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I liked the olden days (showing my age) when I was in my first 40K honeymoon, there was a Space Wolves Codex, Angels of Death and Codex: Ultramarines. And you know what? It worked fine.

And I don't think we need generic army builder/non-character lists. Oh, yay, yet more random, unpredictable armies. At least if you know you're facing Wolves, Blood Angels, Shrike or so on and so forth, you have a rough idea of what you'll be up against.

What the hell do you do if someone says 'yeah, it's my homebrew Chapter, the Blazing Daggers'.

Oh. Good. Thanks for that....

SumYungGui wrote:Yeah the game pretty much doesn't need another marine codex. I think almost 50% of all the books out there is more than enough when they're being laughably 'justified' by such ludicrously slim margins of difference from each other.

Yea...

Once again you add no value to the conversation.

Why even hop into SM threads if you are just going to use it as a jumping point to rant about how the game is worse because of the prevalance of players and their army choices.


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oni wrote:I'd like to see Red Scorpions make their way out of Imperial Armour and into their own codex.

I just dont think they deviate enough to warrant a sanctioned codex.

oni wrote:I'd like to see Red Scorpions make their way out of Imperial Armour and into their own codex.

I just dont think they deviate enough to warrant a sanctioned codex.

Commander Endova wrote:

oni wrote:I'd like to see Red Scorpions make their way out of Imperial Armour and into their own codex.

I just dont think they deviate enough to warrant a sanctioned codex.

Precisely. They, what, have more Apothecaries? Besides, if its a valid list, you need permission to use it just as much as any other army list. If I don;t feel like playing against a certain army today, I won;t, FW or GW.

I would hate to see a new SM codex, but if I had to choose, it'd be Iron Hands. Not enough fluff on them at the moment, plus radically different from Codex chapters.

Give us Codex: Angry Marines

Dashofpepper wrote:Give us Codex: Angry Marines

+1 to that.

I would be against the Red Scorpions being made into an official GW codex. It's a Forge World Chapter and I think they should deserve to keep it for themselves. That, and Marine Dexes should at least be based off the founding chapters first (I dislike the BT codex somewhat because of that).

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Give us Codex: Angry Marines

+1 to that.

I would be against the Red Scorpions being made into an official GW codex. It's a Forge World Chapter and I think they should deserve to keep it for themselves. That, and Marine Dexes should at least be based off the founding chapters first (I dislike the BT codex somewhat because of that).

I was actually just reading through the Baddab War PT1. They make it in their with Culln who can, as I said above allow you to replace sergeants with Apoth's and grant FNP.

Pretty simple really and not that radical of a change.

Do the Chaos Space Marines not count as Space Marines anymore?

What I would like to see is the Chaos Space Marine book broken in half in order to fully represent all of the Traitor legions.


Codex: Chaos Legions:
This book would contain the 4 god specific legions and the Black Legion. You would get to pick from the 4 cult troops and then have a bunch of god specific choices in each FOC. You could summon demons that had god specific abilities and the like as well. (lesser and greater but less powerful than the Chaos Demon ones).

Codex: Chaos Renegades:
This book would have the rules for playing a Word Bearer, Iron Warriors, Night Lord, or Alpha Legion army. The troops would be standard marines or cultists/mutants/traitor guard, special characters unlock Chosen/Raptors/Possessed as troops. Then you would have a combination of Guard artillery, Civilian vehicles, and Space Marine equipment

The Chaos space marine book is the most hated 40k book. Splitting it in half would allow for all of the traitor legions to be played with fluffy army lists and the two books would be different as the Chaos Legions would be a more elite low model count army, and the Chaos Renegades would be a MEQ/Horde combination. At minimum there should be one special character for each legion. If they all stay in the same book, that is 9 special characters, not including people like Bile or Huron

I like the concept of a codex designed around making your own chapter. I mean heck I would be happy if they just added 3-4 "official" pages to the 5th, allowing you to select certain traits and abilities using some kinda points or (You take this you can't have those two in return.) kinda deal. Sure you can design your own models, lore, but what good is it when your Leader who wields a special power sword design to burn the flesh of any xeno who touches it not acutely have that kinda power.?

as for SM codexes I would like to see. Any Space marine chapter that is considered heretical in some way but is truly loyal. Like the Lost and the damned, and the Soul drinkers.

Also remember there is now several chapters in the Forge World IA books that you can field with there own different characteristics.

Is FW stuff tourny legal?

