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It specifically states the embarked unit's weapon. So those people who argue that the old Immolators can't fire because the template hits it's own hull still have that available.

However RaW their argument breaks down as the prohibition is on friendly models. Nothing states you cannot cover your self with the template as you can not be friendly to yourself.

Bzzzzt, wrong.

Corbulo proves you wrong.

Corbulo proves you wrong.

How exactly please explain (i'm not saying you're wrong I just don't have the BA codex to hand to check).

The red grail Grant FC and FNP to all friendly units within 6". The rules then go on to say that Corbulo's FNP rolls(ostensibly from the red grail, as he does not have the rule himself) are better. Therefore he must, himself, be a friendly model within 6" of himself(or the better FNP does not actually do anything unless another Sang Preist is within their FNP bubble of corbulo, but then why is that rule in the red grail rule)

Edit: Spelling and the additional explanation.

Tjhe red grail Grant FC and FNP to all friendly units within 6". The rules then go on to say that Corbulo's FNP rolls(ostensibly from the red grail, as he does not have the rule himself) are better.

Units or Models? Because in this instance it would make a difference. A unit is a collection of one of more things a model is a single entity.

Units. And it still does not matter because a single model is a unit by itself, and a unit is made up of models.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Units. And it still does not matter because a single model is a unit by itself, and a unit is made up of models.

ahh but you are wrong. they are not one in the same. ask your self how the red grail would work if it said it provides furious charge and fnp to models within 6 inches.

Unit != Model although they can be one in the same.

Units. And it still does not matter because a single model is a unit by itself, and a unit is made up of models.

A unit can be friendly to itself because it is not a singular entity even when made up of only 1 model. That is the difference...

Mrdabba - a single model is a unit. As in, a single MC, a single vehicle not in a squadron, are ALL examples of single models that are also units unto themselves.

So in this case (a baal flamestorm) you have a single model == 1 unit that IS friendly to itself.

Fling - so you are not a singular entity even when you are? Wrong.

Unit, singular, composed of 1 model, singular, CAN be friendly to itself. In this case the model is friendly to itself.

Saying you are "unfriendly" to yourself is nonsense.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:Actually it doesn't address the issue of the vehicle's own weaonry. It specifically states the embarked unit's weapon. So those people who argue that the old Immolators can't fire because the template hits it's own hull still have that available.

People also argue that the Earth is flat.

Saying you are "unfriendly" to yourself is nonsense.

It isjust as saying you are friendly to yourself is... You can never be either friendly or unfriendly to yourself.

Except Corbulo IS friendly to himself.

A unit of 1 model is a singular entity.

FlingitNow wrote:You can never be either friendly or unfriendly to yourself.

The entire field of Psychology, and most major religions would like to have a word with you

No Corbulo the model is friendly to Corbulo the unit (or any unit Corbulo joins). Corbulo's unit is a transient thing that can be Corbulo himself or him and other models, hence Corbulo the model can be friendly to Corbulo's unit...

If he gave FnP to friendly models within 6" then he wouldn't give it to himself. Likewise if the radius of the effect was from Corbulo's unit (effecting friendly units) then it would not only not effect corbulo but would not effect any unit he joined.

And yet noone agrees with you on this.

You can very definitely be friendly to yourself.

And yet noone agrees with you on this.

The great RaW by popularity clause.

You can very definitely be friendly to yourself.

Not in gramatically correct English.

From the loudest supporter of "common sense!!!!" you really shouldnt be so dismissive.

Canis can be modelled with a 12" diameter base, as bases only have to be as-big as the one supplied, but aren't prohibited from being bigger anywhere I read (RAI for modelling aesthetic purposes, but hey everything can be exploited somehow once TFG shows up). That's a lot of base-to-base-contact for his special ability. Good luck trying to pull that off with anyone to play with it though.

what basing scale are you required to use for thunderwolf cavalry (who have no models as a reference?)

The explodes! instructions are entirely self contained, given you can perform them with no reference to any other rules at all....

Then try reading the 5th Edition rule book rather than the 4th Ed one you have been reading. You are required to be glued to the base you came with.

Also Canis has in his rules a prohibition from putting him on a larger base. Not that it is necessary as you are already prevented from doing so by the BrB.

As above. 5th ed ONLY lets you use the actual base supplied, anything else requires player consent. Consent that would likely NOT be forthcoming in that instance....

When I got all my Tyranids, I had a massive base preparation session. I got all the 40mm bases of the different models, ballasted them with lead shot, filled them with polystyrene resin, modded the top sides with putty, washed them, and sprayed them desert colour.

During this, they all got mixed up and I have no idea if any of the models are glued to the bases they were supplied together with. Most of them are probably illegal.

Kilkrazy wrote:When I got all my Tyranids, I had a massive base preparation session. I got all the 40mm bases of the different models, ballasted them with lead shot, filled them with polystyrene resin, modded the top sides with putty, washed them, and sprayed them desert colour.

During this, they all got mixed up and I have no idea if any of the models are glued to the bases they were supplied together with. Most of them are probably illegal.

I am going to remember that.

Kilkrazy wrote:When I got all my Tyranids, I had a massive base preparation session. I got all the 40mm bases of the different models, ballasted them with lead shot, filled them with polystyrene resin, modded the top sides with putty, washed them, and sprayed them desert colour.

During this, they all got mixed up and I have no idea if any of the models are glued to the bases they were supplied together with. Most of them are probably illegal.

ROFL That, sir, is AWESOME!

I have this visual of KilKrazy going to a big tourney, and in all seriousness, trying to explain the 'situation' to his opponent, and trying to get his opponents permission for using mixed up bases.

"I'm really sorry but I know that one sure isn't on the base that was in the box is that okay with you?"

"?????????????????"

So if I buy some GW models, and clip the slotted insert part out and then buy some non slotted bases and glue their feet to said bases, all my models are on illegal bases? NOOOOO

So who is correct?

FlingitNow wrote:

Units. And it still does not matter because a single model is a unit by itself, and a unit is made up of models.

A unit can be friendly to itself because it is not a singular entity even when made up of only 1 model. That is the difference...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Fling - so you are not a singular entity even when you are? Wrong.

Unit, singular, composed of 1 model, singular, CAN be friendly to itself. In this case the model is friendly to itself.

Saying you are "unfriendly" to yourself is nonsense.

FlingitNow wrote:It isjust as saying you are friendly to yourself is... You can never be either friendly or unfriendly to yourself.

FlingitNow wrote:

And yet noone agrees with you on this.

The great RaW by popularity clause.

You can very definitely be friendly to yourself.

Not in gramatically correct English.

nosferatu1001 wrote:From the loudest supporter of "common sense!!!!" you really shouldnt be so dismissive.

Thanks for your opinions, everyone. Also, as for the tangent of vehicles hitting themselves, the new faq states that flames shooting from a firing point ignore the vehicle, it can be easily extrapolated that a tank can fire the weapons that it comes with.

Strider - the one backed up by the rules, not the one ignoring that in this case unit == model.

converting rules also don't state when models can be converted and by whom.

so as your opponent do I have permission to convert your models during the game to my advantage?