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Shenra wrote:
Daemons:

Crushers and fiends obvious choices, but my vote goes to the Daemon Prince as probably the most versatile unit in the game.

Worst: Skarbrand. I know, everyone's like what??? But come on...giving your enemy re-rolls to hit in CC??? Especially a Khrone Greater Daemon...Khorne usually have a better weapon skill than their opponents, so the reroll benefits the enemy more than the home team.

Skarbrand is actually pretty good IMO, esp when my big blocks of Daemonettes charge the enemy. More hits= more rends and already with high number of attacks its all good. plus its a bloodthirster, and thats always a good thing!

Plus aside from Plague bearers, what Daemon unit do you expect to loose and actually STAY in combat? You either win in one assault or proceed to die horribly, and with I6+ slaneesh units and FC Khorne stuff, even Meq squads should be wiped in one go if you manage to keep enough numbers up from shooting the round before.

Imperial Guard: Best unit- Marbo. 65 points I NEVER regret.

Worst unit- ergh, rough riders. I want to like them, but man they suck!

IG:

Best: Veterans - inexpensive, multiple special weapon options, variety of transports, can be equipped with interesting and flavourful doctrines

Runner-up: CCS - cheap, lots of versatility, excellent advisors, brilliant orders

Third place: Leman Russ - tons of variants, inexpensive yet deadly for the base model.

Worst: Conscripts - becuase...well...they are just utter junk. No weapon options, rubbish BS, rubbish WS, rubbish Ld, need a dedicated HQ to stop them running, need a platoon AND a special character to get without number and just...yeah, utter gak.

L. Wrex

My (personal, not metagame) tau picks:

Favourite = Farsight and retinue (watching them demolish half a nid army in shooting and then combat was comical, as well as one volleying trygons).

Least favourite = Rail rifle pathfinders (not using ethereals, pope, vespid, etc so no experience with them so I won't comment, out of them though none of them even are allowed due to farsight).

While I'm close to agreeing on the OPs best for Nids, Pyrovore is not nearly the worst unit. Parasite has that honor, nothing like generating 5 or 6 free KP for your opponent.

Tau Empire:
Best- Crisis Battlesuits - Flexible weapons and JSJ makes them the mainstay of most Tau lists.

Worst- Ethereal Caste- Paying to give your enemy a chance to make your army run away? Oh boy...

Eldar:
Best- Fire Dragons- Best Melta Squad in the game, guaranteed to kill any vehicle most of the time.

Worst- Swooping Hawks- Man they suck. It's a shame, because the models are so cool.

Dark Angels:
Best- Belial, Master of the Deathwing- A 130 Point Captain in Terminator armor that happens to make Terminators scoring? Yeah, that's awesome.

Worst- Assault Squad- Costs as much as Vanguard vets without any of the benefits. Just such a horrible pile of failure.

And if you play a battle that does not count kill points, then what? I am not fond of him either, but I want to try him in a squad of shrikers or gargoyles and see what he can do.

Runner-up for worst: Old One Eye. This guy has no shooting weapon whatsoever?

The pyrovore is a big piece of crap. I can not imagine what may be worse. Especially in an elite slot.

Requia wrote:While I'm close to agreeing on the OPs best for Nids, Pyrovore is not nearly the worst unit. Parasite has that honor, nothing like generating 5 or 6 free KP for your opponent.

Ailaros wrote:I'm going to agree that for guard the best is infantry platoons, though a very honorable mention goes to the CCS. Lots of options, meta-bending advisers, bufftastic orders. Hell of a thing.

As for worst, I'm going for techpriest. Because... seriously...

I completely agree..the humble platoon is extremely flexible..and has the option to take Capt' Al.....

And platoons are much more characterful than the much maligned mechvet army....am sick and tired of the mechvet list being equated to be the "ultimate" IG build....

The other "best choice" for the IG...the chimera transport..as it is a true IFV (Infantry fighting vehicle) where both the transport and passengers get to fight (shoot) well.

