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As a lot of us have said it doesn't need to be great anymore. Having said that I have been painting for over twenty years and 'eavy metal still throws up some useful tips mostly a new way of doing something, I also read the battle reprts even though some of them read like fiction.
The main problem as I see it is GW are satisfied with a captive market White Dwarf has to apeal to the 14 year old who has just got into the hobby and will probably leave again within 18 months. GW have very little intrest in long term gamers at the moment its back to being all about the money. They still make the best miniatures out there though long may it continue.

I used to love wd, to get the same effect nowadays I'd have to buy every (novels aside) book that gw print... Which I would if I had more money, though that summarizes everything about gw really.
Still the new wd is still readable.

I've never even held a WD before, but the biggest problem to me seems to be that not only is GW no longer paying for good copy itself, but it violently abuses people who dare to write good copy themselves. It's whole business model appears to be around suppressing fluff, story, and anything that could be described as characterful. Not even its codecies are immune.

The fact that GW seems to not only NOT be spending resources to promote creativity, but is actively repressing it makes me think that the past couple of CEOs of GW have considered it a distasteful, sinful, and wherever possible illegal action. That WD has followed suit is no surprise.

sebster wrote:White Dwarf was once a key part of an expanding game line. It's where new rules and new games were first put out for trial.

But the game lines have matured now, armies are largely set and GW is committed to its three main games (so there's no more interesting Man'o'War, Necromunda or BF Gothic stuff).

I think this is pretty much the case. 40k has -for better and for worse- become more organized. Factions have become much more clearly deliniated. Rules expansions have become very regimnted. White Dwarf has just followed this trend. GW has pretty much said, "Want more missions, buy "battle missions", "Want another army" buy this codex.

This does make for a more clean gaming experience with less ambiguity (though there's still plent of that if the Adepticon FAQ is any measure...) but it leaves alot less room for new and different game experiences. As WD exists to support the game as GW has presented it, there's really no place for the kind of articles we used to like.

The other factor is that GW is now pretty obviously unwilling to "give" anything away that they can't sell elsewhere.

One interesting example Anyone remember the Lustria issue a few years back where they showed you how to make a whole jungle out of aquarium plants. Sure they advised you to buy thier bases, but the whole point was an inexpensive project that you could make yourself.

Maybe I've just missed them becuase I haven't been buying WD, but I flick through the magazine now and then and I can't remember the last time I saw a project like that.

I have a project request, that might take a little work, but could yield some interesting results:

Take ten (or five, or two, or whatever) White Dwarf issues from the 'old days', however you want to define that. Take ten (or five, or whatever) current issues.

Count total pages.

Count total advertisements.

Divide advertisements by page total.

I wonder what that comparison tells us?

Eilif wrote:Maybe I've just missed them becuase I haven't been buying WD, but I flick through the magazine now and then and I can't remember the last time I saw a project like that.

WD343 had the last, hobby-minded article on how to build a battle board. It is two pages long, and advises that you build it out of wood, nails, sand, and some cheap unwanted emulsion from a DIY store. That's almost two-and-a-half years ago now.

I have to agree with the White Dwarf being rubbish nowadays.I have issue's from the 50's and up-over.Lots of different stuff in including comic strips and advert's for other games and miniatures lines.

Now WD just seems to push the latest new army that is out.Way too many add's in the mag too.More modelling articles would be great.

Wargames Illustrated seems to be going the same way too.

I was talking the otherday to some one else about all the old Citadel Journals and Compendiums which had great articles in them and little stories to breathe life into the new miniatures released.The Regiments of Reknown pieces were great and still are today.The little things like them gave you an insight into the WArhammer World setting and the conflicts that took place.Not just on a big battle scale but on a smaller scale.

Mantic seem to be doing a good job with there little Journal so far and I hope to see it grow into a great resource.This will be helped with them now including Hasslefree and Studio McVey in it.

manic _miner wrote: ...and advert's for other games and miniatures lines.....

Do you think other gaming companies would spend ad dollars to be in white dwarf?

That may not be GWs fault, I suspect they put their own ads in there for a different reason than most people suspect.

If you want a GOOD miniature gaming mag check out Wargames Illustrated!

http://www.wargamesillustrated.net/

*Warning, its not filled with Space Marines every issue...

Put one side by side with White Dwarf sometime...

MajorTom11 wrote:I've been reading WD since the mid/late 80's, so 25 years or so... jeez that's crazy not that I think on it lol.

