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Just got hold of some old White Dwarf issues at a car boot sale - theyre from a few years back. Got really nostalgic reading stuff i hadnt seen in years. Each magazine has loads of support for each game system including new rules, scenarios, new special characters, templates for making scenery - all sorts of good stuff. Reading though my recent issues of WD - i realised how poor they are compared to the old stuff - in fact (although this revelation may not come as a surprise to some!!!) they are more like a hundred pages of adverts for GW stuff nowadays with next to no support for the games themselves.

I feel like GW are missing a trick - the online community offers far more support than the creators of the game!!!! Dont even get me started about their excuse for a wedsite!!!

I for one would like to see GW get more invloved in providing interesting support for the game - the stuff from Forgeworld is excellent and a much needed addition to the core game.

Id like to see a little less of the inane musings of Jervis Johnson and endless articles telling us how good the newest Codex etc is and more modelling articles, spin-off rules (stuff like Kill Team etc) and such like.

..........on a last note their most recent battle report IG v Necrons - a necron win!!!!!!!! Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

HoundyDog wrote:Why has White Dwarf become so bad?????

Because it doesn't need to be good.

this has been know about for a very long time by (nearly) everyone on dakka, with multiple threads on the problems people now have with the lack-luster newer issues.

They don't need to do it anymore. With all the people doing it on the Internet for them for free. Why would they bother spending the money?

Depends what you want out of it really. Still contains scenarios. LotR gets new rule updates for new models, hell this year we got an expansion for 40k, and so on.

It has changed along with the company. And like with all things in life, don't like it, don't buy it. Don't buy it, then no need to complain.

I like to count all of the different ways to paint the Cave Troll, Aragorn, and Gimli that White Dwarf has posted over the years. A new way every month! My army of slilghtly differently shaded Cave Trolls was such a good investment for the hobby.

I would like to express the idea that other people may find value in articles you disdain, but was unable to come up with a polite way to do so.

I really only consider white dwarf a catalog with a batrep at the end.

Mr Mystery wrote:That's right. Because if you don't like the article, nobody else will.

Tosser.

Dakka rule no1 guys chill, no one has said anything that inflammatory. Personally I get very pissed off with the LOTR articles and the crap army lists in the battle report, I am now voting with my wallet and refusing to buy it unless there is another magazine such as the Spearhead edition - 1 every 12 months that'll do.

I can't speak for GW but I defintely remember that by the end of 3rd edition things were a bit crazy. Half the big black book was invalid and you needed Chapter Approved or WD articles to actually play. Vehicle rules and close combat in particular were totally different.

Vets were OK but it must have been madness for newbees.

there were also army lists and rules of uncertain validity scattered across books, WD issues and even the CJ. I came up with an IG army once that would require 13 different books to play (Inquisition allies, Arbites allies, Imperial Armor tanks, Harliquen Wraithlord... it was great!).

So there was a sudden change around the time 4th ed came out (2004 or 5) and WD stopped including new rules at all. There have been very few exceptions since then.

And I've not bought it regularly since.

White dwarf 191 was one of the best, had such valuable necromunda info.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I can't speak for GW but I defintely remember that by the end of 3rd edition things were a bit crazy. Half the big black book was invalid and you needed Chapter Approved or WD articles to actually play. Vehicle rules and close combat in particular were totally different.

Vets were OK but it must have been madness for newbees.

there were also army lists and rules of uncertain validity scattered across books, WD issues and even the CJ. I came up with an IG army once that would require 13 different books to play (Inquisition allies, Arbites allies, Imperial Armor tanks, Harliquen Wraithlord... it was great!).

So there was a sudden change around the time 4th ed came out (2004 or 5) and WD stopped including new rules at all. There have been very few exceptions since then.

And I've not bought it regularly since.

Yeah, I started playing during 3rd edition. My brother first picked up Necrons when their rules were only available in White Dwarf.

It was a crazy time. A billion different rules for just about every Space Marine chapter around. No two armies were ever alike. And, with the Vehicle Design Rules, you could make some seriously sick Vehicles. Or, even take your standard codex ones at a discount

It was a wild time, but I enjoyed it. I can imagine the "tournament level" players hated it since there were so many random rules running around. But, it was actually kinda fun having to ask your opponent not just what list he's running, but what all White Dwarf/Chapter Approved supplements he was applying.

I actually found the updated assault and vehicle rules hurt the more casual players in our league more, because they weren't as motived as the hardcore competitive guys to keep up on the rules.