Worst for me? Besides the techpriest I find conscripts a very poor choice. The 4th ed conscript was much better.....

For my eldar, I find the best choices to be the fire dragons, as well as the farseer and seer council as a unit.

Worst? Hmmm, shining spears and swooping hawks..not really because they are useless (they are not, they have their functions), but rather they are overcosted for what they can do.

Witchhunters? The best would be the Exorcists, as well as mounted battle sisters with the book of st lucius.

Worst? The esoteric WH stuff, like the arcoflagellant and the sisters repentia..if they could be mounted then they would be much better. Otherwise they are overcosted fire magnets who have a poor save....feel no pain would make them feel and act more like the deranged nutters they really are....

Necrons? Best is the Monolith..nuff said.....

Worst? Pariah's, as they are not necrons and thus will not get back up.

Kinda surprised at all the conscript hate, actually. They have two roles, both of which they can do pretty well: meat shield, and armywide 4+ cover save for a turn or 2.

Yes, you could always take more infantry squads instead, but really look at that. Do you take infantry squads with NO upgrades? In all likelihood, you're spending at LEAST 160 points on a pair of infantry squads, and now you're looking at something that's twice as expensive.

If you're taking a throwaway unit, it doesn't MATTER how good it is at things like shooting or assault. When you throw away the reasons to dislike conscripts that don't actually matter, the conscripts definitely aren't the WORST unit in the codex.

I mean, they're at LEAST above ratlings...

Tau

Best - Crisis Suits
2nd Best - Broadsides

Worst - The Space Pope/Etherial
2nd Worst - Stealth Suits/Vespids

Skyrays can be used well... despite what many think.

Ailaros wrote:Kinda surprised at all the conscript hate, actually. They have two roles, both of which they can do pretty well: meat shield, and armywide 4+ cover save for a turn or 2.

Yes, you could always take more infantry squads instead, but really look at that. Do you take infantry squads with NO upgrades? In all likelihood, you're spending at LEAST 160 points on a pair of infantry squads, and now you're looking at something that's twice as expensive.

If you're taking a throwaway unit, it doesn't MATTER how good it is at things like shooting or assault. When you throw away the reasons to dislike conscripts that don't actually matter, the conscripts definitely aren't the WORST unit in the codex.

I mean, they're at LEAST above ratlings...

Ah the ratlings have DEFINITE uses....I have been using them poorly though I admit...but the ratlings for me I would take over conscripts....

An infantry squad with a flamer....55 pts.....and as mobile cover and meat shield I will prefer to have 2 squads separate rather than lumped together....this is theoretical of course and in direct comparison to conscripts, since in reality if I want cover and a meat shield I will deploy 1 or 2 of my regular squads (with GL and AC) "up front" ahead of the others....and the enemy has to contend also with my mobile component composed of mounted PCS and SWS in the middle of the field before they even reach those frontline squads...

bucheonman wrote:And if you play a battle that does not count kill points, then what? I am not fond of him either, but I want to try him in a squad of shrikers or gargoyles and see what he can do.

Runner-up for worst: Old One Eye. This guy has no shooting weapon whatsoever?

The pyrovore is a big piece of crap. I can not imagine what may be worse. Especially in an elite slot.

Parasite is pretty awesome outside of KP missions, but unless you can get the people you play with to agree otherwise, you'll spend 1/3rd of the games he's in your army sticking him in reserve so that he doesn't accidentally kill something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ratlings are dirt cheap long range poison, hardly useless, but a bit specialized.

Ratlings hit on 3's, wound on 4's, and don't ignore armor. 9 ratlings cost the same as a 3ML HWS, and the missile launchers will do nearly the same damage against the ratling's juiciest targets.

Except the missile launcher is also good against vehicles, light infantry, and can inflict instant death while ignoring FNP...

Ratlings are pretty crap. The reason I'd rank them near the bottom is that the ONLY purpose of ratlings is to sit around and do damage, which they do very poorly. Meanwhile, if conscripts don't do much damage, that's plenty fine if they claim an obejctive or give some squads a 4+ cover save or eat a turn of assault from something big and scary and let you shoot at it the next turn at close range.