It used to be bursting with creativity, short stories, rules, conversions, bat-reps, bio's... I agree that now it feels more like I'm paying them to advertise to me, when it should be the other way around. But, at the same time, I still enjoy the batreps, masterclass articles, and what little there is of fluff and creativity.

To me, the answer is simple as to what happend to it. It went from a forum style discussion and mish-mash about the hobby and 'lifestyle', one where whims and quick ideas could be expressed without planning, to a methodical, business oriented and carefully planned promotional supplement.

In other words, the nerds grew up and got more interested in coin than sci-fi and fantasy, sold it to suits and here we are.

This. WD used to have great stories in it. Now they just give writers who only had anough material for a short story a BL book deal.

I think WD would be better broken down in to different smaller mags. I mean there's a lot of people out there who just aren't interested in hearing about other games (40K players who don't want to hear about Fantasy and vice versa). I used to flick over half of each WD as it was stuff that didn't interest me as a 40K player. These days I'm more than happy to read about Fantasy etc. Still though, put out three or four mags at £2 each, one for 40K, Fantasy, LoTR and modelling/painting and maybe one for tactics etc and I think they might be able to offer something that's a lot more focussed.

c'mon, it's cosmo for geeks! 1/10 personal anecdote from staff article, 1/10 useless how-to keep your boyfriend (or 40k tactics) article, 1/10 fashion tips er... painting tips, 1/10 next season fashions/codexcreep preview, 6/10ths advertising!

Ailaros wrote:I've never even held a WD before,

Surely that then precludes you from debating the merits of it or making an informed decision on CEO's policy etc etc

But this is the intarnets! Everyone's opinion is equally valid regardless of knowledge!

i stopped buying WD after about three years it really was all the same.

I havent picked up an issue in probably 6 years or more. From what Ive read about its current state I dont think Im going to either. Especially since its like $9 an issue.

It used to be great. Several battle reports, painting how-to articles, articles on scratch building scenery, etc. Sad to hear it has taken such a dive.

they suck, a huge catalog...I mean if I am curious what is coming out and...for some reason don't want to ask the GW employee's I'll buy it
I've not bought a White Dwarf since 300
(best WD ever)

Have any of you ever picked up a guitar magazine? There is maybe a single article in there worth reading. The rest is entirely ads and much thicker than a WD. To say White Dwarf is nothing but an ad is a gross statement when compared to other publications. Paizo's Pathfinder is twice the cost ($20) as WD ($9) for no ads. That becomes a pricey magazine, but to each their own I guess.

Honestly its not ads so much that bother me, its actual interesting content on the other pages. As someone else mentioned without the "specialist games" WD has lost a lot. The Necromunda articles were great, esp the modeling ones.

Which brings me to something...if GW still sells the games and minis, why not promote them a bit?

I love WD, when I got back into the hobby I bought every copy on the day it came out plus every single back issue they had left in the store, over a year and a halts worth of WD. Now I have a subscription, which is also very cool (magazine a week early, plus free issues!) but having fairly recently started working at GW I now get a free copy every month which is even better! So as you can see, even when I had to pay for them I was very happy too as I think it's a great magazine. New releases pics, tactics advice, expansions, weapon rules, battle reports, news, painting guides, modelling tips and the rest. Although I'm clearly in a minority, I'm pretty happy with WD and I really don't understand why everyone is so down on it. I honestly wonder if it's another acute case of 'Internet forum negativity for the sheer sake of it' as it's what it reads like.

Just my humble opinion however.

The Decapitator wrote:I love WD, when I got back into the hobby I bought every copy on the day it came out plus every single back issue they had left in the store, over a year and a halts worth of WD. Now I have a subscription, which is also very cool (magazine a week early, plus free issues!) but having fairly recently started working at GW I now get a free copy every month which is even better! So as you can see, even when I had to pay for them I was very happy too as I think it's a great magazine. New releases pics, tactics advice, expansions, weapon rules, battle reports, news, painting guides, modelling tips and the rest. Although I'm clearly in a minority, I'm pretty happy with WD and I really don't understand why everyone is so down on it. I honestly wonder if it's another acute case of 'Internet forum negativity for the sheer sake of it' as it's what it reads like.

Just my humble opinion however.

I don't think it is man, honestly. I don't know how old you are, but for those of us who read it in the eighties and early 90's (hell even the late 90's) it has changed quite a bit. Like I said, I still find enjoyment in it, but it used to feel almost like this forum, so many ideas and surprises, and enthusiastic story telling etc. The models got attention sure, but not nearly to the degree they do now. A great deal of space was devoted to short stories, test rules, galleries of work etc. It pushed the product through enthusiasm, not bombardment. It was just a different time lol... God I sound so damned old lol

I’m not that old either and I can definitely say that even WD issues from the early 2000s (specifically 2000-2004) was superior to the current stuff now.

