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asimo77 wrote:

Melissia wrote:Wow.

That's incredibly arrogant, pompous, and dickish.

Seriously... saying you are better than someone else just because you have a different taste in games?

Geeze. I don't even do that when I insult blizzard.

Wait wut? If you're referencing Grakmar, it really seemed like a harmless joke (with a dose of the truth)

Theres really very little objective truth to any of it. The CoD games are incredibly high development value, well rated, and very popular games. It behoves the "in crowd" of gamers to hate the big franchises, but frankly outside of Killzone, Halo, and CoDs bi yearly sequels the ice that the console FPS fan skates on is very thin. There simply isn't much quality outside of those titles to be found. It's not particularly better on the PC side where franchises like Battlefield and Left4Dead perform the same trick. I can understand the hipster gamers hatred of popular franchises, but that doesn't mean they get to exist outside of objective review, and threads like this are a bit sad.

Melissia wrote:Wow.

That's incredibly arrogant, pompous, and dickish.

Seriously... saying you are better than someone else just because you have a different taste in games?

Geeze. I don't even do that when I insult blizzard.

I by no means meant that I'm better than anyone else.

(With the exception of those 12 year old kids you find online screaming profanities and racial slurs at the top of their lungs while they "teabag" your corpse. I'm way better than those kids. At least for now. In fifteen years or so, they'll all have grown up and matured and will be just as annoyed by the new group of kids doing the same thing. And, I'll have a bad back and be raising my own little screaming hellions. I'll be trying to be a good parent, but life is just overwhelming sometimes and kids those days just don't listen. They don't have respect for their elders. Plus, these new-fangled VR machine confuse me! Just the other day, Rupert Murdoch's head-in-a-jar warned me about a communist conspiracy to use VR to take over my kids' brains! I know that that's a dumb idea, but it does frighten me. I should really supervise my kids and make sure they're behaving appropriately. But, that's too much work. I'll just sit here watching Fox News all the time...)

Sorry, that aside really started to ramble by the end.

Anyway, back to my original point. I don't think I'm better than anyone (exception: see above).

I do think that Activision has become overly focused on spitting out the same game over and over again. It's made me hate them, hate their games, and hope their company goes out of business.

The early games in the CoD and Guitar Hero are classics. They are games that will be looked back on with pride. You'll find a post on some forum a decade or two from now about Guitar Hero, or CoD 2 and think "Wow! That game is amazing! I should go find an old copy!" It's the fact that they get re-released over and over with a minimal amount of polish that bothers me. They seem to be more fan mods than actual new releases.

I think that there is a younger generation of gamers that has grown up in the golden age of FPS. It started quite a while ago, and has quite the impressive run. But, I think the genre is getting stale. I've grown tired of cookie-cutter FPS. The market needs to (and I believe will) stop buying so many repetitive franchise games.

These younger gamers don't deserve any blame (apart from immaturity, which we all had to suffer). They grew up in an age when FPS games were some of the best games on the market. You can't blame them for enjoying the best games.

But, it's come time in which we all need to raise our expectations. We need to stop throwing down $60 on games we've all played a dozen times. We need to stand up and say: "You can have my money. But, you have to give me something worth it."

I do think that Activision has become overly focused on spitting out the same game over and over again. It's made me hate them, hate their games, and hope their company goes out of business.

Have become? Where were you when they were doing it to the tony hawk franchise on the playstation one? Thats the nature of popular sequential titles, it's how it's always worked. Does it piss you off that theres a new final fantasy every 24 months?

The early games in the CoD and Guitar Hero are classics. They are games that will be looked back on with pride. You'll find a post on some forum a decade or two from now about Guitar Hero, or CoD 2 and think "Wow! That game is amazing! I should go find an old copy!" It's the fact that they get re-released over and over with a minimal amount of polish that bothers me.

Modern warfare was the best call of duty they had ever put out. By a huge margin. It sold better, was better rated, is better remembered, and had a much bigger impact on the industry then any previous CoD title.

It's the fact that they get re-released over and over with a minimal amount of polish that bothers me.

I think you're truly unaware of the amount of money and polish that actually goes into the CoD franchise at this point.

