the UK posts funny, being an immigrant to the UK. But apparently the Irish don't count, because nobody ever seems to think of me that way- I've even had people complain about immigrants TO me

I suppose it's got something to do with the fact that most unemployed irish nip home to get their dole, because it's so much cheaper.
(I guess Irish Travellers are pretty despised in the UK, but that's true in Ireland too)
I thought it was really funny that all the Dakka immigrants to Japan had the same experience with the rubbish! How random.

Are the Japanese obsessed with trash or something?

No, it's just that in Japan every neighbourhood has a neighbourhood association part of whose job is to make sure the neighbourhood forms and circulars are circulated, filled in and stamped properly, that local people obey local ordinances (where I live, for example, there is an ordinace that you must have a hedge at the front of your property), look after the local community hall, and so on.

Naturally, this is a marvellous opportunity for middle-aged women who probably aren't getting enough "excitement" to play the little Hitler, Nosey Parker and generally take the chance to upbraid and look down upon people who don't measure up to their persnickety standards.

That said, Japan has well organised recycling, so it is important for people to sort their rubbish and put it out on the right days. There is also a problem with giant crows and raccoon badger-dogs, who get into the edible rubbish if it isn't properly enclosed in a net or cage.

On the plus side, I fully aim to bring WAR to my local community hall.

Frazzled wrote:

Da Boss wrote:That article annoyed me, because it's Dr Merkel, not Mrs. Merkel.

I wonder if she was just speaking of specific policies, rather than the whole thing.

I do find the "dern immigrants" in the UK posts funny, being an immigrant to the UK. But apparently the Irish don't count, because nobody ever seems to think of me that way- I've even had people complain about immigrants TO me

I suppose it's got something to do with the fact that most unemployed irish nip home to get their dole, because it's so much cheaper.
(I guess Irish Travellers are pretty despised in the UK, but that's true in Ireland too)
I thought it was really funny that all the Dakka immigrants to Japan had the same experience with the rubbish! How random.

Are the Japanese obsessed with trash or something?

No, but being the small, crowded place it is, there are no room for landfills, so a lot of trash is burned. And being a small and crowded place, the incinerators are not far removed from people, so there are pretty rigorous guidelines about keeping plastics and other unpleasant stuff from getting mixed in with the burnables. It takes a little getting used to.

Kilkrazy wrote:...little Hitler...

What a scamp!