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That Warp strom argument won't work because the planet has to be inside the warp for the effect.

The world was surrounded by a warp storm, T'au was at the centre of it as it swirled around the planet, making it completely inaccessible. I want to know where you're getting the information regarding how the warp and warp storms work, because you seem to know more than any of us about it.

Nowhere does it state that being engulfed by a warp storm does not place the engulfed planet under the warp's conditions. To me, it's safe to assume that a planet completely closed in by a warp storm will be affected by it.

Tau also survive because the Imperium has more pressing issues. The Imperium were forced to retreat from the Damocles Gulf due to the emergance of the Tyranids, a threat that is far greater than the Tau. The only other enemies the Tau have are Tyranids, Orks and Necrons if they happen to colonise or land on a tomb world and wake them up. The Imperium are more concerned with Tyranids and there are no recorded instances of Tau/(D)Eldar contact, nor Tau/Chaos, unless you count the Fire Warrior and DoW games. Cockiness won't get the Tau killed until the Imperium sees them a larger threat than they currently are, or a Tyranid Hive Fleet eats them/they get beaten down by a large WAAAGH!

LeetBix wrote:The whole reason (ok maybs just a bit of it) for GW's ridiculous fluff for the tau's rapid advancement was because they were trying to tap into the eastern market.

Tau were supposed to basically be chasing after eastern ideals of unity and strength through that unity yadda yadda yadda.

Point is the weren't really thinking about fluff sensibilities when they made the tau fluff just more dollar dollar dollar.

Except for the fact that they come off as more of a realized version of Plato's Republic than anything

Tekeino wrote:

IvanTih wrote:I also hate Tau fanboys that state that Tau are more advanced than Imperium which they are not.

And i hate Imperium fanboys who think that a rapidly evolving race isnt possible and implies that all of the rest of 40k is logical. OMG ORKS ARE GIANT LIVING MUSHROOMS OH NO FUNGUS CANT BE HUMANOID. NOT LOGICAL.

Im not even a tau fanboy, but i think the only possible objective of topics like this is to annoy.

Also, you claim that tau are illogical because they managed to accomplish more in 6k years then humans and eldar. Maybe they are more focused, maybe they are smarter there doesnt seem to be much evidence to point to the fact that humans are more or even as intellegent. And Eldar are not solely on "advancing the greater good" like tau are, Eldar have art and music as well as perfecting their skills.

Now that's not right, orks are a fungus symbiote, and orks are orks, they win no matter what, 'cause if they die in a fluff battle, it don't count.

IvanTih wrote:My small rant.

You know what is "so utterly ridiculous as to not merely strain credibility, but throw it to the ground, stomp on it, and then put it through the shredder for good measure"? That a civilization can go from cavemen to matching the elder species of 40k in a mere six thousand years. Here's a hint, it took humans tens of millenia to reach this point.

The Tau could have pulled it off if they displayed levels of competence that would make the Moties look like a bunch of slowed children, but their technology has stagnated for centuries, too.

THAT is why I despise the Tau. Their very existence is an affront to logic and common sense.

I also hate Tau fanboys that state that Tau are more advanced than Imperium which they are not.

All of 40K is an affront to logic and common sense.

Avatar 720 wrote:

That Warp strom argument won't work because the planet has to be inside the warp for the effect.

The world was surrounded by a warp storm, T'au was at the centre of it as it swirled around the planet, making it completely inaccessible. I want to know where you're getting the information regarding how the warp and warp storms work, because you seem to know more than any of us about it.

Nowhere does it state that being engulfed by a warp storm does not place the engulfed planet under the warp's conditions. To me, it's safe to assume that a planet completely closed in by a warp storm will be affected by it.

Tau also survive because the Imperium has more pressing issues. The Imperium were forced to retreat from the Damocles Gulf due to the emergance of the Tyranids, a threat that is far greater than the Tau. The only other enemies the Tau have are Tyranids, Orks and Necrons if they happen to colonise or land on a tomb world and wake them up. The Imperium are more concerned with Tyranids and there are no recorded instances of Tau/(D)Eldar contact, nor Tau/Chaos, unless you count the Fire Warrior and DoW games. Cockiness won't get the Tau killed until the Imperium sees them a larger threat than they currently are, or a Tyranid Hive Fleet eats them/they get beaten down by a large WAAAGH!

You see planets are directly affect by the warp storm if the storm directly touches them and that usually ends bad for the life living there(it mutates and then the planets get sucked into the warp or it turns to Daemon world).There's one instance of Dark Eldar contact,read latest DE codex.If they continiue to expand then they will get wiped out by the Imperium who has crushed larger Alien empires.

Kilkrazy wrote:

IvanTih wrote:My small rant.