They seem to be more fan mods than actual new releases.

That doesn't even make sense.

I think that there is a younger generation of gamers that has grown up in the golden age of FPS. It started quite a while ago, and has quite the impressive run. But, I think the genre is getting stale. I've grown tired of cookie-cutter FPS. The market needs to (and I believe will) stop buying so many repetitive franchise games.

The golden age? You mean when it was the metal corridor crawler age of Doom and Quale (puke)? The "everything is a mod of half life" age of half life, counterstrike and team fortress (still going)? The "Look i have physics!" age of half life 2? What golden age?

You sure you just don't live in an ivory tower and got beaten too much playing MW2?

These younger gamers don't deserve any blame (apart from immaturity, which we all had to suffer). They grew up in an age when FPS games were some of the best games on the market. You can't blame them for enjoying the best games.

The only time when FPS games were the "best on the market" was the month immediately following half life one and the release of halo 1. Maybe modern warfare 1. Maybe. Unless you're talking about wolfenstein or something, in which case you should probably stop.

But, it's come time in which we all need to raise our expectations. We need to stop throwing down $60 on games we've all played a dozen times. We need to stand up and say: "You can have my money. But, you have to give me something worth it."

And yet I bet for the life of you you're unable to actually state what that is or what is repetitive in current games.

For myself, the problem I have is that every main character for these games is a generic military (or ex-military) white boy, usually with interchangeable personalities (if they had any).

But that's pretty much always been the case for American games.

Melissia wrote:For myself, the problem I have is that every main character for these games is a generic military (or ex-military) white boy, usually with interchangeable personalities (if they had any).

But that's pretty much always been the case for American games.

You mean the protagonist of a shooting game might feature someone with vague military training? A shooting game where the protagonist is military! Novel! There have been a fair number without that trope, though most good ones are valve games. As for the race, thats primarily a marketing decision, though isn't the crysis guy latino or something? In fairness the military white guy has been a trop since the very first FPS and the major market for these games is caucasian.

CoD seems annualized but in truth the developer behind them has two years to develop the game. I think it would be almost safe to say that Modern Warfare and Black Ops are almost two different franchises under the Call of Duty name.

As far as their being too many of them, I don't think there are.

Sports games have been cited, but the number of Mario games is plain ridiculous even if you don't include anything before the Wii.

New Super Mario Brothers, Mario Galaxy, Mario Galaxy 2, Mario Super Sluggers, Mario Party 8(yes there have been eight mario parties in total), Mario Kart, etc.

Mario has been overdone and so has Sonic.

I would like to see how CoD does a futuristic game although I see a Battlefield 2142 without vehicles and with better graphics as the result.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Melissia wrote:For myself, the problem I have is that every main character for these games is a generic military (or ex-military) white boy, usually with interchangeable personalities (if they had any).

But that's pretty much always been the case for American games.

You mean the protagonist of a shooting game might feature someone with vague military training? A shooting game where the protagonist is military! Novel! There have been a fair number without that trope, though most good ones are valve games. As for the race, thats primarily a marketing decision, though isn't the crysis guy latino or something? In fairness the military white guy has been a trop since the very first FPS and the major market for these games is caucasian.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Melissia wrote:For myself, the problem I have is that every main character for these games is a generic military (or ex-military) white boy, usually with interchangeable personalities (if they had any).

But that's pretty much always been the case for American games.

You mean the protagonist of a shooting game might feature someone with vague military training? A shooting game where the protagonist is military! Novel! There have been a fair number without that trope, though most good ones are valve games. As for the race, thats primarily a marketing decision, though isn't the crysis guy latino or something? In fairness the military white guy has been a trop since the very first FPS and the major market for these games is caucasian.

And yet, they are. How many good FPS games have you seen with playable female characters in single player... or for that matter, multiplayer? Or playable Black, Oriental, Native American, Hispanic, Middle-Eastern characters...

Yes, it's a marketing decision, that doesn't make my complaint any less valid.

Melissia wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Melissia wrote:For myself, the problem I have is that every main character for these games is a generic military (or ex-military) white boy, usually with interchangeable personalities (if they had any).

But that's pretty much always been the case for American games.

