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I am old enough to have played RT, but I actually just started 40K a couple years ago. I have bought a bunch of old metal Space-Orks on ebay and through trades and I like the 'character.'

I do prefer the newer plastic kits - so I routinely put the big new 'buff' Ork arms on the old metal models (I do not like their weedy little arms) I have a cool unit of the old metal mad-boys. I am currently making a 'nob squad' out of some of the more 'massive' old metal models - with newer nob-box arms. I run a lot of old Ork trucks and bikes too.

Kilkrazy wrote:You of course are free from all emotional bias and attachment due to personal history.

Generally, no. Regarding the topic at hand, I came into the hobby late, trolling Ebay for deals on models before really looking at much source material, old or new. I frequently came across older models and I always passed on them, regardless of potential savings over newer sculpts. I had no prior experience that would endear me to the older style nor was I yet grounded in the current edition, which leads to the point I was stressing - my choice was purely aesthetic. I was exposed to a whole range of sculpts simultaneously and gravitated towards the newer ones, even at a greater personal expense in acquiring them. There's nothing wrong with sentimentalism influencing personal aesthetics. My apologies if I appeared to be claiming a moral superiority for having a fresh set of eyes, as it were.

Kilkrazy wrote:Even so, lots of the modern figures are very mis-proportioned in terms of their scale relation to actual human bodies.

This is entirely true, but I feel that there is a much better sense of proportion within the scope of individual models now than with older sculpts, as well as more and sharper detail (although the latter point is as much a result of improved casting tech as it is the quality of the initial sculpts, which the tech, to a degree, governs by imposing an upper limit).

Well, perhaps I took umbrage rather hastily.

All has ended well, at any rate.

Let's celebrate with a drink!

Kilkrazy wrote:

Tons of the modern models are ridiculously proportioned.

Hence the reason they are called 28mm "heroic" scale and not 28mm true scale.

Kilkrazy wrote:All has ended well, at any rate.

Good, because my first post was exaggerated mainly for effect rather than in seriousness nor, I hope, due a "nigh-offensively strong bias".

I think the old models cave a nice charm,they certainly are very imaginative.

I'm a bit too young to remember them,but I think modern models are better,we now have a clear and rich background.

I love the old Gorka Morka Orks, they were cool.

I dont have a preference either way, I like seeing old and new models on the table, except old DE...

Hmmm..False nostalgia much?

Are they really better (no) or are they just different (yes)

I like both era's of minis! Tough to find old ones though.


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Kilkrazy wrote:Well, perhaps I took umbrage rather hastily.

All has ended well, at any rate.

Let's celebrate with a drink!

Why stop at one?

That looks suspiciously like a PBR?

I completely understand the nostalgia for the old models that were out around -or just before- the time I started gaming. I used to dig some neat stuff out of the bargain bin at the local model shop.

I indulged my nostalgia while back and picked up some RT IG, Metal Magic Spacelords and Bob Olley Space Dwarves. They were great to look at, but in the end, I didn't have a use for them, and they were just too different from the models I already had. Most of them got sold off.

I have some other older figures, and a number of 2nd edition figures in my BA army, but in 40k, anything pre-2nd edition (and alot of 2nd edition stuff) has been made asthetically obsolete.

As to the OP's desire for more variety of figs, that's easy. GW has gotten more uniform in the last decade and a half, but that same time period has seen tons of new miniatures companies. Try buying a few figs that arent' made by GW!

Lastly, in GW's defense, the new range of plastic kits offers possibilities for conversion unheard of in the RT era.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:I dont like the old models. I think they take 40k and throw it into the large bin of "cheesy 80's sci-fi" stuff. I got into 40k because of the look at the atmosphere that the world has. If I had seen the RT models instead of the current plastic ones, I must say I would have ignored it and never considered it again.

