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OverwatchCNC wrote:It's Magnus no question. I can't imagine any of the other Primarchs being as screwed over as he was. First by the Chaos Gods, then the Emperor, then by Horus.

1. Emprah told you choas= no no Listen to him.
2. If you'd done 1 then this aint a problem
# horus is a anyways so cant do much there

coolyo294 wrote:None, they're all filthy heretic traitors.

says the guy with the Iron warriors avatar

f all the traitor primarchs I think Angron's turning could have been the easiest to avoid, or at least made to turn out a different. Angron's enemies only had black powder level tech, the Emperor could have blasted them from orbit. Or since Angron respected martial prowess above all other things, why not FIGHT ALONGSIDE him and win his everlasting loyalty.

The more I think about that, the more I wonder why: The Emperor was there, he had at least one ship, he was at the peak of his power why didn't he just uber psyker slap the crap out of the invaders and be like "Yeah I saved you all without blinking now bow down to my epicness." and cement their loyalty like you said, He must have woke up on the wrong side of his big comfy throne that day:

"Maybe I should help em out and gain a little respect......nope screw it, don't feel like it."



Anyway, My vote goes to *drumroll* a tie between Magnus and Fulgrim

Magnus, in my opinion, despite what everyone else has said, tried to make up for what he did at least a little, but ended screwing himself over in the process:

"HEY DAD! YOU GOTTA LISTEN, HORUS IS....*webway shatters* ooops, did I do that?"

cant help but feel that he got backed into a corner by his own stupidity and his own good (or bad) intentions

Fulgrim because well, he realized what he did but by then it was too late, and that I think is the worst feeling any mortal can experience: regret.

DA's Forever wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote:It's Magnus no question. I can't imagine any of the other Primarchs being as screwed over as he was. First by the Chaos Gods, then the Emperor, then by Horus.

1. Emprah told you choas= no no Listen to him.
2. If you'd done 1 then this aint a problem
# horus is a anyways so cant do much there

Sure, except the Emperor never actually revealed the truth about the Chaos Gods to any of his sons. Even Magnus who made a deal with them didn't fully understand because his father had never deemed it important to tell his most psychically/warp powered son the truth about what was out there.

true, but if he'd just listen like a good child he'd not have had problems anyways, but since when do kids listen eh?

although what i got from lorgar in "the first heretic" was that he was kinda almost just a little kid letting himself be swayed by his adopted father (kor phaeron)

necrongod wrote:although what i got from lorgar in "the first heretic" was that he was kinda almost just a little kid letting himself be swayed by his adopted father (kor phaeron)

Exactly i felt as if Lorgar had nothing to be with the turning off his legion other than be a figure head.

I give it to Angron. He's half lobotomized, raged out of his skull. Out of all the primarchs, the Emperor basically kidnaps him, unlike every other primarch, who the Emperor sets up as lords of their homeworlds. Leaves all his friends to die, instead of recruiting or helping them, like as happens on every other primarch's world. Then said " deal with it" and ditches out. He got the shaft, but hard.

Magnus - Felt sorry for him at the start but buy the end of a thousand sons it was less pitty more 'well you had it coming you arrogant '.

Fulgrim/Perturabo/Mortarion - Do. Not. Care.

Konrad Curze - I recall somewere were he pointer out that he and his legion basically whored away their humanity for the Imperium, which then turned and shunned him for what he had done so yeah, he gets some pity.

Angron - Someone already pointed out that he was forced to let his friends be massacred, and for that he gets some sympathy but thats no excuse for turning.

Alpharius/Omegon - Don't really get any pity, they knew what they were doing the whole time.

Horus - NO. Not even a little. He was just being s spoiled brat. He reminds me a lot of Lucifer from season 5 of supernatural, sure hes this uber-big bad guy, but all the other big important peoples opinions of him are basically 'you were the favorite, then dad started giving the humans more attention than you so now your breaking all his toys'.

Lorgar - Gets my vote after reading the 1st part of the 1st hieratic (although my opinion might change by the end). So far he is the most compassionate and caring of the primarchs and as he points out it took the Emperor 100 years to tell him everything he was doing was wrong.

I don't pity the traitor Primarchs for anything they did after they were reunited with their Father. He pretty much set them up for life and they betrayed him. Even Curze to a degree had the Emperors assassins coming to him for a long time. He had been censured more than once for the way he bought planets to compliance.

Now their early lives you can feel sorry for a couple of them. Curze and Angron mainly for how they were bought up. One knew nothing but blood and slaughter and the other nothing but shadows and murder. Stuff like that is going to mess you up.