Ailaros wrote:Ratlings hit on 3's, wound on 4's, and don't ignore armor. 9 ratlings cost the same as a 3ML HWS, and the missile launchers will do nearly the same damage against the ratling's juiciest targets.

Except the missile launcher is also good against vehicles, light infantry, and can inflict instant death while ignoring FNP...

Ratlings are pretty crap. The reason I'd rank them near the bottom is that the ONLY purpose of ratlings is to sit around and do damage, which they do very poorly. Meanwhile, if conscripts don't do much damage, that's plenty fine if they claim an obejctive or give some squads a 4+ cover save or eat a turn of assault from something big and scary and let you shoot at it the next turn at close range.

Ah ratlings are cuter than conscripts..nuff said..hahahahaha!!!

You can also only take HWS with a platoon, and they die at the drop of a hat.

CSM:
Best - Much as I love DPs, I'm gonna hafta go with Oblits on this one. Drop em in close and watch them blast everything around them into oblivion. So yummy.

Worst - Spawn. No question.

Daemons:
Best - Crushers narrowly edge out fiends here for me. Fiends just don't have the staying power to survive any length of time against an opponent who's been eaten by them once.

Worst - Furies? I can honestly think of no reason whatseover to field them. Heck, most of the time I forget they're even in the codex.

CSM:
Best - One I don't think people have mentioned: Termicide Squads. Deep striking squads that slag vehicles, burn infantry, and then draw firepower? Oh and they're super cheap too.

Worst: Probably spawn.

Eldar have no true 'best' as they are all good at one thing and lousy to mediocre (at best) at doing anything else. Some will say fire dragons, but this is only because there are so many mech armies. They are a complete waste against hordes though, and die just as quickly as any Eldar and absolutely need a transport that costs more than they do - so, sorry dragons, your transport is more valuable than you are.

speaking of which:
Probably the Wave Serpent is the best all around as any army can benefit any combo of Eldar in some way or another. Even when not transporting, they are a tough kill for a transport, and have heavy enough firepower to fight by themselves.

Worst is Guardians. squishy low statline having crap that dies if breathed on the wrong way, costs way too many points, runs easily unless buddied up to an expensive warlock, and has no range worth even bothering with.

Ratlings for the win!

Ever suffer from fear the Wraithlord or Deceiver ruining your warhammer game? Tired of firing missiles only to see them miss or fail to wound? Then fear no longer with Ratling 2000. Ratling 2000 works by bringing dedicated anti MC firepower, which in turn frees up your anti tank weapons to do what they were meant to. Not fighting Monstrous creatures? No problem, Ratling 2000 can also effectively pin enemy infantry buying precious time for your guardsmen to destroy them. All of this for the low low price of 100 points. Ratling 2000 buy it today!

IG:

Best - Vendetta. I can't see running a list without two anytime in the near future.

Worst - Techpriest. I've contrived ways for every unit in the codex to be useful, including Ratlings, Mogul Kamir, and Conscripts. Never have I considered using a Techpriest for more than ten seconds. You never know when or where you vehicles are going to break down (or if, if you're lucky), so you can't really keep them in the best position. The only thing they add is servitors with Plasma Cannons or Multi-Meltas. Yeah, two BS 3 Multi-Meltas for 135 points. wooo.

BTW, rage doesn't have any effect on what you assault, only on movement, running, and consolidation. So you can use the 12" assault of Rough Riders to take out units other than the closest. Mogul Kamir isn't *quite* worthless.

Darien13 wrote:CSM:
Best - One I don't think people have mentioned: Termicide Squads. Deep striking squads that slag vehicles, burn infantry, and then draw firepower? Oh and they're super cheap too.

Worst: Probably spawn.

What exactly is a termicide squad?

Requia wrote:

Darien13 wrote:CSM:
Best - One I don't think people have mentioned: Termicide Squads. Deep striking squads that slag vehicles, burn infantry, and then draw firepower? Oh and they're super cheap too.