You mean the protagonist of a shooting game might feature someone with vague military training? A shooting game where the protagonist is military! Novel! There have been a fair number without that trope, though most good ones are valve games. As for the race, thats primarily a marketing decision, though isn't the crysis guy latino or something? In fairness the military white guy has been a trop since the very first FPS and the major market for these games is caucasian.

And yet, they are. How many good FPS games have you seen with playable female characters in single player... or for that matter, multiplayer? Or playable Black, Oriental, Native American, Hispanic, Middle-Eastern characters...

Yes, it's a marketing decision, that doesn't make my complaint any less valid.

But your complaint isn't an issue with the game perse so much as an issue with western media economics in general. How many RTS games feature black protagonists? Platformers? Etc?

Shuma, melissia likes to complain about the lack of females and minorities in games. You can't beat her there trust me.

Well looks like this thread just got serious

Be misogynistically dismissive as is your wont, halonachos, but it is still a valid complaint from customer to game provider.

ShumaGorath wrote:But your complaint isn't an issue with the game perse so much as an issue with western media economics in general.

In the end, the result is the same.

A valid complaint from a minority of the consumer base. Be as unrealistic as you want Melissia, but female minorities are not a large consumer base for FPS games.

ESA stats:

•68 percent of American households play computer or video games.
•The average age of game players is 35 years old.

•25 percent of game players are under 18 years of age, 49 percent are 18 to 49 and 26 percent are 50+ years old.
•60 percent of game players are male. However, women age 18 or older represent 34 percent of the game-playing population -- much more than boys 17 or younger, who constitute 18 percent.
•The average age of the most frequent game buyer is 39 years old.
•48 percent of game purchasers are female.
•12 is the average number of years adult gamers have been playing video games.
•62 percent of gamers play games with others in person. This is an increase from 59 percent in 2008 and from 56 percent in 2007.
•42 percent of homes in America have a video game console.

So 60% of game players are male while 48% of all games are bought by females. Does this mean that female gamers dominate 48% of the market, no. It means that 52% of all games are bought by males for their own enjoyment while another 8% of games are bought by females for a male player perhaps(moms or GFs buying gifts) although we can skew the numbers so that 34% of males buy games for their GFs or other female relations, the facts show that males tend to play games more than females.

I'm not being a mysogynist, I'm being realisticly grounded in demographics and statistics.

So have fun calling other people names because you feel inadequately represented in videogames, I'll laugh it off while I contribute to the 60% of my sex playing games and the 52% of my sex purchasing games.

You started off well, then you pulled statistics out of nowheree afterwards. Stick with actual proven statistics instead.

Just because a demographic is less than fifty percent (and yet, still only slightly less) does not mean that they should be completely ignored.

[edit: grr, can't type very well with my kitten constantly attacking my fingers...]

Gender: It's srs bizniz in videogames

Damn I should've made that into one of those newfangled motivational posters that the kids these days are always posting on the bingo hall's website!

metallifan wrote:Gender: It's srs bizniz in videogames

And IRL, too. If only it weren't, but it is.

That was sarcasm. You can't expect me (or, well, most people on the interwebs) to care about gender roles in video games. I'm certainly not spending my time playing a game thinking "This character should really be more in touch with his sensitive side" or "Why are there no female NPCs in this part?" or "Aw man, I don't wanna play a girl in THIS game!"

Oh, I know.

Melissia wrote:You started off well, then you pulled statistics out of your ass afterwards. Stick with actual proven statistics instead.

Just because a demographic is less than fifty percent (and yet, still only slightly less) does not mean that they should be completely ignored.

You serious bro?

I can't tell if you're the first female troll I've ever meant or seriously saying that.

Just saying, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

There's no law that says a company -can't- make -all- their games have female main characters. In fact, I'm sure such a company might even have a really big boost in getting more women to play games. But is such a company necessary?

Short answer: No.

Again, most people aren't actually sitting there, refusing to play a game because it has no female characters, or filtering out games because they don't do enough to represent women, etc...