CoI wrote:Is FW stuff tourny legal?

Depends entirely on the event in question. There is no, and never has been, universal tournament standard for pts, army legality, etc.

If GW ever did another SM codex, it should be Cursed Founding, or perhaps something like Codex: Cursed Astartes.

Minotaurs, Black Dragons, and other, near-mutant, Space Marines, as well as chapter that have had rampant mutation in their gene seed and been declared Exterminatus.

Or maybe Deathwatch.

I'd like to see either Relictors, as they seem the most distant from Vanilla that don't have a Codex, or Blood Ravens, because it ties Dawn of War to 40k and I don't have a problem with that being used as a marketing link to bring new players into the hobby.

While I like the idea of gathering marines and putting them into a single book, I have 2 major problems with it. 1) That book is going to run nearly $100, its GW you know its true. 2) Less fluff. How much fluff does any single chapter, non Ultramarines, get in C:SM? Compare that to the amount of fluff in any of the non vanilla dex and you see my complaint. Fluff is good, less is bad.

If I had to choose one I'd go with a new CSM book with rules for individual legions, including the Fallen Dark Angels.

Luco wrote:While I like the idea of gathering marines and putting them into a single book, I have 2 major problems with it. 1) That book is going to run nearly $100, its GW you know its true. 2) Less fluff. How much fluff does any single chapter, non Ultramarines, get in C:SM? Compare that to the amount of fluff in any of the non vanilla dex and you see my complaint. Fluff is good, less is bad.

If I had to choose one I'd go with a new CSM book with rules for individual legions, including the Fallen Dark Angels.

Point 1 is addressed with a redone and not-slowed chapter traits mechanism. There is seriously only enough wargear out there across all the SM books to make one slightly-bigger codex . It's all so similar that there would be no true sacrifice and it's for the greater good of the hobby anyway. Point 2 is almost not even a point because the fluff of SPESS MUHREENS isn't going to just vanish if it's not written in the codex. There's so many other sources of more and more and more and more and more marine fluff that it's just not feasible to think of it as a problem.

Luco wrote:While I like the idea of gathering marines and putting them into a single book, I have 2 major problems with it. 1) That book is going to run nearly $100, its GW you know its true. 2) Less fluff. How much fluff does any single chapter, non Ultramarines, get in C:SM? Compare that to the amount of fluff in any of the non vanilla dex and you see my complaint. Fluff is good, less is bad.

If I had to choose one I'd go with a new CSM book with rules for individual legions, including the Fallen Dark Angels.

Personally I think a standard "vanilla" book with basic army list and all the "generic" marine background should be produced like the current Codex, and a quality book similar to the Imperial Armour books should then be produced with Index Astartes type articles, special characters etc covering various Chapters. Imperial Armour books run in the region of 200 pages, and probably used about 10 pages per Chapter for background, colour schemes and special characters.

On the subject of Blood Ravens, you really should be able to have a Blood Ravens character. Librarian Special Character who makes Librarians an elite choice.

Ravenguard
Red Scorpions
Crimson Fists
Salamanders
White scars

Fafnir wrote:If they absolutely had to go down that route, I'd prefer if they built a codex specifically around designing your own chapter.

I completely agree. The old doctrines/trait systems were a great idea, just poorly realized. They could really go far trying to improve that concept. The current system of special characters and ICs unlocking abilities is inherently imbalanced.

Really what I'd like to see is GW move away from books entirely, and go to free PDFs. They don't make a significant portion of their income of 'dexes, and it would allow easier and more frequent updates (doing away with FAQs altogether!).

The idea of creating your own chapter codex its just awesome!! They should also give you a list of special rules for you to choose to create your own combat doctrine. So you can be abit of BA and Vanilla or like White scars and Black templars. The possibilities could be endless!

What if! Now stay with me. The Codex worked a little bit like this.


1.First off, The Basic breakdown of the chapter. How its formations work. You can select whether or not your chapter follows the set up that most marines do or something like
how the space wolves do. In other words, Does your HQ go up to 4 or 2?

The special rules and weapons and everything in the codex is based off of what is already there for the other chapters for example.

2.Special Rules for all marines. You get a selection of ONE special rule from any chapter that is like. Red Thirst or whatever its called. Counter attack etc. In addition to what is normally
done for all marines no matter who they are.

