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I could see a Techpriest with a small army of servitors being useful in Apoc games. Just have him walking behind a Titan or Baneblade or whateve, and each turn have him fix up a weapon or leg that you really REALLY would prefer to have working.

But yeah, I used to have a Techpriest. He's just not worth it. Maybe if the gun you repaired could fire the turn you repaired it, it'd have SOME usefullness. I do like the model though.

Interesting comments on Eldar.

I'm going to have to disagree with Fire Dragons being the best. They work incredibly well in a mech force. But, they die long before they can get to their target in a foot slogging army. They also lose all usefulness against a pure horde army of all light infantry (not that you see that very often). Don't get me wrong, they're an excellent unit, but not the best.

The best has to go to a Farseer. Great in a mech army. Great in a foot army. Great if you're running Alaitoc rangers. Great if you're running all wraith Iyanden. They're simply amazing in any Eldar force you can come up with. They'd also work amazingly well in every other army.

The worst is clearly Baharroth. 200pts for a model without much firepower, not particularly good in assaults, and no invul save with only T4. Swooping Hawks (his aspect) get the nod if special characters aren't included.

Guardians are also a close worst. But, if backed up by an Avatar, they can be a decent unit.

Tyranids

Best: There are several units that I think could equally fit in this slot, but having to pick one, I'd say Gargoyles. Super cheap models, super cheap and effective upgrades, they can fit well in almost any list, and with the proper units synergizing with them, they become more scary than genestealers.

Worst: Again, there are a few units that could get this "honor" but I gotta go with the Pyrovore. It's rules and stats completely clash with each other, most of it's rules only come into play when it's getting the crap kicked out of it, and to top it off it competes for one of the golden elite slots.


Necrons

Best: I think the Necron lord is probably the best unit as no matter how you build your army, it's often the lynch pin that holds it together. You can outfit them for almost any role, and they aren't incredibly expensive for what you get.

Worst: Pariahs stand out as the single really poor choice these days. When running a phalanx was still farily viable, they had a place. Now however, they are too slow, too fragile, too expensive, and lack the punch to make up for the other three faults. It wouldn't take much to make them great, but as they stand, they will never see the light of day in any of my lists with the current meta.

Imperial Guard

Best: Personally, as much as I like the infantry squads when blobbed, that's the only competative role I see for them. While I usually will take at least one blob, Vets will tend to fill out the rest of my troop choices in a variety of froms...and that's why they get my vote for best unit. Very flexible and adaptable to most any build, not to mention cheap.

Worst: Gotta agree with Mogul. Bad upgrade for a bad unit...[gump]and that's all I have to say about that[/gump]

Tau

Best: Crisis suits hands down. I love Broadsides, but Crisis suits are so flexible it's not even funny.

Worst: Space pope is worst pope! Has anyone ever made a competetive list with this guy?

Blood Angels

Best: Really tough choice, but I'd say the Librarian as it can complement almost any list and be an effective support unit,effective offensive threat, and psychic defense all at the same time.

Worst: I hate to say worst, but I have to put the Captain in here. I just can't see any reason to take him...ever. He's not bad by himself, but you lose a LOT of utility for some slightly better stats in choosing him over the libby.

Dark Angels
Best Choice: Belial, Master of the 1st Company: scoring Terminators and an Apothecary in Terminator Armor. Deathwing is probably the thing that drew most DA players in in the first place.

Worst Choice: Scouts. The veteran stat-line is nice, but they don't have the Scouts rule or homing beacons, they have to pay extra for sniper rifles, and of course they are not scoring.

Chaos Marines

Best Choice: Obliterators. They edge out the daemon Prince, in my view, though only just.

Worst Choice: Although Chaos Spawn seems like an obvious choice, I'm going to go with something people might actually be tempted to take and say: Posessed Chaos Space Marines.

Orks

Best:
Lootas - 15 Points for effectively a space marine autocannon. Yes please.

Runners up: Shoota Boyz - Point for point the best troop in the game.
Killa Kans - The cheapest walker in the game with a DCCW.

Worst:
Flash Gitz - 30 points for a mobile, short ranged heavy bolter? Pass.

Runner Up:
Storm Boyz - Double the cost of a boy for a boy with a jetpack that can kill him?