You know what is "so utterly ridiculous as to not merely strain credibility, but throw it to the ground, stomp on it, and then put it through the shredder for good measure"? That a civilization can go from cavemen to matching the elder species of 40k in a mere six thousand years. Here's a hint, it took humans tens of millenia to reach this point.

The Tau could have pulled it off if they displayed levels of competence that would make the Moties look like a bunch of slowed children, but their technology has stagnated for centuries, too.

THAT is why I despise the Tau. Their very existence is an affront to logic and common sense.

I also hate Tau fanboys that state that Tau are more advanced than Imperium which they are not.

All of 40K is an affront to logic and common sense.

OFT.

In the end only the industrial amounts of plot armor save Tau.

IvanTih wrote:Their technological advancment is very Sue because how do they manage to advance so much in 6k years while it took Humans and Eldar much more.

They are a race that trades with other races. Rather then actually kill them on first site they actually get to benefit from forming alliances. The Ion Technology came from the Demiurg supposedly

A little insight from BFG: Tau

Other additions to the Empire are advanced in themselves, and the union of two such cultures provides valuable new knowledge, technology and understanding for both parties. Such races, where able, fulfil their debt to the Tau Empire by a series of tithes which suit their own particular abilities. Able craftsmen, for instance, may be called upon to provide manufacturing capacity, while aggressive or warlike races will be obligated to provide troops to the armies of the Tau.

Want to know how the Tau advanced so quickly? It's simple really. They stopped killing each other. While all the other races were running around their respective corners of the universe offing each other, the Tau were sitting quietly at home tinkering with their toys.

The oppposite is true for the Imperium. They decided to kill each other off and lost 1/2 their tech.

The moral? Join the greater good, we'll send an ethereal out to talk to you and don't worry about the pheromones.

Retribution wrote:

LeetBix wrote:The whole reason (ok maybs just a bit of it) for GW's ridiculous fluff for the tau's rapid advancement was because they were trying to tap into the eastern market.

Tau were supposed to basically be chasing after eastern ideals of unity and strength through that unity yadda yadda yadda.

Point is the weren't really thinking about fluff sensibilities when they made the tau fluff just more dollar dollar dollar.

Except for the fact that they come off as more of a realized version of Plato's Republic than anything

How so? They seem to emulate a sort of homogenized view of Eastern cultures and emphasis on community and harmony. The castes seem to borrow heavily from pseudo Asian views (yet they have no Wood or Metal caste....). Their leaders wear monk-like robes and the army has a very anime/star wars aesthetic. Indeed, the design of the tau physiology in general seem a pretty bad Asian stereotype ala the Star Wars Trade Federation fish faces.

The Greater Good seems rather Daoist. (Gue'vesa seems a bit like a Cantonese attempt- Gue'la is remarkably similar to Gue'lo.)

Not to mention that The Republic is highly thereotical with imagery that is long separated from it's audience and often difficult for modern readers to understand (almost impossible without a pretty good knowledge of ancient Greece). Indeed, many writers on it have conflicting views or interpretations.

agnosto wrote:Want to know how the Tau advanced so quickly? It's simple really. They stopped killing each other. While all the other races were running around their respective corners of the universe offing each other, the Tau were sitting quietly at home tinkering with their toys.

The oppposite is true for the Imperium. They decided to kill each other off and lost 1/2 their tech.

The moral? Join the greater good, we'll send an ethereal out to talk to you and don't worry about the pheromones.

Then you ignore Eldar who had plenty of time to advance,they did the same thing and had far longer time to do it than 6k years that Tau had.
Also advances have been made from Horus Heresy and plenty of them,new ship classes,better las weapons,improved Lance and Plasma weapons,planet Tesla is full of experimental technology,experimental torpedoes from Exectuion Hour etc....

Tau and Humans are very different. Their society and the way the think is not the same as humans.

As Agnosto pointed out the Tau work so effectively because they work together. Even now we would be advancing much faster if some people weren't holding others back. Thats only with a small percentage of the population working out new ideas. If we had (about) a quarter of the population trained from birth to invent new technology while the rest of the people did everything they could to support them we would be moving forward much faster.

Most humans are cautious when it comes to change (while this has decreased in recent years it still exists and is clear in the imperium), the majority of people like what they know and are afraid of large changes. Humans need to improve gradually for it to be accepted. Tau support change, if there is no logical reason no to improve they aren't afraid of new technology or ideas. This helps the Tau not only in technology but also in developing tactics.

Finally the Tau also utilise other races. It's not just Tau who are thinking of new technology but many other species also contributing. As they think in different ways they get a lot of vastly different ideas. A problem which cannot be overcome by the Tau mentality may be easy to a kroot, ect.