Overall I think the move away from having official rules expansions in WD was the right thing to do, but they should still come up with some more cool optional stuff. New missions, for example.

It doesn't feel like I'm getting what I'm paying for.

It used to be more than "wow this army is great buy it".

I've never bought even a single White dwarf so I really don't care.

Then why post about it?

My first was issue 100 - I still get it out to flick through sometimes, along with all my old WDs - lots to read.

I have a sub now, but don't keep the issues once I've read 'em.

I was a big fan of the White Dwarf articles from 5-10 years ago. The magazine only appears to exist as a catalogue that costs $12. I’m yet to find a good incentive to buy the current magazine and here is why.

• No new rules. No one is saying that White Dwarf should go overboard again like 3rd edition but small stuff is definitely viable (like add on rules for older factions like what they used to do).
• No useful gaming articles apart from the usual “Why I think this faction is awesome” articles that appear when a new codex has been releases.
• No good batreps. The majority of the batreps in recent years appear to be poorly executed with the faction that has new models usually winning. There’s also a lack of diversity among bat reps as they usually contain either IG, Orcs or SM.

That being said, if White Dwarf contained even 1 out of the 3 options above, I’d probably buy it again. I seriously advise anyone not to buy White Dwarf unless you really like LOTR as there appears to be an abnormally large amount of LOTR articles in White Dwarf in recent times.

The really old ones had things like cartoons in them and short stories, things that were entertaining rather than solely focused on you buying GW stuff.
More modeling articles would be good, not ones about how to assemble existing kits but ones about kitbashing and using existing kits to add details to a larger structure or terrain piece.

I've been reading WD since the mid/late 80's, so 25 years or so... jeez that's crazy not that I think on it lol.

It used to be bursting with creativity, short stories, rules, conversions, bat-reps, bio's... I agree that now it feels more like I'm paying them to advertise to me, when it should be the other way around. But, at the same time, I still enjoy the batreps, masterclass articles, and what little there is of fluff and creativity.

To me, the answer is simple as to what happend to it. It went from a forum style discussion and mish-mash about the hobby and 'lifestyle', one where whims and quick ideas could be expressed without planning, to a methodical, business oriented and carefully planned promotional supplement.

In other words, the nerds grew up and got more interested in coin than sci-fi and fantasy, sold it to suits and here we are.

White Dwarf was once a key part of an expanding game line. It's where new rules and new games were first put out for trial.

But the game lines have matured now, armies are largely set and GW is committed to its three main games (so there's no more interesting Man'o'War, Necromunda or BF Gothic stuff). So there's not much to put in White Dwarf, and so it sucks. It's been like this for maybe a hundred magazines now.

Arschbombe wrote:

HoundyDog wrote:Why has White Dwarf become so bad?????

Because it doesn't need to be good.

Over in one, in my opinion. While there content has obviously declined significantly in quality, if enough people were unhappy, they would not subscribe. Hence, it would either stop being published, or it would change. As neither of those have happened... it's clearly good enough.

I don't feel I get a bad value from my subscription overall. I subscribed for the first time about 6 months ago, and my "one-year subscription" is 15 issues. Compare to, like, Finescale Modeler: Their idea of a year's subscription is 10 issues, and at least 60 to 80% of the magazine is pure advertising. I will not resubscribe to FSM for $35, but will likely resubscribe to WD for $75 despite how diminished it is from years past.

Ouze wrote:

Arschbombe wrote:

HoundyDog wrote:Why has White Dwarf become so bad?????

Because it doesn't need to be good.

Over in one, in my opinion. While there content has obviously declined significantly in quality, if enough people were unhappy, they would not subscribe. Hence, it would either stop being published, or it would change. As neither of those have happened... it's clearly good enough.

I don't feel I get a bad value from my subscription overall. I subscribed for the first time about 6 months ago, and my "one-year subscription" is 15 issues. Compare to, like, Finescale Modeler: Their idea of a year's subscription is 10 issues, and at least 60 to 80% of the magazine is pure advertising.

Yes. With WD you get 100% advertising. I have been a subscriber for many years but I'm letting it expire this time. If you look at a WD from ten years ago and compare it to what it currently is you'll see why all the hubbub.
Did you know that you used to get a free regiment or credit for mail order bitz just for subscribing? Nowdays you get the privelege to buy the Subscriber only figure. How times have changed.

Become?

I appraciate that this revelation come to all newcomers eventually but WD had been going downhill since LOTR [what 10 years?] was introduced as a main line and the Specialist Games were dropped from its pages [possibly before that].