Eilif wrote:

sebster wrote:White Dwarf was once a key part of an expanding game line. It's where new rules and new games were first put out for trial.

But the game lines have matured now, armies are largely set and GW is committed to its three main games (so there's no more interesting Man'o'War, Necromunda or BF Gothic stuff).

I think this is pretty much the case. 40k has -for better and for worse- become more organized. Factions have become much more clearly deliniated. Rules expansions have become very regimnted. White Dwarf has just followed this trend. GW has pretty much said, "Want more missions, buy "battle missions", "Want another army" buy this codex.

Yeah, that's true, a lot of stuff they used to give to players in White Dwarf is now being sold as seperate products. When you take that stuff out of the old WD, and then consider how much less content there is to release each month (because most stuff has been done by now, the settings are largely fleshed out as they've been worked on for 20 years now).

Those two things combine pretty much mean there just isn't that much content left for WD.


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model_bits_matt wrote:I think WD would be better broken down in to different smaller mags. I mean there's a lot of people out there who just aren't interested in hearing about other games (40K players who don't want to hear about Fantasy and vice versa). I used to flick over half of each WD as it was stuff that didn't interest me as a 40K player. These days I'm more than happy to read about Fantasy etc. Still though, put out three or four mags at £2 each, one for 40K, Fantasy, LoTR and modelling/painting and maybe one for tactics etc and I think they might be able to offer something that's a lot more focussed.

I think GW probably considers it very important to keep telling 40K players about WHFB and vice versa. Lots of people who are only interested in one game end up buying into the other sooner or later, I'd expect it to be a very important way for GW to maximise its sales per customer.

MajorTom11 wrote:I don't think it is man, honestly. I don't know how old you are, but for those of us who read it in the eighties and early 90's (hell even the late 90's) it has changed quite a bit. Like I said, I still find enjoyment in it, but it used to feel almost like this forum, so many ideas and surprises, and enthusiastic story telling etc. The models got attention sure, but not nearly to the degree they do now. A great deal of space was devoted to short stories, test rules, galleries of work etc. It pushed the product through enthusiasm, not bombardment. It was just a different time lol... God I sound so damned old lol

I'll agree with you on this, I was 11 when I started painting Citadel miniatures. Seeing has there was no hobby store, no internet, nothing that could get me deeper into the hobby I started buying the expensive (what, maybe 5 euros nowadays?) magazine.

A few years later (2001 I think) I got a three year subscription, and I get a lot of miniatures - like a battleforce, and some more boxes - when I subscribed. When it was going out, , I didn't renew. Not because of the internet, or anything like it.
Battlereps were nearly always rigged, but there was stuff there - articles, showcases, expanded fluff - that I enjoyed reading, and it didn't matter if it was 40k, fantasy or LOTR (I only actively collect 40k, mind you).

But then, it looked as if they just rehashed some articles, whole pages of fluff from the codexes, and lost most of the team I thought made up that part of the hobby - like Andy Chambers, Nigel Stillman, Iain Compton (I think) - as well as other contributors (I remember a very funny guy who wrote about fantasy with lots of hilarious, geeky notes - like his calling his halfling archers "The podgy purveyors of pathetic projectiles" - yeah, I found that funny and I didn't even play fantasy), with lots of tactical advice from various players like the then italian champion Alessio Cavattore. Gradually, it stopped justifying the investment, and I eventually grew out of it. The latest one to get my attention was when they released the new Crimson Fists packs, but someone told me there still wasn't a decent paint guide, stories, or even tactical organization there, so I just skipped it.

Sorry about the memory lane trip. Can't exactly point it out, Tom did a better job than I did in a lot less space. Just thought I'd share :b

Cosmic wrote:

Eilif wrote:Maybe I've just missed them becuase I haven't been buying WD, but I flick through the magazine now and then and I can't remember the last time I saw a project like that.

WD343 had the last, hobby-minded article on how to build a battle board. It is two pages long, and advises that you build it out of wood, nails, sand, and some cheap unwanted emulsion from a DIY store. That's almost two-and-a-half years ago now.

Wow, that is a while, yet in a way I'm kind of surprised that it was as recently as 2.5 years. In the past 5 years, I've only bought a few issues and none of them had that kind article in it.

Augustus wrote:

manic _miner wrote: ...and advert's for other games and miniatures lines.....