Yes, but those models were appropriate for that time. If you had grown up in late Thatcher's Britain, the 40k rulebook and the range of models that were released late 80's/early 90's fitted the spirit of the time exactly. I think if you ask any 25+ player nowadays, almost certainly the initial thing that would have drawn them in was a curiosity towards the models. Mine was a copy of WD and the 'eavy metal section (I can still remember a specific model, a strangely camoflauged green beakie, wonderfully painted), for others it was seeing the models in a store.

But no doubt the same thing will happen in 20 years (if we are fortunate to still have a company, and it hasn't been bought out by Bandai) and those people who come into the hobby at that time will laugh at the slightly ridiculous but charming design ethos of the models produced nowadays

I pray to God that we don't go back to the horrible looking old minis. Nagash model, anyone?

Haha yes of course, Nagash: Comedy lord of the Undead.

I agree that model, along with the Ogre cheerleader, marked a particular low point of modelling (although the latter will still get you a few laughs if you pull the model out).

And like I said above, of course it won't go back to that type of design concept - they represent the spirit of that time, it's like praying that massive perms and power ballads don't return to the top of the music charts!

Although there are still some poor models released nowadays - I'm not fond of the latest batch of Minotaurs, or the Chaos possessed (which I think really highlight what the posters above me have been saying about Chaos) but I realise in any case these things are subjective.

Lost Boyz wrote:I am old enough to have played RT, but I actually just started 40K a couple years ago. I have bought a bunch of old metal Space-Orks on ebay and through trades and I like the 'character.'

I do prefer the newer plastic kits - so I routinely put the big new 'buff' Ork arms on the old metal models (I do not like their weedy little arms) I have a cool unit of the old metal mad-boys. I am currently making a 'nob squad' out of some of the more 'massive' old metal models - with newer nob-box arms. I run a lot of old Ork trucks and bikes too.

How much smaller are the older (pre-Gorkamorka?) Orks versus the new ones? Do they look grossly out of proportion?

starhawks1 wrote:I hate old models. Honestly, I don't understand how anyone can truly think they look better, they are nothing short of revolting, if a newer, much better, plastic model is available, why use older ones?

It's more about the character, the old Chaos models were much more...insane, random, chaotic, physically weird. Very much cool for Chaos units. Granted yes compared to the new plastics the sculpts are terrible and detail is mediocre, but the newer CSM's are basically just slightly varied loyalist SM's, and the available mutations just look silly. They lack the insane tripped out drug feel of the ooooold CSM's.

bsohi wrote:I pray to God that we don't go back to the horrible looking old minis. Nagash model, anyone?

Nagash is just a horrible offender, and even compared to old sculpts he's hideous. There's a reason Gary Morley isn't doing Warhammer or 40k sculpts anymore. Considering some of the models that came out around the same time as Nagash are Eldar Vypers, jetbikes, and most of the warlocks, age isn't an issue. A good sculpt is a good sculpt, and a bad one is a bad one.

Let me throw this out there...

Since they were all metal, there was a lot more variation to the sculpts, a lot more character. Nowadays we have a lot of generic stuff that is incredibly versatile, but is a lot more standard in terms of we see the same parts over and over.

Chaos marines are a great example of this, there used to be so much character and variety, now if feels more like PA with arrows. I miss Glam Rocker Metal Marines, with a high heel on one foot and a freaking tit out lol! If that isn't freaky I don't know what is.

Doctor Optimal wrote:

Lost Boyz wrote:I am old enough to have played RT, but I actually just started 40K a couple years ago. I have bought a bunch of old metal Space-Orks on ebay and through trades and I like the 'character.'

I do prefer the newer plastic kits - so I routinely put the big new 'buff' Ork arms on the old metal models (I do not like their weedy little arms) I have a cool unit of the old metal mad-boys. I am currently making a 'nob squad' out of some of the more 'massive' old metal models - with newer nob-box arms. I run a lot of old Ork trucks and bikes too.

How much smaller are the older (pre-Gorkamorka?) Orks versus the new ones? Do they look grossly out of proportion?

Significantly smaller. But if there's an army that isn't going to look terrible with a variety of model sizes it's probably Orks.
The old metals (and plastics) also had pretty large areas for the little t-shirt sleeve arms to attach to so the modern beefy arms probably fit there nicely.