Grey Knights:

Best:
Dreadknight - get ready to see three of these in all GK lists

Worst:
Unsanctioned psyker - Ld 8 psyker, his power only works if you take lots of them, he is in an army of better psykers, they all die if you roll a perils. You should get pts for including these guys

Illumini wrote:Grey Knights:

Best:
Dreadknight - get ready to see three of these in all GK lists

Worst:
Unsanctioned psyker - Ld 8 psyker, his power only works if you take lots of them, he is in an army of better psykers, they all die if you roll a perils. You should get pts for including these guys

Sweet, you have a leaked Codex?

Agreed for stormboyz. They need some burna or big shoota options in that squad.

I am surprised for all the hatred of flash gitz. I want to take them someday and see what they can do. I'd take the Assault 2 option. With a lucky roll of 2 or 3, the Ap of the weapon will rip apart MEQ. They are also 25 points base, not 30.

Heffling wrote:Orks

Best:
Lootas - 15 Points for effectively a space marine autocannon. Yes please.

Runners up: Shoota Boyz - Point for point the best troop in the game.
Killa Kans - The cheapest walker in the game with a DCCW.

Worst:
Flash Gitz - 30 points for a mobile, short ranged heavy bolter? Pass.

Runner Up:
Storm Boyz - Double the cost of a boy for a boy with a jetpack that can kill him?

Grakmar wrote:Interesting comments on Eldar.

I'm going to have to disagree with Fire Dragons being the best. They work incredibly well in a mech force. But, they die long before they can get to their target in a foot slogging army. They also lose all usefulness against a pure horde army of all light infantry (not that you see that very often). Don't get me wrong, they're an excellent unit, but not the best.

The best has to go to a Farseer. Great in a mech army. Great in a foot army. Great if you're running Alaitoc rangers. Great if you're running all wraith Iyanden. They're simply amazing in any Eldar force you can come up with. They'd also work amazingly well in every other army.

The worst is clearly Baharroth. 200pts for a model without much firepower, not particularly good in assaults, and no invul save with only T4. Swooping Hawks (his aspect) get the nod if special characters aren't included.

Guardians are also a close worst. But, if backed up by an Avatar, they can be a decent unit.

guardian storm units I like..they are very flexible, and have the option for special weapons...add in a warlock with wargear/power tied up to the squad weapons (singing spear if the squad has fusion guns, destructor if the guardians have flamers) and the unit becomes quite useful....and they can fight in a pinch....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Maelstrom808 wrote:[
Imperial Guard

Best: Personally, as much as I like the infantry squads when blobbed, that's the only competative role I see for them. While I usually will take at least one blob, Vets will tend to fill out the rest of my troop choices in a variety of froms...and that's why they get my vote for best unit. Very flexible and adaptable to most any build, not to mention cheap.

Worst: Gotta agree with Mogul. Bad upgrade for a bad unit...[gump]and that's all I have to say about that[/gump]

When you talk about IG squads, don't forget that you select the IG platoon as a choice. The Ig squads themselves are very flexible (and trust me blobbing them is NOT the only way to play them..there will be instances where you will NOT want to have them blobbed), you also get access to the platoon command squad, which for me is the cheapest support weapon carrying squad available for the IG, as well as the SWS (while not as cheap, by hitching a ride in a squad's chimera they become my other SW units). In addition, with the platoon, you get the chance to get a lot of chimeras in just a single troops slot.

In my recent lists (including the one where I won my local GT), I have not even used a single veteran squad, instead relying on multiple SWS plus a couple of PCS (1 of which is upgraded to have Capt. Sidewinder (my Al'R), all mounted in their own or borrowed chimeras, with 1 riding a vendetta. That gives you a LOT of special weapon squads PLUS the firebase squads, and thus becomes a better holding force without sacrificing a lot of ability to claim objectives on the opponent's side of the table as well.

This makes the IG platoon a LOT more flexible than veterans. A fluffy AND effective FOC choice.

I like the BS4 and ablative wounds of the Vets, but I do see your point. I'll try out some adjusted lists with them.

