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Mustela wrote:I don't like Tau because they have a 40K army, and they are so tiny, they are pointless from the bigger picture - So why are they even an army? Especially when there are much cooler, much more relevant, things that GW could make (CODEX: Mechanicus?).

Oh yeah, and all my friends play them.

+Ultramr is WAAAAAYYYYY bigger than the Tau empire on the map in the rulebook.
+They can't last forever - no psykers means communications issues
+No warp drives - that'll give any significant expansion a real roadblock
+If they recruit psykers from other races, they just got themselves a free daemon portal.

They do have warp drives, but they just "skim" the edge of the warp. This is safer, but not as fast.


(Off topic: I really hate anime but really like Tau Battlesuits. Weird, huh?)


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Shaman wrote:

Retribution wrote:40k in general is an affront to logic; in a universe with Space Jesus and Space Elves you're completely thrown off by the time-span in which a species advanced technologically

I read space elves as Space Elvis. And I was thinking who is meant to be space elvis? Answer me that dakka.


Also it seems like OP is just jealous of the codex saying they are so advanced.

The reason I don't like tau is I got sick of how they play.. (used to have them in 4th)

Here we go again. Nobody ever likes snipers, in tabletop games or otherwise.

One of my friends was convinced that Tau sucked, until I wiped out about half of his green tide in one turn.

Ya the Tau advancement seems like the human advancement in the Mass Effect fluff. We FINALY got to mars and we found super advanced tech wich we replicated. That would make sense for the Tau story i think.

Ledabot wrote:I still dont understand why people hate tau. everything cant be evil or its a pretty pointless game eh? Tau are supposed to fill the giant gap where the honorable species from every other sci-fi thing ever went.

Honorable? The Tau? I don't think that "Join us or die" is very honorable.

Here's a standard expansion of the Tau Empire:

Tau: Hello, new world! Would you like to join our empire for the Greater Good? We'll treat you as second-rate citizens, use your military as cannon fodder for our superior military and guns, and force you to help us make better technology by taking yours! All for the Greater Good! Would you like to join us?
Planet: No. Go away now.
Tau: Fine... then we'll do this the hard way.
**Tau invasion fleet comes in and takes over. Native population becomes second-rate citizens. Laws for population control take place. Majority of people become labor force. Military becomes cannon fodder for Tau Fire Caste. Any and all useful technology is taken away and used by the Tau for future conquests. All for the "Greater Good."**

Now, I don't know about you, but I don't find socialism (or communism, whatever you want to call it) very honorable. Because that is what the Tau are: Socialists. In Space. They say "Everyone is equal." Here is how it really is: "Everyone is equal. The Tau are just more equal. And the Ethereals are even more equal." Also, their policy for expansion is "Join us or die" pretty much.

Yes, I will admit that the Tau are unified unlike the Imperium, and maybe even a little more advanced than the Imperium (please don't kill me, Imperial fanboys. I'm on your side [sorta]). But NO race in all of 40k is truly honorable. None. Not even the Tau and their so-called "Greater Good." If you say no to what they want from you, they will pick up their rifle and shoot you in between the eyes, just like every other race in all of Warhammer 40,000. All for the "Greater Good."

Citations? Tau codex, Dawn of War (yes I use that as a citation. I consider that game to be fluff) tau ending, various books with the Tau in them (I do not remember specific names so please do not ask me for them), a lot of the Tau Empire fluff.

Every race gets to have their one thing that they're really good at or makes them stand out.

Why does everyone else get some badass defining characteristics, which draws in players, but the tau can't?.

Their thing is tech, the necrons have their resilience, eldar are psychic space ninjas, the IG are your everyman, and so on for everyrace.

ShadowAngel159 wrote:

Ledabot wrote:I still dont understand why people hate tau. everything cant be evil or its a pretty pointless game eh? Tau are supposed to fill the giant gap where the honorable species from every other sci-fi thing ever went.

Honorable? The Tau? I don't think that "Join us or die" is very honorable.

Here's a standard expansion of the Tau Empire:

Tau: Hello, new world! Would you like to join our empire for the Greater Good? We'll treat you as second-rate citizens, use your military as cannon fodder for our superior military and guns, and force you to help us make better technology by taking yours! All for the Greater Good! Would you like to join us?
Planet: No. Go away now.
Tau: Fine... then we'll do this the hard way.
**Tau invasion fleet comes in and takes over. Native population becomes second-rate citizens. Laws for population control take place. Majority of people become labor force. Military becomes cannon fodder for Tau Fire Caste. Any and all useful technology is taken away and used by the Tau for future conquests. All for the "Greater Good."**

Now, I don't know about you, but I don't find socialism (or communism, whatever you want to call it) very honorable. Because that is what the Tau are: Socialists. In Space. They say "Everyone is equal." Here is how it really is: "Everyone is equal. The Tau are just more equal. And the Ethereals are even more equal." Also, their policy for expansion is "Join us or die" pretty much.