Worst: Probably spawn.

What exactly is a termicide squad?

3 terminitors, usually armed with combi-meltas and perhaps a heavy flamer and/or chainfist. Relatively cheap, they just deep strike in and try to blow up a tank or two before getting mulched.

I'm surprised at all the rough rider hate. I find that with the speed that they bring that they almost always get to a decent target. They may not be a stellar unit but what are you expecting from them? They are very economical points wise and make a wonderful little shock unit. Yes they take up a fast attack slot but the fact that there are so many great FA choices doesn't make them bad. The only thing truly bad about them is the models GW has for them.

Also My outlook on kamir isn't totally based on that he has rage. Its also that he gives them Furious charge (which doesn't work) and fearless and I'm not sure I want either of those on my fragile horses.

Cheers,
~Volkan

Ailaros wrote:Kinda surprised at all the conscript hate, actually. They have two roles, both of which they can do pretty well: meat shield, and armywide 4+ cover save for a turn or 2.

A role that is fulfilled even better by PIS.

Ailaros wrote:Yes, you could always take more infantry squads instead, but really look at that. Do you take infantry squads with NO upgrades? In all likelihood, you're spending at LEAST 160 points on a pair of infantry squads, and now you're looking at something that's twice as expensive.

But is also 4 x as useful. I've also never spent 80pts per PIS.

Ailaros wrote:If you're taking a throwaway unit, it doesn't MATTER how good it is at things like shooting or assault. When you throw away the reasons to dislike conscripts that don't actually matter, the conscripts definitely aren't the WORST unit in the codex.

But why take a throwaway unit in the first place? Cover is prevelant all-round in 5th, so the purpose to act as a 4+ cover save is kind of useless, and they are rubbish as a meat shield as they will run away the second they lose 25% of their model count, unless you purposefully spend points on a LC or Chenkov. This would be fine, except now you are paying even more points to make a terrible unit only slightly less rubbish.

L. Wrex


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ElCheezus wrote:BTW, rage doesn't have any effect on what you assault, only on movement, running, and consolidation. So you can use the 12" assault of Rough Riders to take out units other than the closest. Mogul Kamir isn't *quite* worthless.

Kamir's FC doesn't stack with either the hunting lances or the frag/krak grenades that come with RR as standard, so he gives no tangible benefit whatsoever to the unit on the first turn of charging vs infantry, and no tangible benefit any subsequent turns of charging against vehicles. If you regularly come across foot-slogging T3 armies then maybe maybe the FC boost could be put to use. Except then you realise you could have bought four more RR for the same price as including Kamir. He's junk. Worst special character in the game.

L. Wrex

ElCheezus wrote:IG:

Best - Vendetta. I can't see running a list without two anytime in the near future.

Worst - Techpriest. I've contrived ways for every unit in the codex to be useful, including Ratlings, Mogul Kamir, and Conscripts. Never have I considered using a Techpriest for more than ten seconds. You never know when or where you vehicles are going to break down (or if, if you're lucky), so you can't really keep them in the best position. The only thing they add is servitors with Plasma Cannons or Multi-Meltas. Yeah, two BS 3 Multi-Meltas for 135 points. wooo.

BTW, rage doesn't have any effect on what you assault, only on movement, running, and consolidation. So you can use the 12" assault of Rough Riders to take out units other than the closest. Mogul Kamir isn't *quite* worthless.

For me, the vendetta/valk is the BEST looking unit in the IG list...efficient yes, but the best unit/choice in the dex no..I have run successful lists without a single skimmer at all...