Do you think other gaming companies would spend ad dollars to be in white dwarf?

I actually do, other wargaming companies would love to put an ad in WD. The fact is, that GW would never put another companies products in front of it's readers. GW only acknowleges GW.

Surtur wrote:Have any of you ever picked up a guitar magazine? There is maybe a single article in there worth reading. The rest is entirely ads and much thicker than a WD. To say White Dwarf is nothing but an ad is a gross statement when compared to other publications. Paizo's Pathfinder is twice the cost ($20) as WD ($9) for no ads. That becomes a pricey magazine, but to each their own I guess.

I disagree. I read Bass Player and until recently read Guitar player as well. There are more strait "ads" in them to be sure. The difference is that they are not all ads for products made by the company that makes the magazine.

I'm not overly impressed with GP or BP, but in them, a variety of products, points of view, editorials and stories are discussed. Thgey are actualy reasonably unbiased (or at least containing a variety of biases) news sources about Guitars and basses. WD is GW's official corporate opinion sent directly to you for which you pay, and have no voice.

Everything in WD is a GW product, and everything product in WD is reviewed/shown/Demonstrated positively. Further, there is no real "review" of WD, there aren't, or rarely are letters to the editor critiqueing the content of the magazine. Thus the entiretly of WD constitutes an advertisement.

This is not news however, In the 15 years since I opened my first copy, it's always been one big GW advert. The difference is that now there's not enough to make me want to pay for it.

Eilif wrote:Wow, that is a while, yet in a way I'm kind of surprised that it was as recently as 2.5 years. In the past 5 years, I've only bought a few issues and none of them had that kind article in it.

Because not every issue can really be filled with "good" articles.
Take Fine Scale Modeler for example. Every so often you get an issue where the entire magazine is basically one big "Letters to the Editor" section of answering very basic things like care of airbrushes, or what kind of brushes are the best to use for what specific kind of detail work.

I actually do, other wargaming companies would love to put an ad in WD. The fact is, that GW would never put another companies products in front of it's readers. GW only acknowledges GW.

Uh...duh?
It's called "White Dwarf" and then right underneath of that, it even says "Games Workshop's Monthly Magazine".

Do you expect an official Ford magazine to advertise Toyota products?
The Official Coca Cola Newsletter to tell you about the newest Pepsi products?

I disagree. I read Bass Player and until recently read Guitar player as well. There are more strait "ads" in them to be sure. The difference is that they are not all ads for products made by the company that makes the magazine.

Your comparison is flawed, and that statement even proves it.

he difference is that they are not all ads for products made by the company that makes the magazine.

Is Guitar Player or Bass Player published by Fender or any other guitar/bass producing company?

If they were, you'd have a good comparison.

I'm not overly impressed with GP or BP, but in them, a variety of products, points of view, editorials and stories are discussed. They are actualy reasonably unbiased (or at least containing a variety of biases) news sources about Guitars and basses. WD is GW's official corporate opinion sent directly to you for which you pay, and have no voice.

Again:
You're expecting too much from Games Workshop's Official Magazine.

If "Wargaming Illustrated" only advertised GW product, and was published by GW, etc...then you'd have a point.

But this is White Dwarf, Games Workshop's official magazine.

They don't have to do diddily squat to advertise for their competitors inside of their magazine.
Now, would it be nice to start seeing products like Army Painter, Pegasus Hobbies, and other paint/terrain companies show up in the mag with showcases of how some of their stuff works perfectly with GW's own line?
Hell yeah it would.
But it won't happen, because they're not officially licensed products, nor are the products stocked in official GW stores.

Kanluwen wrote:Uh...duh?
It's called "White Dwarf" and then right underneath of that, it even says "Games Workshop's Monthly Magazine".

Do you expect an official Ford magazine to advertise Toyota products?
The Official Coca Cola Newsletter to tell you about the newest Pepsi products?

No, but does Ford charge $10 for their official magazine?

So what if you're paying?

It's not like they advertise it as "White Dwarf: Your Guide To The Wargaming Hobby".

It's like buying the Official Xbox Magazine and being upset there's nothing about the PS3 in there.

No, it's more like buying the Official Xbox Magazine and being upset that it is complete crap.

MikeMcSomething wrote:No, it's more like buying the Official Xbox Magazine and being upset that it is complete crap.

+1 to this.

MikeMcSomething wrote:No, it's more like buying the Official Xbox Magazine and being upset that it is complete crap.

Except that's not what the complaints that I was replying to were about.

Kindly try reading before making snide remarks from now on.