Yes, I will admit that the Tau are unified unlike the Imperium, and maybe even a little more advanced than the Imperium (please don't kill me, Imperial fanboys. I'm on your side [sorta]). But NO race in all of 40k is truly honorable. None. Not even the Tau and their so-called "Greater Good." If you say no to what they want from you, they will pick up their rifle and shoot you in between the eyes, just like every other race in all of Warhammer 40,000. All for the "Greater Good."

Citations? Tau codex, Dawn of War (yes I use that as a citation. I consider that game to be fluff) tau ending, various books with the Tau in them (I do not remember specific names so please do not ask me for them), a lot of the Tau Empire fluff.

I'd say the option to join is far and away above flat-out xenocide on the spot. "Join us or die" is better than"...DIE"; and please, go read up on the actual meaning behind socialism and communism

Also those who say the Tau are communists because of the Greater Good need to realise that the Imperium once did the exact same thing as the Tau (it's called the Great Crusade) and where even open to negotiation and peace with alien races before the Emperor fell.


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And they should probably read the Communist Manifesto so they actually know what a communist is

and btw

TAU ARE NOT COMMUNISTS. THEY ARE UTLITARIALSTS!!!

thats one of my fave lines

Please don't bring politics into this... though I think actually reading up on terminology would be beneficial to both you and the rest of the posters, it saves a lot of angry hate filled posts.

I actually don't mind Tau, I see them as just better guard, though not as numerous. But I also see them as the new kid on the block with some flashy new toys, somebody gonna get a hurt real bad.

People just dislike tau cuz their stupid camper snipers, it's annoying, but hey it works.

Also I think it is entirely plausible to advance that quickly. Look at us, 2000 years ago we were building with stone, and had to actually walk places. Now our buildings are created to withstand earthquakes, and travel time has shortened, though slightly more tedious. Our technology, at the moment, is growing at an exponential rate. Look at our technology, our lifestyle. Can you guys remember having things like these 20 years ago? I can't, but that may because I flew a couple feet and smashed headfirst into the pavement....

The point is that they did evolve so fast. Its a game dude, chill out.

I know next to nothing about the Tau, so correct me if im wrong. If it isnt mentioned how they advanced to their present age of tech, is it possible they found some old tech from the Imperium or Eldar? Then fiddled with it and ended up improving it? Plz correct me if im wrong cuz I have a felling that it is explained somewhere and I havent read it yet.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I know next to nothing about the Tau, so correct me if im wrong. If it isnt mentioned how they advanced to their present age of tech, is it possible they found some old tech from the Imperium or Eldar? Then fiddled with it and ended up improving it? Plz correct me if im wrong cuz I have a felling that it is explained somewhere and I havent read it yet.

That's not correct,except for their FTL they have found some ship and managed to create the FTL drive from the ship's FTL drive.
They're not more advanced than them,they are small and thus every soldier can get high-end gear,Imperium on the other hand prefers to use simplier tech.
Take Lasgun for example,it's simple,ammo is easy to find same matters for replacment parts.
Pulse rifles are on contrary harder to replace and their ammo is harder to replace.
Plus Tau don't have anything like Conversion Beamer or the Warp technologies.


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Ledabot wrote:I still dont understand why people hate tau. everything cant be evil or its a pritty pointless game eh. tau are serposed to fill the giant gap filled were the honorable species from every other si-fi thing ever went.

They are evil,Sons of Dorn mentions Tau commiting genocide,then we have planet Nimbosa from Planetstrike where Tau forces also commit genocide which prompts crusade in which SM kick their ass and would continiue soo if they haven't been recalled,in Deathwatch RPG we have concetration camps,people disapearing for saying something wrong etc....



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Avatar 720 wrote:

You see planets are directly affect by the warp storm if the storm directly touches them and that usually ends bad for the life living there(it mutates and then the planets get sucked into the warp or it turns to Daemon world).

Again with all the warp storm knowledge nobody else seems to have. I'd love to know your reference for this.