Games are -just games-. That's it. They're not political issues unless people go out and find reasons to -make- them political issues. And those folks usually just need something to complain about because of some very, very deep underlying personal issues.

metallifan wrote:Just saying, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

There's no law that says a company -can't- make -all- their games have female characters. In fact, I'm sure such a company might even have a really big boost in getting more women to play games. But is such a company necessary?

Games themselves aren't necessary. But why does that mean that I should just be quiet, stop talking about it, and accept it?

I won't regardless of the reason why, but it seems peculiar how so many male gamers seem to expect me to do just that. To me, it is broken. So it needs to be fixed.

metallifan wrote:
Games are -just games-. That's it. They're not political issues unless people go out and find reasons to -make- them political issues. And those folks usually just need something to complain about because of some very, very deep underlying personal issues.

Ouch, that sounds like a melta burn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:I won't regardless of the reason why, but it seems peculiar how so many male gamers seem to expect me to do just that.

Because guys don't care? Remember your feminist training, guys are simple. We play games and has the fun while not care about story, hurr.

There's no "deep psychological issues", I just want to play as myself for once. I hardly think that is unreasonable.

Melissia wrote:There's no "deep psychological issues", I just want to play as myself for once. I hardly think that is unreasonable.

Call Activision and have them make "Melissia: Male Protagonist Destroyer" then, sheesh.

Melissia wrote:

metallifan wrote:Gender: It's srs bizniz in videogames

And IRL, too. If only it weren't, but it is.

Don't blame the industry, the industry exists to serve the demographic customers it has, not attempt to cultivate new ones at cost and with questionable results. If more females played games that were oriented towards male audiences (action titles, shooters, etc) then they would orient such games more towards female demographics. They don't however, so they don't stand to profit from being inclusive. Its a for profit industry, not a social project. You want more mirrors edge games then try and make mirrors edge not be a sales failure. If you want less call of duties then don't buy the call of duties (I didn't buy World at war or black ops because I dislike both games directions).

Thats about all there is to the story. The industry isn't sexist, it's just not a charity.

I think there's a point where incessant complaining gets tiring, but there's also a point where the constant shutdown of female opinions becomes even sadder and dare I say borderline misogynistic?

At some point some you guys should take a step back and tone down the wimminz hate. Maybe it isn't apparent in this topic but it's an alarming trend We're all grown ups right? Can't we get past the "eww she has cooties!" stage and be a bit more egalitarian? Of course there needs to be some sort of moderation on the other side so that legitamate complaints don't devolve into whiny soap-boxing.

In summation everyone keep it real, cool your jets, and don't be so afraid of feminism.

asimo77 wrote:I think there's a point where incessant complaining gets tiring, but there's also a point where the constant shutdown of female opinions becomes even sadder and dare I say borderline misogynistic?

At some point some you guys should take a step back and tone down the wimminz hate. Maybe it isn't apparent in this topic but it's an alarming trend We're all grown ups right? Can't we get past the "eww she has cooties!" stage and be a bit more egalitarian? Of course there needs to be some sort of moderation on the other side so that legitamate complaints don't devolve into whiny soap-boxing.

In summation everyone keep it real, cool your jets, and don't be so afraid of feminism.

Please note who you're speaking of when posting posts like that.

Oh I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, it's just every now and then a "women in games" topic pops up and there's always some disheartening things here and there.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Melissia wrote:

metallifan wrote:Gender: It's srs bizniz in videogames

And IRL, too. If only it weren't, but it is.

Don't blame the industry, the industry exists to serve the demographic customers it has

And it's failing.

The industry HAS female customers. A sizable portion of them. And it isn't serving them very well.

Melissia wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Melissia wrote:

metallifan wrote:Gender: It's srs bizniz in videogames

And IRL, too. If only it weren't, but it is.

Don't blame the industry, the industry exists to serve the demographic customers it has

And it's failing.

The industry HAS female customers. A sizable portion of them. And it isn't serving them very well.

It's the largest media industry that exists and it's rapidly growing. It's not failing, you just wish it was. That sizeable portion is being served to with nintendogs, angry birds, bejeweled and world of warcraft. You're mixing demographics around and applying them to titles you like, not titles that actually have a statistically meaningful female following.

The industry growing and yet still not fulfilling its customer's desires are not mutually exclusive.