3.Weapon Selections and War Gear would be selected from all the other chapters but each one is very specific. Such as you can only have so many of X kind of weapons and you must take bolter and chainsword and can only choose between x and y for these kinds of weapons. So your chapter is very limited but flexable for what it can have in its wargear. So you want a special kind of pistol only the blood angels should have? Well its in your wargear next to the plasma pistol.

4.What is available to troops - Troops can only be as good as Grey Hunters. So the best possible set up if you want to go that route is something akin to what they have.
Each set up and points value is based off what the points values and restictions of the codex its taken from.

5.Vehicles - Opens all vehicles and options up if you want them too!

6.Universal and Additional Special Rules - You can add any universal or additional special rule to any character or even rename your rules to however you would like them to be named. However you only get a certain amount of points in which to "buy" these for your army. Such as "Ambush" would cost 100 points for a sneaky space marine of yours who is the captain of your scouts. Now you have 400 points left to buy more special rules.

I like what Vasarto is onto. I'd modify the concept slightly, however.

I'd integrate the chapter customization aspect with a "stratagem points" system, a la Cities of Death or Apoc, but well call them "Chapter Points." Use strict adherence to the Codex Astartes as a baseline, and every departure from the default costs Chapter Points, instead of point off the army list. In addition, some of the "flavor" ones can be free, like some of the special rules tat are currently attached to some special characters.

Some examples:

-All models with Chapter Tactics may trade it for Fleet...0CP
-Trade a Heavy Support slot for a Fast Attack Slot...0CP
-Scouts are WS/BS4...1CP
-Assault Squads may be taken as Troops...1CP
-Bike Squads may be taken as Troops...1CP
-Terminator Squads may be taken as Troops...2CP
-May Take Dreadnought Librarians...2 CP
-May take 4 HQ choices...3CP

And so on. Obviously the specifics and the the specific costs need to be balanced and hammered out, but thats the basic idea.

shealyr wrote:If GW ever did another SM codex, it should be Cursed Founding, or perhaps something like Codex: Cursed Astartes.

Minotaurs, Black Dragons, and other, near-mutant, Space Marines, as well as chapter that have had rampant mutation in their gene seed and been declared Exterminatus.

Now THAT might be a reason to make another SM codex, which we really don't need.

We do not need another SM codex.

Having said that we do NOT need yet another SM codex, this would allow us to make some different armies at least.

GW didn't even have to make it, the SM codex that we don't need, to only be about rampant mutation. Chapters like Son of Anteus might also appear in such a codex, which we don't need.

i like the custom army idea, i hate the way some chapters get all this good wargear that other chapters cant have (blood angels in particular)

SumYungGui wrote:

Luco wrote:While I like the idea of gathering marines and putting them into a single book, I have 2 major problems with it. 1) That book is going to run nearly $100, its GW you know its true. 2) Less fluff. How much fluff does any single chapter, non Ultramarines, get in C:SM? Compare that to the amount of fluff in any of the non vanilla dex and you see my complaint. Fluff is good, less is bad.

If I had to choose one I'd go with a new CSM book with rules for individual legions, including the Fallen Dark Angels.

Point 1 is addressed with a redone and not-slowed chapter traits mechanism. There is seriously only enough wargear out there across all the SM books to make one slightly-bigger codex . It's all so similar that there would be no true sacrifice and it's for the greater good of the hobby anyway. Point 2 is almost not even a point because the fluff of SPESS MUHREENS isn't going to just vanish if it's not written in the codex. There's so many other sources of more and more and more and more and more marine fluff that it's just not feasible to think of it as a problem.

really, i count 2 books for the da that don't even go into the background except for a tiny prick in time. Do tell what is a greater source of their fluff other than their codex? I'd like to get a hold of these materials.

Those who keep saying there dosen't need to be another SM army, get over it. The discussion isn't about if one is needed or not, please stay on topic thank you

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Those who keep saying there dosen't need to be another SM army, get over it. The discussion isn't about if one is needed or not, please stay on topic thank you

KHORNE DOESNT GET OVER THINGS!

I agree with Blood Ravens, if only to tie the DoW series into the hobby.

But the Blood Ravens aren't recognised as an official chapter in GW fluff are they? I mean I've seen people make their armies into SMs (one guy did a Apocalypse force with 1 Librarian for every squad in his army) but I don't think GW is going to take something someone else made and put it into their own scheme ya know? They kind of stick to the idea that if they didn't make it it dosen't go in.....by god they're nerds with power


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sorry I ment make their SM armies in BR