Horus, he only turned after the anthame almost killed him and his healing was done under the guidance of the local chaos cult, both thanks to Erebus. In a severely weakened state he was exposed to chaos, the rest openly went over due to their own stupidity of one form or another. Magnus was heading down the road to corruption anyway, he was consorting with chaos powers he had seriously underestimated which would have seen him and his legion destroyed whether he joined the traitors or not.

Magnus tried to guide Horus and revealed the intentions of Erebus to him. When Horus saw the truth he still chose to turn traitor and ignite the Imperium in war rather than to put faith in one of his most beloved brothers and trust him.

Horus doesn't deserve pity, he deserved more than having his soul destroyed by the Emperor. He got off lightly.

That's my 20 pence on Horus

The Emperor himself ignored Magnus, why should Horus have listened to him?

Curze gets my vote. He let himself get assassinated, surely that shows some form of willingness to repent, even if his only option is redemption through death.

Fulgrim,not only was he loyal at heart,he saw the truth as Ferrus died,and what's worse,is that now he can only watch in silent horror as the Daemon carries out Slaaneshs will in his body.

Next is maybe Alpharius Omegon since he was still loyal. And now he is doomed since the Emperor defeated Horus,despite the Cabals vision.

cadbren wrote:The Emperor himself ignored Magnus, why should Horus have listened to him?

Touche

Horus was a different case, he listened and knew his brothers. For him to choose the lies of Erebus over the truth of Magnus is a sum up of his character. The Emperor didn't give enough heed to Magnus warning agreed, but the Emperor said no more psychic stuff or I will kill you and what does Magnus go and do ... If he would have used a Astropath the Emperor would've listened more intently. It was Magnus ego and attempt to show to his father that he was in control that was his downfall.

Ribon Fox wrote:None, they turned their backs on us therefore deserve to burn in the Eye of Terror.

Don't be too quick to judge them, sir. Most of them joined like most other followers of Chaos, unwittingly and\or unwillingly.

Isn't a father who turned his back on his children a traitor?

Manchu wrote:Pity for traitors? :spits on thread:

Monster Rain wrote:Agreed. He knew what he was doing long before Nikaea. The deal he made with Chaos to save his Legion proved that.

I feel worse for his Legion than I do for him.

Utterly correct in every way.

Tottaly agreed!

magnus because

Magnus: DAD I GOT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT HORUS *webway shatters*.... oops....

Emporah: WHAT THE F K SON!?

I feel sorry for most of them to be honest, if I had to pick one though I'd probably go with Horus.

He always seemed like a victim to me, whose mind was warped by outside influences. He given a huge responsibilty but at the same time has little power over his father choices.

If i recall he is against the collecting of tithes from newly conquered worlds as they are still recovering from the devestation unifcation has caused but in unable to do much to stop it apart from overload the collectors with statisical information.

Kurze for me, he was the least deluded and even accepted death for his sins. Not to mention he's basically what would happen to batman in the 40k universe, what was that quote from dark knight "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain", he choose a death on his own terms as opposed to inevitable instrumentality to chaos (I mean hes in the eye of terror on a planet made out of living flesh, he'll get corrupted eventually).

I thinks thats exactly why I don't feel pity for him, he knows what he is doing and excepts his punishment. There is no twist of fate or conspiracy to bring him low, he just has a different idea on how the imperium should be managed.

Either Magnus or Angron.

Magnus because he actually wasn't a traitor and Angron because the Emperor let his friends die.

Kurze, because his devotion was his downfall.

Tossup between lorgar and magnus for various reasons

Angron would have refused the Emperors help I am certain plus i dont think Angron was capable of friendship.

Lorgar was manipulated by the gods of chaos and Kor Phaeron and Erebus, He felt ashamed of himself when he saw the field of Istvaan V and when he saw Ferrus and Fulgrim fighting, He never wanted to be a warrior, His biggest fault was his disire to believe in divinity and his desperation for the "truth" Most of the perversion of the Word Bearers was done while his back was turned.

Fulgrim doesnt get a whole lot of sympathy from me as up until the moment he killed Ferrus he believed that turning his back on the Emperor and the Imperium was right

Curze and Lorgar 'cos the emperor screwed them over for doing as they were told (especially lorgar, utter humilliation is way too harsh) and to a lesser degree magnus who did what he could but... well, we know how that ended up.

DA's Forever wrote:[ The greatest psyker ever tells you he has plan for you, you listen!

This!

"Theres no such thing as a plea of innocence, a plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time."

Heretical filth deserves all it gets coming to it. -

In The Emperor, we Trust.

I have to agree with the Angron comments, the Emperor screws him over from the very start by tearing him away from his fellow slaves when they needed him most. I know hes a nutter but that cant have helped.

deffinatly alpharius, he wanted to stay loyal to the impirium but had to join horus to keep humanity alive, poor alpharius