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BrassScorpion wrote:

Wow. A gw store manager actually does something cool for people who will likely be spending a butt-load of money in the store anyway, and people are complaining that its not authentic or realistic enough? It's just awful that it won't match up properly scale-wise with your pretend toy soldier army...: (
It's too bad that this ornament isn't appropriately sized to hand on your Christmas Tree, either, right?
Some people need to get a life.

Thanks, dude, I couldn't have said it better myself and I couldn't agree with you more.

For the record, if people wanted it that way, these bolter shells were being distributed with a screw-eye in the bottom so that they could be hung as or like tree ornaments.

Also for the record, the mold for these bolter shells was originally created in-house at GW in order to give these to employees with a few years of service before they got to their 5 year mark and got something more formal.

As far as "authentic size" of bolter shells, I have yet to see anyone produce anything that is "official" regarding exactly what size is "correct" by the published GW 40K lore, just a lot of unsubstantiated claims and complaining.

Finally, today is the second day of the promotion. If you're in the area and wanted to come check out the store, we have an extremely nice community and the store operator is great. With a few exceptions unfortunately as in any community or forum, most of the people are pleasant and do not behave rudely or complain about nothing all the time.

Lexicanum online says the following:
"Standard Bolts comprise the following components: Outer casing, propellant base, main charge, mass reactive detonator cap, depleted deuterium core, diamantine tip.1 The standard bolter shell is standardised at .75 calibre, whereas heavy bolter rounds are larger, at 1.00 Cal."

They don't have a direct reference, but I am pretty certain I had seen it somewhere else before as well. I will see if I can dig it up.

I think it is nice that the manager would offer something to customers who spend a good bit, but it is a little weird it isn't to spec, considering that would be less resin .
Of course, I think getting a discount is a hell of a lot nicer, which combined with the poor selection is why I never bother to buy at GW stores anymore. The Warstore has the same stuff for a hell of a lot less money. Of course, the manager might not be able to offer a discount, so it isn't his fault, so we are back to him doing something nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a side note, if the big resin bolt round let you put water inside, it would be pretty accurate. Depleted Deuterium indeed! :-P

aka_mythos wrote:Since you have such a high opinion where do you draw the line between constructive critique and criticism?

See below...

jp400 wrote:I could make this for FAR less then the 125$ I have to spend to unlock this special little "gift"....

MajorTom11 wrote:LOL I will hand make and paint one for anyone who sends me 40 bucks plus shipping!

darthmatty wrote:It's not straight! Have to say it wouldn't make me spend the money to get one. Might have a go at making my own!!!!!!!!

OoieGoie wrote:"Merry Xmas, here's a phallic looking object that cost a lot of money".

Yeeeaaahhh ,no. Ha.

Is that supposed to be constructive criticism?

Like I said, no disrespect was intended to anyone. However, constructive criticism usually involves an educated opinion formed after some careful consideration of facts, rather than some of the nasty and rude commentary that was posted previously.
I just hate to see someone doing something positive getting dumped on because it was not done the way some other people think it should have been done. Can't we just accept that someone is doing something cool and leave it at that?
Also, thanks to Scorpion for correcting my misinformation on the mold. It's still an awesome thing for that store manager to be doing!

Lexicanum online says the following...

Lexicanium Online is not Games Workshop and they didn't write the rule book or the background material. I don't see their name on my Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader rule book or any book since. Lexicanium Online is fan generated "stuff" (the kind word for it) and there's nothing official about it. Now those of us with a life can go back to enjoying things like the bolter shell giveaway without obsessing over it or losing sleep about it.

I just hate to see someone doing something positive getting dumped on because it was not done the way some other people think it should have been done. Can't we just accept that someone is doing something cool and leave it at that?

Once again, you've hit the nail on the head, but unfortunately it's never like that on Warhammer forums, is it?

BrassScorpion wrote:

Lexicanum online says the following...

Lexicanium Online is not Games Workshop and they didn't write the rule book or the background material. I don't see their name on my Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader rule book or any book since. Lexicanium Online is fan generated "stuff" (the kind word for it) and there's nothing official about it. Now those of us with a life can go back to enjoying things like the bolter shell giveaway without obsessing over it or losing sleep about it.

Except Lexicanum is largely quoted material. In the case of the bolter shells "caliber" that has been stated in a number of diagrams GW's put out over the years and in other apocryphal sources. If GW put something like it together, fans wouldn't have to distill it down for people less familiar.