WD is okay. You are right though it is not what it was.

inzeos wrote:They don't need to do it anymore. With all the people doing it on the Internet for them for free. Why would they bother spending the money?

It's a shame there isn't a hobby magazine for GW, a real hobby one not the catalogue they currently churn out. Problem is they tightly control their IP so most of the imaginative hobby ideas out there have to hide on the internet. Only they can produce a magazine for their hobby and the one they make is gak.

We've discussed this to death, but the current state of WD is nothing new, it had a long decline and has been what it is for quite a few years now. Much of the best stuff was in issues up to #150, but there was plenty to read up to #250, after #300 there was very little at all worth looking at.

I guess they think the profit-readership-effort balance is more appealing to them now. Rather than produce a hobby magazine that requires some real imaginative input and creativity they churn out a wad of adverts and thinly disguised advertising in the form of repetitive painting guides and battle reports, it's cheap, it's fast and it is solely focusses on sales rather than fostering a hobby and customers. This reflects their sales strategy, they get new customers in fast, suck them dry for a year and then don't care if the stay or go later on because the real money is in new customers. It's all part of the corporate hard-sell approach that they have increasingly favoured over many years now.

It really is one of the worst wargaming publications in the shops and also one of the most expensive.

HoundyDog wrote:Just got hold of some old White Dwarf issues at a car boot sale - theyre from a few years back. Got really nostalgic reading stuff i hadnt seen in years. Each magazine has loads of support for each game system including new rules, scenarios, new special characters, templates for making scenery - all sorts of good stuff. Reading though my recent issues of WD - i realised how poor they are compared to the old stuff - in fact (although this revelation may not come as a surprise to some!!!) they are more like a hundred pages of adverts for GW stuff nowadays with next to no support for the games themselves.

I feel like GW are missing a trick - the online community offers far more support than the creators of the game!!!! Dont even get me started about their excuse for a wedsite!!!

I for one would like to see GW get more invloved in providing interesting support for the game - the stuff from Forgeworld is excellent and a much needed addition to the core game.

Id like to see a little less of the inane musings of Jervis Johnson and endless articles telling us how good the newest Codex etc is and more modelling articles, spin-off rules (stuff like Kill Team etc) and such like.

..........on a last note their most recent battle report IG v Necrons - a necron win!!!!!!!! Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

The reason is because they do not have serious magazine talent to produce a serious product.

The sham that WD has become is because they are producing the magazine from a standard template with no area for individual efforts, nor any reason to produce anything of value, aside from the standard party line of "This army of the moth is new... buy it!"

You will not see anything of what you wish, because they removed those people from the positions that used to come up with the material that was worth reading about.

WD RIP.

Tell all your friends to use the money for miniatures, and let this dog die.

Id rather spend the money on a dirty magazine. And im not talking sand+water (unless it has girls in it).

Seriously though... Umm... Yeah White Dwarf sux. As more stuff become available on the Web, the mag got worse.

Print is dead.

It's another thing the internet ruined.

I don't lay it all at GWs feet, many magazines are gone, I'm a little surprised they still sell them in the gorcery...

This is an endlessly answered question here on Dakka.

The old WD's were THE best. Let's take WD 294 for example. The Sisters had had their releases and support for two months, and now it was time for the new Warhammer Campaign: Storm of Chaos.

...but the best thing about it was the random battle report - Tyranids versus Imperial Guard. It was played by two people at GW HQ with their own painted armies. It was totally random. There was loads of really cool narrative to build up to the batrep, and it was well-written and laid out - every turn is explained and described by the player in question. My favourite part is:

"On the sourthern slopes of the battlefield, trees fell, aboreal creatures scattered and squirrels were squashed as Carnifex 1 stomped it's way clear of the woods, intent on stopping the Leman Russ Demolisher from impending the swarm's progress."

...and let's not forget the triumphant handshake at the end! Oh yeah, and George Dellapina's Ork Speed Freeks! (They were made out of toy truck parts.)

The last good thing in WD in recent years - I think - is the Tale of Four Gamers (40k) series. That's about it really. Maybe the Apocalypse coverage also. And a few painting articles here and there. But it's all advertisment when it comes to it. The soul of the White Dwarf is no longer in residence within the pages of his own magazine. Please return Grombrindal!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Augustus wrote:Print is dead.

It's another thing the internet ruined.

I don't lay it all at GWs feet, many magazines are gone, I'm a little surprised they still sell them in the gorcery...

True. Money money money money!

I enjoy my white dwarf magazines. Granted i don't pay for it and Im only 15 but I love the masterclasses.