The chimera borne units are more useful/functional than a vendetta and its passengers, for the reason that the former can both fight, and versus different targets too. These days I find that the outflanking platoon of Capt. Al (especially if it has mounted elements) a much more effective option than even a couple of vendettas. In addition, the tank busting role of vendettas can be assumed by other elements of the IG army (medusas, manticores etc.), while no other unit can do what the chimera does, ands that is to be an excellent IFV which also allows its passengers to fight.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:Kamir's FC doesn't stack with either the hunting lances or the frag/krak grenades that come with RR as standard, so he gives no tangible benefit whatsoever to the unit on the first turn of charging vs infantry, and no tangible benefit any subsequent turns of charging against vehicles. If you regularly come across foot-slogging T3 armies then maybe maybe the FC boost could be put to use. Except then you realise you could have bought four more RR for the same price as including Kamir. He's junk. Worst special character in the game.

L. Wrex

One of the biggest complaints about Rough Riders is that they're one-use, and Kamir helps with that. Hitting on initiative with marines and wounding on 4s instead of 5s is a huge difference. I would only run max squads of RRs, so no, I couldn't buy more with his points. Is he amazing? No. But I can see a place for him in a foot list, mainly used to apply more damage to units that are already locked in combat, to fix a tarpit.

Whether or not he's good, he's better than techpriests.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:Eldar Best: Fire dragons. The only melta unit in the army besides some characters, and the best melta carriers in the game.
Eldar Worst: Swooping Hawks? Several "strong" contenders here.

... got to say that I've done fairly well with a 5 man unit of these guys; they've take a knock in 5th but i don't think they're the worst. They give you one large blast and can normally cripple a vehicle.

The prise worst choice would have to go to guardian defenders; expensive, weak shooting and combat ... about the only thing they have going for them is a move and shoot weapons platform.

Still have to agree with every one on best, FD's for the win.

SM: Best choice vulkan. Worst Land-speeder storm; like a LS but not as good. If it could be taken in squadrons or as dedicated transport but as a it is it sucks.

Daemonhunters

Best-Brother Captain Stern

Worst-Daemonhost

For IG, the techpriest is pretty clearly the worst for me. It seems to do very little, even in it's best case scenario.

Riders, conscripts, and ratlings all have moments where they shine. Techpriests seem to lack that.

As for the best, I'd say Veterans. They do what they do cheaper than nearly anything else in the game.

Chaos Lord Gir wrote:

Shenra wrote:
Daemons:

Crushers and fiends obvious choices, but my vote goes to the Daemon Prince as probably the most versatile unit in the game.

Worst: Skarbrand. I know, everyone's like what??? But come on...giving your enemy re-rolls to hit in CC??? Especially a Khrone Greater Daemon...Khorne usually have a better weapon skill than their opponents, so the reroll benefits the enemy more than the home team.

Skarbrand is actually pretty good IMO, esp when my big blocks of Daemonettes charge the enemy. More hits= more rends and already with high number of attacks its all good. plus its a bloodthirster, and thats always a good thing!

Plus aside from Plague bearers, what Daemon unit do you expect to loose and actually STAY in combat? You either win in one assault or proceed to die horribly, and with I6+ slaneesh units and FC Khorne stuff, even Meq squads should be wiped in one go if you manage to keep enough numbers up from shooting the round before.

Imperial Guard: Best unit- Marbo. 65 points I NEVER regret.

Worst unit- ergh, rough riders. I want to like them, but man they suck!

Actually Skarbrand not a bloodthirster...he has no wings. That's why I prefer the bloodthirster...that flight on him makes him scary.....er.

Eldar.

Best: A few possibilities. A Farseer is always a welcome choice and can find a roll in any build. I really do like Fire Dragons, but they usually seen to die after popping one thing, so that rules them out for the best unit IMO. I may have to go with war walkers, simply because of how cheap they are and how many shots they can throw out.

Worst: Well heres alot of choice... Shining spears are pretty bad, but at least they kill one unit before they die so my vote goes to the Hawks. The only good experiances i've had with them is in small games and big games. By small games i mean 500-1000 points against armies like orks, where they can simply stay out of assault range, stay out of LOS of ranged shooting and pour on the fire into a doomed unit to help out a little. In large games, I'm talking Apocolypse when you take skyleap and every turn drop grenades onto hordes of tightly packed guardsman. In a normal game? I'll pass on them.