You guys obviously have some beef with someone or something larger than this instance of fans being fans and believing they know better and can do better. I think you're acting more emotional than the fans you feel have crticized this. The stuff above that wasn't criticism, thats admiration manifesting itself in a desire to further improve on a notion, an idea of making this fantasy that is 40k more real.

BrassScorpion wrote:

I just hate to see someone doing something positive getting dumped on because it was not done the way some other people think it should have been done. Can't we just accept that someone is doing something cool and leave it at that?

Once again, you've hit the nail on the head, but unfortunately it's never like that on Warhammer forums, is it?

Fans are called "fans" for a reason" they are fan-atical about their passion. This is a forum, made up of skilled individuals who's hobby is built around model making. Anytime someone puts together a model of any sort and its shown on this website, it is unreasonable to assume people won't judge it based on their fanaticism.

Why does someone get a free ride from fanaticism's wrath, because he did something nice? It might be the case of "looking a gift horse in the mouth" if it was free, but its a promotional, you get it by spending money. GW might not do anything like this and while this individual did it doesn't change the reality that it is something in exchange for money. I think it is very nice and I think its a really neat model. I've even made one in the past using an replica grenade, that wasn't accurate... and I criticised the hell out of it, even as I gave it as Christmas gift. I just think the people you are "poopooing" are entitled to believe they can do better and express that. Feel free to read it as criticism, I just saw it as fan admiration for a fantasy universe.

Except Lexicanum is largely quoted material.

Except quoting it doesn't make it official, authoritative, knowledgeable or true. A lot of things that are utter nonsense are quoted because they are on the Internet and they'll never be true no matter how often they are quoted. Now, perhaps you'd like to help out a prince in a far off land by transferring money to his bank account so that he can then reward you with a million dollars?

That's the exact problem, people quoting something all the time until it's believed to be true just because people quote it a lot. That is not a reliable test of veracity. Many things that are untrue are believed to be true by a lot of people just because they are oft repeated. One thing clearly is true, some people spend way too much time worrying about this kind of thing and "tormenting" others with their obsessive behavior. LOL.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Except Lexicanum is largely quoted material.

Except quoting it doesn't make it official, authoritative, knowledgeable or true. A lot of things that are utter nonsense are quoted because they are on the Internet and they'll never be true no matter how often they are quoted. Now, perhaps you'd like to help out a prince in a far off land by transferring money to his bank account so that he can then reward you with a million dollars?

That's the exact problem, people quoting something all the time until it's believed to be true just because people quote it a lot. That is not a reliable test of veracity. Many things that are untrue are believed to be true by a lot of people just because they are oft repeated.

Much like this post...

But, for instance, the Rogue Trader main rule book on page 122 describes the bolter as .75 caliber. Lexicanum mentions pg. 60 of the 40k 3rd edition rule book as the source of some bolter information; perhaps there is more detail around there (I no longer have mine.) In fact, searching around for a little bit online many people have cited Pg 60 of the Warhammer 40k Third Edition Rule Book as the source of the .75 caliber number.

Anyone have the book? Not to beat BrassScorpion to death with, just to quote properly. For me, the Rogue trader reference is sufficient, but some like straight GW references.

Page 122 of the original 40K Rogue Trader book is about Flight Packs, Gravity Chutes, Intra-vision, etc.

Sorry, should have clarified, Pg 122 of the Rogue Trader RPG Main Rule book.
Kind of funny that both books have equipment sections at about the same point though

BrassScorpion wrote:

Except Lexicanum is largely quoted material.

Except quoting it doesn't make it official, authoritative, knowledgeable or true. A lot of things that are utter nonsense are quoted because they are on the Internet and they'll never be true no matter how often they are quoted. Now, perhaps you'd like to help out a prince in a far off land by transferring money to his bank account so that he can then reward you with a million dollars?

You're diverting the arguement and making you're point with a largely semantic arguement. You can argue the accuracy of the citation and that fair, but if its cited accurately than it is the very definition of "offical..." This comes down to that figure being an accurate value or not. Attack Lexicanum all you want, but like any other Wiki while it might not be 100% accurate, that doesn't diminish its usefulness or the information that is properly cited.

Over the years I've heard a number of GW designers quote the .75 cal figure before, so its more than just Lexicanum and its more than the Rogue Trader rule book.

Wehrkind wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:

Except Lexicanum is largely quoted material.

Except quoting it doesn't make it official, authoritative, knowledgeable or true. A lot of things that are utter nonsense are quoted because they are on the Internet and they'll never be true no matter how often they are quoted. Now, perhaps you'd like to help out a prince in a far off land by transferring money to his bank account so that he can then reward you with a million dollars?