I find it suprising that nobody really likes sniper drones, but to each there own. I know many uses for them (like taking down a squad of carnifexes), but I honestly have to say Aun'va is THE WORST THING EVER TO HAPPEN TO TAU!!! I would play with 6 6-man FW teams in a KP match and not shoot just to lose before i played with that sorry sack of $#!T......nuff said.....

Orks

Best: Love those Killa Kans. One of the coolest looking models, customizable, cheap points and fun to play with.
Runner Up: To go with the kans a Mek with KFF is the bees knees

Worst: Can't say I am a big fan of those tank bustas. Too tough to control and a lot points to spend when there are lootas and coptas available.

Tyranids

Best: Trygon, just awesome to see and have great CC abilities.
Runner up: Genestealers, even with the new codex they still run a train in CC

Worst: Rippers, there is really no need for these things.

Tau

Best: Pathfinders (Markerlights win games)

Worst: Ethereal (Really, though, what were they thinking with this guy?)

Orks:
Best: The ork boy. 6 points...

Worst: The looted wagon. Not only is it a model with a drawback, but it's so much less than it could have been. Old-school ork players remember how much fun we had with looted vehicles in the old edition. What's wrong with looting a basilisk or a russ? No, instead, here, have a half-ranged battle-cannon on an AV11 platform, with the opportunity to malfunction. Brilliant.

P.S. Anyone who said Big Guns are bad needs to seriously re-evaluate them in a footslogging list. 60 points for 3 kannons that can hide at range are some of the best support units we have. Unless you're running a heavy-support based list (kans or wagons), these are easy add-ons that help bust transports before you get to them.

Daemons:
Worst: Beast of Nurgle.
Best: Probably Fiends, although tzeentch and khorne chariots are pretty amazing for their cost.

Witchhunters
Best: The humble sister. 11 points for BS4, power armour and a bolter, with options for flamers and meltas.
Worst: Sisters Repentia, too slow and vulnerable to have strike-last weapons.

Space Wolves:

Best: Grey Hunters. If you aren't making a terminator army, grey hunters are your staple, no question about it.

Worst: swiftclaw bikers. Just...no.

Runner up: Blood Claws. Just my opinion, but the rules for them do not make up for BS and WS3

Vanilla Space Marine

Best: I'd say a tie between all the SCs to play how you like with whatever list you like. Mix it up to be fluffy or competitive.

Worst: Devastators, I love them to bits but the point cost kills any lists you try to make with them.
Runner up: Chapter Master. Costs more than a captain and a pip in stats to gain Orbital Strike: How can I lose?

*edited for spelling

"As for worst, I'm going for techpriest. Because... seriously..."

Damn right man.

Interesting that it took 3 pages for someone to post on vanilla marines. With the theoretical dominance of vanilla marines amongst the armies (I'm talking numbers, not competitiveness) that's surprising to me.

Vanilla Marines:
best unit: red or grey-blue paint and a different codex?
No seriously though, I think heavy-bolter predators are a lot of bang-for-the-buck pointswise and LRC for a ridiculous unstoppable beast (especially if you fill it with assault terminators). Both of those can come with red or grey-blue paint and a different codex too though, so maybe that's why nobody posted about vanilla marines yet.

worst unit: I think the thunderfire cannon looks pretty lame. Easy target, easy to kill, hard to keep safe, and it doesn't really hit that hard. PLus it takes up a valuable slot in the FOC. It is definitely an afterthought weapon. Between that and the Chapter Master who just costs too much.

I also think tactical squads, while not the worst unit, are pretty inefficient. People say "horray! I get a free flamer and missile launcher" but they forget that they are overpaying for Sarge, and that cost is figured in.

Comparatively to any other Marine-like codex, they suck. No other version of Marines requires a full 10 models in order to get a weapon upgrade. Who wants to buy 5 marines and overpay for sarge? Your hand is forced by practicality to throw on the extra 5 guys or it's just a useless squad. When you do add the "free" missile launcher and flamer you have a choice between splitting into two squads that are either too small to last long in cc, or one big squad with multiple personality disorder that will either never fire anything but the missile, or never fire the missile.