Remember Aurelia,the planet was directly touched by the warp storm and it was consumed by the warp.
Only when you're inside warp then the time dilation kicks in.
Their planet was surrounded was by the warp storm,but not touched by it otherwise the life on the planet would mutate or the planet would suffer the fate of Aurelia(also remember planet Medusa which was also consumed by the Warp storm).

IvanTih wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I know next to nothing about the Tau, so correct me if im wrong. If it isnt mentioned how they advanced to their present age of tech, is it possible they found some old tech from the Imperium or Eldar? Then fiddled with it and ended up improving it? Plz correct me if im wrong cuz I have a felling that it is explained somewhere and I havent read it yet.

That's not correct,except for their FTL they have found some ship and managed to create the FTL drive from the ship's FTL drive.
They're not more advanced than them,they are small and thus every soldier can get high-end gear,Imperium on the other hand prefers to use simplier tech.
Take Lasgun for example,it's simple,ammo is easy to find same matters for replacment parts.
Pulse rifles are on contrary harder to replace and their ammo is harder to replace.
Plus Tau don't have anything like Conversion Beamer or the Warp technologies.


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Ledabot wrote:I still dont understand why people hate tau. everything cant be evil or its a pritty pointless game eh. tau are serposed to fill the giant gap filled were the honorable species from every other si-fi thing ever went.

They are evil,Sons of Dorn mentions Tau commiting genocide,then we have planet Nimbosa from Planetstrike where Tau forces also commit genocide which prompts crusade in which SM kick their ass and would continiue soo if they haven't been recalled,in Deathwatch RPG we have concetration camps,people disapearing for saying something wrong etc....



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Avatar 720 wrote:

You see planets are directly affect by the warp storm if the storm directly touches them and that usually ends bad for the life living there(it mutates and then the planets get sucked into the warp or it turns to Daemon world).

Again with all the warp storm knowledge nobody else seems to have. I'd love to know your reference for this.

Remember Aurelia,the planet was directly touched by the warp storm and it was consumed by the warp.
Only when you're inside warp then the time dilation kicks in.
Their planet was surrounded was by the warp storm,but not touched by it otherwise the life on the planet would mutate or the planet would suffer the fate of Aurelia(also remember planet Medusa which was also consumed by the Warp storm).

because there evil sooo does not cut it. SM commit genocide dayly. on problems there

It doesn't make them anymore nicer than the rest of 40k.



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The Tau in the Jericho Reach region are the closest we've got to a look at what life can be like under the Tau at its worst.

Forced sterilisation, indoctrination camps, people disappear when they express discontent, and either don't reappear, or reappear as brainwashed cheerleaders.

The Tau use subject species as test subjects for dangerous enviroments, rather than risking the lives of Tau, and in one situation are basically firing off ships with subject race pilots into the stellar equivalent of an industrial potato peeler.

Secret labs with Nazi style medical experiments and "psychological" testing as well.

The Tau is facing an extinction without even knowing it with their caste system. It is one for the caste to be based on labor or politics where individuals transferred from one caste to another. It is borderline suicidal doing it by making each caste an almost biologically different sub-species.

Rubberanvil wrote:The Tau is facing an extinction without even knowing it with their caste system. It is one for the caste to be based on labor or politics where individuals transferred from one caste to another. It is borderline suicidal doing it by making each caste an almost biologically different sub-species.

Nah,they'll piss off the IoM enough to launch a big crusade on them.
Imperium steamrolls over them.

Maybe the Tau represent just how much trouble the imperium is in. They cant even wipe out these jerks. Back in the Great Crusade days the Tau would have been a blip. heck most of the mentioned troublesome compliances in the HH series would have a tech level as good as the tau.
the only reason the tau matter is because they have a codex. in universe they should be irrelevant.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Maybe the Tau represent just how much trouble the imperium is in. They cant even wipe out these jerks. Back in the Great Crusade days the Tau would have been a blip. heck most of the mentioned troublesome compliances in the HH series would have a tech level as good as the tau.
the only reason the tau matter is because they have a codex. in universe they should be irrelevant.

The Imperium isn't in such trouble.
They steamroll Tau,but they won't because they have better things to do,but if Tau continiue to expand then the Imperium will send a crusade(Sabbath Worlds crusade had 10,000 ships,imagine Tau facing that).

IvanTih wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Maybe the Tau represent just how much trouble the imperium is in. They cant even wipe out these jerks. Back in the Great Crusade days the Tau would have been a blip. heck most of the mentioned troublesome compliances in the HH series would have a tech level as good as the tau.
the only reason the tau matter is because they have a codex. in universe they should be irrelevant.