That's the exact problem, people quoting something all the time until it's believed to be true just because people quote it a lot. That is not a reliable test of veracity. Many things that are untrue are believed to be true by a lot of people just because they are oft repeated.

Much like this post...

But, for instance, the Rogue Trader main rule book on page 122 describes the bolter as .75 caliber. Lexicanum mentions pg. 60 of the 40k 3rd edition rule book as the source of some bolter information; perhaps there is more detail around there (I no longer have mine.) In fact, searching around for a little bit online many people have cited Pg 60 of the Warhammer 40k Third Edition Rule Book as the source of the .75 caliber number.

Anyone have the book? Not to beat BrassScorpion to death with, just to quote properly. For me, the Rogue trader reference is sufficient, but some like straight GW references.

'Course one might ask ".75" of *what* exactly? Sure, for us "caliber" uses inches as the default, but perhaps in the grim darkness of the far future, they use some more rational value. Like, say, the diameter of The Emperor's big toe or something...

Valete,

JohnS

Yes, you can divorce the language from any tether and have it mean anything you want. In fact, to blorb as yumauth gorit nom issipitam. However, if we start to assume that words don't mean anything, it kind of defeats the point of trying to communicate in the first place, doesn't it?

Much better to just accept that the resin bolt shell is the wrong size and shrug it off.

Wehrkind wrote:Yes, you can divorce the language from any tether and have it mean anything you want. In fact, to blorb as yumauth gorit nom issipitam. However, if we start to assume that words don't mean anything, it kind of defeats the point of trying to communicate in the first place, doesn't it?

Much better to just accept that the resin bolt shell is the wrong size and shrug it off.

My point was this was all pretty silly... A GW manager tried to do something nice for the locals at his store. People jumped all over the bolter shells being the wrong size. Kind of like arguing who would win if Superman and Wondermouse got in a fight.

As others have noted, bolter rounds, to quote the RT-era fluff were caseless, and yet every single bolter ever drawn or sculpted has an ejection port and there're usually shell casings everywhere...

Better to just accept this is all make-believe and that there's really no consistency to GW's scale, fluff, or just about anything else.

I didn't find getting a "free" Bolter round to be worth plunking down the $125 "entry fee", but hats off to Kurt for making the effort. I hope he brought in some good business with the promotion.

Valete,

JohnS

whitedragon wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Since you have such a high opinion where do you draw the line between constructive critique and criticism?

See below...

jp400 wrote:I could make this for FAR less then the 125$ I have to spend to unlock this special little "gift"....

Is that supposed to be constructive criticism?

Nope. That is an opinion, nothing more.

Lets look at it in another light shall we?

Timmy: Sleeping on the sofa on Xmas eve waiting for Santa.
Santa: Pops down the chimmney and wakes lil Timmy.
Timmy: Santa!
Santa: Merry Christmas Timmy. You have been a good boy this year.
Timmy: Yes I have!
Santa: I have a special gift just for you little boy. *reaches into his big red sack and produces the free gift*
Timmy: Oh Boy!
Santa: Merry Christmas! Now that will be $125.
Timmy: ............

Wehrkind wrote:Much better to just accept that the resin bolt shell is the wrong size and shrug it off.

Sounds reasonable. It's a "Novelty Oversized Bolter Shell" produced by the same Adeptus mechanicus Munitorium that produces The Emperor's Fake Dog Poop and The Emperor's Whoopie Cushion along with other novelties.

They have close ties with a Space Marine chapter, Disciples of the Joker, that specialize in hit & run comedy attacks.

(The joke si running otu fo steam, but I considered a Harlequin reference here, too.)

Why are people acting like reaching $125 is a hardship. If you buy GW stuff on a regular basis, its quite easy to do.

All you need to buy is a Tac squad, Land Raider, and a Combat Squad and you have hit the threshold.
Or a Valkyrie, IG command, and a couple IG troop boxes.

Most any combination of around 4 boxes will hit $125 at retail.

skrulnik wrote:Why are people acting like reaching $125 is a hardship. If you buy GW stuff on a regular basis, its quite easy to do.

All you need to buy is a Tac squad, Land Raider, and a Combat Squad and you have hit the threshold.
Or a Valkyrie, IG command, and a couple IG troop boxes.

Most any combination of around 4 boxes will hit $125 at retail.

Many people have been playing for some time and already own complete armies, or do not have the kind of disposable income that you must have to justify blowing $125 just to get a "free" paper weight.

Or any other number of combinations that you can think of.

jp400 wrote:

Many people have been playing for some time and already own complete armies, or do not have the kind of disposable income that you must have to justify blowing $125 just to get a "free" paper weight.