P.s. Look at the weapon stats Tau are clearly better than the imperial technology wise. While the imperiums best technology beats a lot of the Tau's equipment, the Tau fundamental understanding of how it actually works is much better. Only the top tech priests understand a lot of imperial technology, whereas the most of the Earth caste understand how their weapons work. The imperium reproduces the Tau invent.

Thinking all machines are controlled by gods who need to be worshiped shows a very low level of true understanding- whether this is the technique needed to use the item or just superstion is irrelevant they still think there is a god in their tank.

The Eldar had the old ones to guide them. They fell at their peak and don't seem to have advanced any further.

The Imperium might be far more advanced than its current status, but the AdMech is very restrictive on the technology that sees the light of day, abhorring stuff like AI.

The Tau just seem to be more ... sensible with the way they go about things. They don't have to recite a 30 page instruction manual to turn the ignition switch

First chime the third bell of supplication to rouse the machine spirit from its slumber
Rub the anointment oil anti clockwise for the past design
Rub the anointment oil clockwise for the work to come .. etc etc

IvanTih wrote:Then you ignore Eldar who had plenty of time to advance,they did the same thing and had far longer time to do it than 6k years that Tau had.
Also advances have been made from Horus Heresy and plenty of them,new ship classes,better las weapons,improved Lance and Plasma weapons,planet Tesla is full of experimental technology,experimental torpedoes from Exectuion Hour etc....

As others have mentioned, the Eldar fell...an honest to goodness God of Chaos came out of the warp and ate most of their souls. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be too concerned with advancing technology when I'm being hunted by a hungry, soul devouring god.

You proved my point in your second sentence. If the Imperium has all the great advances, why don't they use them? Because humans form cliques or factions instead of producing a concerted effort for the advancement of their race. The Tau all work together towards a common goal and are more than happy to enlist the aid or other species, they do not run around screaming "Purge the unclean, Kill the alien!". Exchanges of ideas produce greater exposure to different thought modes which in turn produce better results. The Tau learn from each race they encounter; Ion technology from the Demiurg, transportation from the Nicassar and manpower from kroot, vespid and the occasional human.

Grey Templar wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:In an Imperium spanning an entire galaxy, consisting of about 1 million worlds at any given time, and with around 10,000 years of history, one can imagine that technology advances and regresses all the time in the Imperium.

Speaking of, I don't suppose the original poster can give us all the low-down on how technological advancement is supposed to go? Because it's pretty easy to find rates of technological advancement to be incredible if you don't understand what technology is, and how it advances.

when you think about it, Advanced Tech is just putting old, simpler, tech together in new and interesting ways

the Admech has all the tech right in front of them, they just have to fit everything back together. it's the most nightmarishly complex jigsaw puzzle ever and the pieces are scattered all over the table, floor, front yard, and down the kitchin sink.

True, "advancement" is relative... I remember a quote from Rogue Trader where they pointed out that despite the overall Dark Ages feel, HUDs and integrated circuits would be as innovative in the 41st Millennium as stone circles are now.

agnosto wrote:
The Tau learn from each race they encounter.

No.They don't.

Ran into almost every other race and got their asses kicked all the time.
Doesn't sound like a learning process.

1hadhq wrote:

agnosto wrote:
The Tau learn from each race they encounter.

No.They don't.

Ran into almost every other race and got their asses kicked all the time.
Doesn't sound like a learning process.

Well, they learned that Tyranids like to eat them and Orks like to kill them, it's a learning process; they learned which races to shoot on sight.

Not sure about the butt-kicking since they destroyed hive fleet Gorgon (Codex: Tyranids p. 18-21), there's that whole book about Tau beating on IG (Imperial Armour III) and Farsight has kicked the Orks around quite a bit but you go ahead and believe what you want to.

IvanTih wrote:My small rant.

You know what is "so utterly ridiculous as to not merely strain credibility, but throw it to the ground, stomp on it, and then put it through the shredder for good measure"? That a civilization can go from cavemen to matching the elder species of 40k in a mere six thousand years. Here's a hint, it took humans tens of millenia to reach this point.

The Tau could have pulled it off if they displayed levels of competence that would make the Moties look like a bunch of slowed children, but their technology has stagnated for centuries, too.

THAT is why I despise the Tau. Their very existence is an affront to logic and common sense.

I also hate Tau fanboys that state that Tau are more advanced than Imperium which they are not.

Tau are actually just advancing at the same rate as us (real life humans). It's quite plausible. In 400 years who knows what we'll have but it'll probably be quite tau like if not more advanced.

It took humans 6000 years to get from a primitive to a high tech space faring civiization. That's what history tells us (well, some of us )
It took Tau 6000 years to get from primitive civilizations to high tech space faring species.
That is obviousy totally overpowered, Mary Sue and unfair!