The Imperium isn't in such trouble.
They steamroll Tau,but they won't because they have better things to do,but if Tau continiue to expand then the Imperium will send a crusade(Sabbath Worlds crusade had 10,000 ships,imagine Tau facing that).

Thats right. both of you. the imperium could steamroll the tau, but they cant afford to. removing recorces on one front to squidge the tau would mean an incersion from another race. they are a perfict example of how limited the imperiums resources are and how bad the're in the poo,

Ledabot wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Maybe the Tau represent just how much trouble the imperium is in. They cant even wipe out these jerks. Back in the Great Crusade days the Tau would have been a blip. heck most of the mentioned troublesome compliances in the HH series would have a tech level as good as the tau.
the only reason the tau matter is because they have a codex. in universe they should be irrelevant.

The Imperium isn't in such trouble.
They steamroll Tau,but they won't because they have better things to do,but if Tau continiue to expand then the Imperium will send a crusade(Sabbath Worlds crusade had 10,000 ships,imagine Tau facing that).

Thats right. both of you. the imperium could steamroll the tau, but they cant afford to. removing recorces on one front to squidge the tau would mean an incersion from another race. they are a perfict example of how limited the imperiums resources are and how bad the're in the poo,

Actually that says how large and important are Tyranid and Chaos incursions.
The Imperium just doesn't care for Tau right now.

Ledabot wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Maybe the Tau represent just how much trouble the imperium is in. They cant even wipe out these jerks. Back in the Great Crusade days the Tau would have been a blip. heck most of the mentioned troublesome compliances in the HH series would have a tech level as good as the tau.
the only reason the tau matter is because they have a codex. in universe they should be irrelevant.

The Imperium isn't in such trouble.
They steamroll Tau,but they won't because they have better things to do,but if Tau continiue to expand then the Imperium will send a crusade(Sabbath Worlds crusade had 10,000 ships,imagine Tau facing that).

Thats right. both of you. the imperium could steamroll the tau, but they cant afford to. removing recorces on one front to squidge the tau would mean an incersion from another race. they are a perfict example of how limited the imperiums resources are and how bad the're in the poo,

Yeah. unrestricted, the imperium could steamroll anyone. But it is been pulled in so many directions, so many foes, both external and internal that it cant deal with everything. Sure the imperium can smack down abaddon every time, but what is been lost otherwise? The sabbat worlds crusade was a big one, but hardly big enough for the task. If not for gaunts the crusade would have failed.

IvanTih wrote:My small rant.

You know what is "so utterly ridiculous as to not merely strain credibility, but throw it to the ground, stomp on it, and then put it through the shredder for good measure"? That a civilization can go from cavemen to matching the elder species of 40k in a mere six thousand years. Here's a hint, it took humans tens of millenia to reach this point.

The Tau could have pulled it off if they displayed levels of competence that would make the Moties look like a bunch of slowed children, but their technology has stagnated for centuries, too.

THAT is why I despise the Tau. Their very existence is an affront to logic and common sense.

I also hate Tau fanboys that state that Tau are more advanced than Imperium which they are not.

Um. I think that the "couldn't pull it off, yet did" is the whole point of the backstory.

Tau advanced unnaturally fast as a civilization and in their technology; the Codex stresses that point explicity. Add to that the convenient, unnatural warpstorm. Later the sudden appareance of the Etheral with a Tau-controling organ from half a galaxy away, etc.. , etc.. , . The Codex is choke-full of that.. and on purpose.

The whole point of the Tau background is that it isn't natural evolution but that "someone" or "somethings" been tinkering with them. GW could've just made them an old civilization. They purposfully added the "paradox" or "riddle" of their rapid advancement that you complain about to the Tau Background as a little "mystery" to fuel some grimdark speculation that would be different to "the just evolved like any other civilization".

Ivan - bolters arent "advanced" - powerful, yes, but not advanced.

THey require constant maintenance to keep working (ref: cleaning at every oppurtunity) and re mainly designed for SHock&Awe (or thunderbolt and lightning) effects. Same as the space marines.

Tau have advanced at about the same rate as humans have to this point, if slightly quicker - which given they were likely given a leg up by the Eldar isnt surprising.

Additionally: IoM does NOT create, and has NEVER created, sentient machines. The robot war was pre heresy remember!

Remember there have been more than 1 beat back for humanity, and then has lost most technology - and rebuilding technology (bootstrapping) is known to be hard. The amount of knowledge needed to innovate increases exponentially, and if you lose knowledge of the basics you can end up unable to innovate - maintain, yes, but no "new" stuff! This accounts for 10k years of slow degredation - the most common phrase being "older is better" - older ships are better ships. Older titans are better titans. The waxing occasional pushes (incremental increases it seems - improvements to existing tech, not truly revolutionary) upwards seem FAR outweighed by the losses.