Or any other number of combinations that you can think of.

Good point, but then why would you deserve a "gift" if you don't go and purchase anything from this particular store? You are confusing a true "Gift" with a promotional "Gift". The intention is not to give out gifts, but to get people to spend money, theoretically on stuff they wanted to buy anyway. If you have no interest in buying more GW stuff, then they have no interest in giving you a paper weight.

cygnnus wrote:
'Course one might ask ".75" of *what* exactly? Sure, for us "caliber" uses inches as the default, but perhaps in the grim darkness of the far future, they use some more rational value. Like, say, the diameter of The Emperor's big toe or something...

That is an idiotic statement. Caliber is an approximate unit of measure. It has a meaning and a defintion. It is a semantic arguement. You no longer care, that its factually suppose to be .75 caliber, just "what" is caliber. Missing that even if we assume your assertion, its only far more unlikely that the model is the correct dimension.

cygnnus wrote:My point was this was all pretty silly... A GW manager tried to do something nice for the locals at his store. People jumped all over the bolter shells being the wrong size. Kind of like arguing who would win if Superman and Wondermouse got in a fight.

As others have noted, bolter rounds, to quote the RT-era fluff were caseless, and yet every single bolter ever drawn or sculpted has an ejection port and there're usually shell casings everywhere...

Its a model. It models something and in this instance, its a bolter shell. If it represents it poorly, do we not have the right to so scrutinize it? By your rationale it could have been a cinder block with bolter written on the side, but because he was nice in trying to get our money we should over look it? I think it is nice, I think its cool he's offering something like this, but I still think it has its weakness and in that one regard poor.

RT era has largely been retconned into the preheresy and heresy era... so that fluff only means the those older designs were, and that possibly some specialized bolter shells still are.

skrulnik wrote:Why are people acting like reaching $125 is a hardship. If you buy GW stuff on a regular basis, its quite easy to do.

Its not that big of a hardship, but some people here are speaking as if this managers promotional item is free. The illusion of a "hardship" stems from those differing views, in which relatively paying $125 to get a promotional is harder than getting something for free.

Not justifying a thing. I'm not getting one. For one thing, I am not on the East Coast.

I am stating that hitting $125 of GW product is not difficult no matter how complete your army.
GW stuff isn't cheap, hasn't been for a long while.

If you think the cost to get this freebie is too high, you are within your rights to choose not to buy it.
But disparaging the shop, for offering a little extra is just plain rude.

My bet would be that they didn't create all that many shells so they set the threshold above people's "normal" purchase level.
Otherwise picking up 2 models would get you the shell and they would run out fast.
Most giveaways have some kind of hoop to jump.

yeah,
I don't like it, it's too plain. I'd expect every shell shell fired in the emprahs name to be covered with details like litanys of hate ect on them.

Also It's not free, It's a promotional extra..
So I think the title 'Bolter shell give away' is where they have gone wrong.

Panic...

Um, not to keep this going forever, but I don't think the store claimed it was a free give-away item...I believe the very first post here even said that it was a free gift for a purchase of $125.00 or more. Maybe there was miscommunication or misunderstanding somewhere along the lines. Also, isn't the promotion over? Does any of this matter anymore?
Anyway, I never knew that being a fan meant that one had the right to be overly ctitical of anything that one did not like. I agree that everyone has the right to disagree, and that everyone has the right to their opinion. I just don't feel that criticism that comes across as nasty or ignorant is acceptable. Sure, this is the internet, and everyone can hide behind a screen-name and an avatar and be awful to each other. Does that mean that we HAVE to be?

Those look cool. the boy scout in me wants some of those patches in Wittzo's picture. Please, GW! 1 patch per every $50 or so? Seeing as patches cost less than model rounds?

Besides, who wants to be THAT nitpicky over a fictional bullet that looks cool and even has awesome stuff written on the bottom?

It is hilarious that everyone is arguing over semantics. Look around at every store this holiday season: Buy One, Get One Free. Is it really free? No, you had to buy one to get it.

Buy $100, get free shipping. Is the shipping really free? No, it was financed buy you buying $100 of their stuff.

Do people really buy all that much GW stuff? Obviously, or GW would go out of business, and we'd all have to find other games to be angry about.

The bolter shell is still free, you just have to jump through a hoop to get it. Interesting idea, good for them.

Ciao!

Thats exactly what my wife would love hanging on the tree... a boltgun shell

I too think that it would be awesome if those patches were available, but of course they'd have to be the correct scale and utilize the correct color dyes, as well as be .75 calibur....: P