I'm a big fan of the pre-GorkaMorka pre-Brian Nelson Orks, back when they had more of a sense of fun about them. I loved the Blod Axe Kommandos of 2nd Edition:

and them Stormboyz were pretty cool also. As were the old Goff Rockers, if I could find a pic

Cable wrote:I like both era's of minis! Tough to find old ones though.


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Kilkrazy wrote:Well, perhaps I took umbrage rather hastily.

All has ended well, at any rate.

Let's celebrate with a drink!

Why stop at one?

That looks suspiciously like a PBR?

It was a Heineken, at a hotel in Bunol, Spain, at about four in the morning before the annual Tomatina festival.

I like a lot of both.

Some have had some real longevitry. Most of the Eldar Warlocks were released before 2nd Edition.

I think the 'Bug Eye' Farseer is the best looking one, though the current one is better than the 'Bulwinkle' Farseer from 3rd ed.

I think there are some design decisions that were made back then that are better than now, but now they have better technical capabilities.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:I dont like the old models. I think they take 40k and throw it into the large bin of "cheesy 80's sci-fi" stuff. I got into 40k because of the look at the atmosphere that the world has. If I had seen the RT models instead of the current plastic ones, I must say I would have ignored it and never considered it again.

Well, that just means that they did a good job with those old models, considering that at the time they were made 40K was actually cheesy late 80's sci-fi stuff...

Comparing RT/2nd Ed models to new models is like comparing an SNES to a Wii. I will 100% admit today that the SNES has pretty horrible graphics. But when it came out my eyeballs were bleeding from that awesome 16 bit goodness.

Somebody should show up at a tournament with the 2nd ed cardboard Ork Dreadnought. "It's a Citatel Minature, it's legal!"

I love loads of the old RT era sculpts, the 25mm sculpts did seem to be more in proportion than the newer 28+mm ones.

I like a lot of GW's current sculpts too.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Cable wrote:I like both era's of minis! Tough to find old ones though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:Well, perhaps I took umbrage rather hastily.

All has ended well, at any rate.

Let's celebrate with a drink!

Why stop at one?

That looks suspiciously like a PBR?

It was a Heineken, at a hotel in Bunol, Spain, at about four in the morning before the annual Tomatina festival.

I swore off Heiniken after tasting the likes of Dab, Spaaten, Hoffbrau and a variety of other great German brews!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Didn't mean to hijack thread.............just thirsty!

d-usa wrote:

Somebody should show up at a tournament with the 2nd ed cardboard Ork Dreadnought. "It's a Citatel Minature, it's legal!"

This. This is full of win. If anyone here plays orks and reads this thread, do it. Tape the responses. It should be a topic of its own.

Hey don't mock it! I would put money on that cardboard dreadnought killing more marines than every other orc dreadnought combined

Who's mocking it? I think it's an absolutely splendid idea!

But no doubt the same thing will happen in 20 years (if we are fortunate to still have a company, and it hasn't been bought out by Bandai) and those people who come into the hobby at that time will laugh at the slightly ridiculous but charming design ethos of the models produced nowadays

One can only imagine what they'll be doing with the models by then. Maybe they'll even have anamatronic [sp?] bits to them, moving around going where we direct them in a set way.

Add it to those card counters cut out the back of the RT book. Then see who benefits from true line of sight.

The old models did have character, although with character you take the good with the bad. Even people that love the old stuff don't love it all. I have a huge collection of RT and 2nd ed era Edlar, but I think the old Orks are simply terrible.

I'm torn. I like both the old and the new models.

Love these Orks (my first 40K army), and I am seriously considering painting some of them that have been lying in a drawer for 22 years.




...but I play Cadian IG now because I love their plastic models and the metal Kasrkin. The new plastic superheavies are great too!




The good news for me is that I really don't have to choose. I still have lots of OOP minis to paint as well as the new ones. At this rate, I won't live long enough to get them all done even if I stopped buying minis now.