For example the Throne cant be replicated, and is failing. Once it does the AStronomicon is dead and so is long distance, fast warp travel.

Still all of Tau soldiers are armed with their High end gear,they can afford it because they are small and they don' have problems with arming trillions of men like the IoM does.
Still in universe they aren't especially dangerous alien empire,they may conquer several system,but that will invite Imperial Retribution.
Well AdMech created an AI in a short story(in Collected Visions) and remember some of the Khamrians have created inteliigent robotic serveants,but I was mainly reffering to the Golden Age humans,sorry.
Regardless IoM would love to arm every soldier with high-end gear which would make every fire warrior ashame(high end for Human scale,Marines would still be the only ones to get certain things).
Regardless 40k is inconsistent in the regression,we have many examples of innovation.
We have experimental torpedoes from Execution Hour,Hellfire bolter shells(variant which uses acids and poisons which are effective against Tyranids who have very,very good immune system).
They reverse engineer personal cloaking device from Tau(Deathwatch),they also had cloak technology long before Tau(Deathwatch RPG,Horus Heresy and Kill Team(They cloak five metre shuttle)).
Then we have new space ships classes and advances which happened after Horus Heresy.Power Armor has also improved by little,vehicles also advanced,advances in lance(perfected in M37) and plasma weaponry(they actually innovated and discovered a lost technlogy from Golden Age of Technology).
Adeptus Mechanicus aren't so stangnant(we have planet named Tesla which was full of new experimental weaponry,Codex:Tyranids 5th edition).

Remember: AI = tech heresy of the highest order!

As I said: incremental upgrades.

Nothing NEW, totally new, has been created.

BTW: just because they had cloaks before Tau doesnt mean they still can cloak - in fact they cant. Nemesis showed just how much has been lost - even around the Great Crusade.

This is why most of the AdMechs drive is in rediscovering STCs - they simply dont understand the technology as well as they would like.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Remember: AI = tech heresy of the highest order!

As I said: incremental upgrades.

Nothing NEW, totally new, has been created.

BTW: just because they had cloaks before Tau doesnt mean they still can cloak - in fact they cant. Nemesis showed just how much has been lost - even around the Great Crusade.

This is why most of the AdMechs drive is in rediscovering STCs - they simply dont understand the technology as well as they would like.

Well Deathwatch RPG says otherwise(they have ships that can cloak,personal cloaking fields were reverse engineered from the Tau,also Tyranid codex from the 4th edition says that,Kill Team has cloaked five metre shuttle).

You seem fond of the Mechanicum so i guess you have read the book of the same name where some technology was deemed to dangerous and locked any and never used, until the Heresy.

The AdMech is very careful about what tech it employs. If it doesn't understand it or doesn't have an STC or it's something they can't reverse engineer, they won't use it. Ok, if it's currently in use by the Imperium, like Plasma Weaponry, and they can maintain it then it's a bit different but new tech is generally a

The problem isn't only they don't understand but that they don't want to.

If they looked at the technology they have as machines to be examined rather than holy items, they could relearn how to invent.

4M2A wrote:The problem isn't only they don't understand but that they don't want to.

If they looked at the technology they have as machines to be examined rather than holy items, they could relearn how to invent.

Some sources,my post above points that they understand a great deal of it.

Ledabot wrote:and btw

TAU ARE NOT COMMUNISTS. THEY ARE UTLITARIALSTS!!!

thats one of my fave lines

I know, wtf. Another Tau thread ruined by Stalin! Damn you Stalin!


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xXSir MontyXx wrote:Ya the Tau advancement seems like the human advancement in the Mass Effect fluff. We FINALY got to mars and we found super advanced tech wich we replicated. That would make sense for the Tau story i think.

I supose that's fair. So protheans for them was Orks!?

Don't offend comrade stalin! Or Superman the red son will punish you! eheh
Anyway guys... there isn't anything in tau ideology of greater good even far comparable to communism (I know it, read all Marx (yes, even Das Kapital), Lenin, Bucharin and even a little bit of Planned economy principles for my last exam).

They're more similar to the corporativist Italian fascist state, without all the racist gak, moved in a pan-alien view ( something like HiroHito japan panasiatism)... after all they're Anime mecha's Fans

Anyway let's not talk about politics ( I love to talk about politics so this makes me suffer) ... let's talk about how much Tau sucks!!!