Wait, this is the monthly "I hate Tau" thread, where facts and logical reasoning are not welcome, so forget about that!

agnosto wrote:

Not sure about the butt-kicking since they destroyed hive fleet Gorgon (Codex: Tyranids p. 18-21), there's that whole book about Tau beating on IG (Imperial Armour III) and Farsight has kicked the Orks around quite a bit but you go ahead and believe what you want to.

Youre not aware of the trend?

Nids are encircling the eastern fringe and most of the Tau storys in 5th ed codices contain nids having some fish....

So go ahead and believe what you want, right back to you sir.

I for one prefer to carefully listen. As GW may have a plan.

Kroothawk wrote:It took humans 6000 years to get from a primitive to a high tech space faring civiization. That's what history tells us (well, some of us )
It took Tau 6000 years to get from primitive civilizations to high tech space faring species.
That is obviousy totally overpowered, Mary Sue and unfair!

Wait, this is the monthly "I hate Tau" thread, where facts and logical reasoning are not welcome, so forget about that!

Yes, : Tau are exactly as smart and inventive as humans. (maybe a little less actually). Problem is Humans have a tendency to reset their technology level every now and then with dark ages. Tau fixed that by having a lack of religion and by eliminating civil strife (and civil war) with magic pixy dust.

Blah.... You dislike the Taus??? You can't even imagine how much I like them.... A totally out of sync race with the rest of the setting, an horrid cancer here to disrupt the majesty of a long time written space opera... they're totally meaningless, they came out just to blink the eye to a younger audience, making a kind of Gundam wing army.... oooooh... and they are so goooooood.... Pathetic...
Fortunately their codex will have to wait very long before coming, because my truly hope is them totally wiped out from the 40k universe and all their puny miniatures molten to reuse the plastic for shiny new guardsmen.

By the Emperor it will be done
Inquisitorial order no 193467289
Thought of the day: Do not suffer the grey stupid E.T to live.
....
little bit flaming ???? :-*

little bit

eheh... jsut asking to take my flamin with sense of humour...

agnosto wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

agnosto wrote:
The Tau learn from each race they encounter.

No.They don't.

Ran into almost every other race and got their asses kicked all the time.
Doesn't sound like a learning process.

Well, they learned that Tyranids like to eat them and Orks like to kill them, it's a learning process; they learned which races to shoot on sight.

Not sure about the butt-kicking since they destroyed hive fleet Gorgon (Codex: Tyranids p. 18-21), there's that whole book about Tau beating on IG (Imperial Armour III) and Farsight has kicked the Orks around quite a bit but you go ahead and believe what you want to.

Orks also outsmarted them.
Taros was extremly small campaign for the IOM while it was big for the Tau,but that IA is one of the greatest fluff fails if not greater than IA8,the marines act completely out of character and what's worse they had orbital superiority(well I consider Courage and Honor a payback in which Tau also do the same thing).

IA 8 is the worst FW material we ever had....
But also the third....

Really? the previous ones were so good...

Yes, their weapons are really quite good - but it's more a matter of design than technology. The IoM can construct weapons, armor, forcefields and so on just as good as those of the Tau. The lasgun is designed to be a technologically simple, robust, low-logistic weapon - but the IoM can also build Bolters or Hellguns.
A suit of battle armor might be better than a suit of power armor, but it's also significantly larger. With an equivalent size increase, the IoM could also build a set of Terminator Armor with a Jump Pack - and they already have that for power armor.
The IoM once had technology to craft fully sentient machines, and they can still build machine spirits that are about as good as Tau drones.

But the IoM has a lot of technology the Tau could not replicated. For example, conversion beamers are more advanced than anything the Tau have. They also lack all of the IoMs warp technology.

The point is that the Tau are not more technologically advanced than the IoM - they are more capable of fielding their high-end stuff, but what you actually see IS their high-end stuff - while the IoM is mostly using simpler technology.

I say it for raven guard players... They deserved a lot more....
In general I like IA but the tau one and the eight sucks....
IA3 saty low just because is about tau ( My apologies... I really can't stand them)
The 8th simply has a totally unnecessary story, with elysians , orks and ravens stuck together for reasons not furtherly explained

It might have taken 6000 years to reach the moon, but the time to reach planes to ships was less then a century. Technology's rate of expansion became exponential after the industrial revolution, so if the tau reached the revolution earleir than us, then they could easily be advancing faster than us.

I still dont understand why people hate tau. everything cant be evil or its a pritty pointless game eh. tau are serposed to fill the giant gap filled were the honorable species from every other si-fi thing ever went.

You see planets are directly affect by the warp storm if the storm directly touches them and that usually ends bad for the life living there(it mutates and then the planets get sucked into the warp or it turns to Daemon world).

Again with all the warp storm knowledge nobody else seems to have. I'd love to know your reference for this.