Gitsplitta wrote:Interesting that it took 3 pages for someone to post on vanilla marines. With the theoretical dominance of vanilla marines amongst the armies (I'm talking numbers, not competitiveness) that's surprising to me.

there's no clear worst or best with Nilla marines. There isn't even a top tier. I mean, what are the best marine units: assault marines, redeemers, ironclads, sternguard, typhoons, biker commands, vulkan. They are all about the same level of good, just in different lists.

As for worst, the only real duff units are Legion of the Damned, Venerable Dreadnoughts, and maybe techmarines. Everything else could have a pretty decent use.

Oh yeah I forgot about legion of the damned!
pros: tough to kill
cons: why would anybody go out of their way to try?

ORKS
best: Nobz, they are just so darned tough when geared up and they can pretty much tear through any unit with big choppas or PKs
2nd best: Deffkoptas, they have the potential of racing across the map and destroying all enemy vehicles on the first turn.

worst: haven't bought a whole lot of the "bad" models so I wouldn't know. Out of mine I would say kommandos, while they are really cool looking, they are expensive for just being able to get infiltrate and move through cover. There's not a whole lot of situations they come in handy for. I'd much rather spend the extra 4 pnts. per model on making them 'ard boyz.

'ere we go!

~IG~
Best Unit: Vendetta - Absolutely oustanding for the cost... and it can be harboring a bunch of angry vets that have very decent firepower as well (the meltavets are a VERY close second)

Worst Unit: Ratling snipers - Anything they can do, anything (almost) can do better. If you can beat me with an IG list on vassal that focuses on these guys, I'll mail you a Land Raider...

~SM~

Best Unit: Vulkan Hestan - Incredibly broken, especially in the current meta..

Worst unit: Probably Legion of the damned, if you count IA however, the Deathstrike Drop Pod(or whatever its called) is byfar the worst thing in existance... a few extra bolters at bs2 is no reason to sac your Xport Capacity!

~Black Templars~

Best Unit: Ha! I guess Land raiders can go here, cause no matter how bad your Codex is, LRs ftw!

Worst Unit: The Codex. Drastically needs a refresh, relies on old, non-existant rules, and even if those rules were in place, they still are the worst things you can get in power-armor...(kidding aside, initiates)

~Blood Angels~

Best Unit: Sanguinary Priest. His power is maximum (followed closely by furiosososososo Dreds)

Worst Unit: Sternguard Veterans. With all the other Amazing elites choices, why would you ever take these guys?

~Dark Angels~

Best unit: Belial - Hello Termi-troops!

Worst Unit: That guy who no-one knows his name. Srs, hes bad enuf that nobody knows his name... I think he casts terribad spells or something stupid.. IDK all I can say is that he doesnt multiply FoC or do anything worth-while, so he wins this prize!

~Space Wolves~

Best Unit: Long Fangs. Srsly, overpowered donkey-caves who cost close to nothing, and can split their firepower... did I mention they have counterattack and are semi-decent in CC?

Worst Unit: Bloodclaws on Bikes/Bloodclaws with Jetpacks. Either way, they are bloodclaws, and thus are inherently bad... they also cost extra points to make them still bad.. just bad!

~CSM~

Best Unit: Plague Marines. Srsly, wtf. Who made these guys? They arent SnP anymore, have FnP, Defensive grenades, and a 5 man squad can take 3 plasma/melta guns (depending on your flavor) and they are T5 to boot!

Worst Unit: Spawn of Chaos, even when you get it for free (via Boon/Gift) its still absolute garbage... SnP Random movement, Random Attacks, no save... its basically a free kill point (and each one counts as its own KP if made via ability!)

~CD~

Best Unit: Probably Seekers/Crushers. Both are outstanding in what they do/how they do it. Both are great units to take (especially Skull taker on a Crusher.. he probably takes the cake all things considered)

Worst Unit: Worst Unit: Spawn of Chaos, even when you get it for free (via Boon/Gift) its still absolute garbage... SnP Random movement, Random Attacks, no save... its basically a free kill point (and each one counts as its own KP if made via ability!) the only benefit of this one vs the CSM one ((IIRC)) is that its EW from the Daemon special rule, but don't quote me on that!

~DH~

NA Till April, I've got the demodex, but its not enough to say anything. As of right now however, inquisitor Kazamanof (or W.E) is the worst while Cotez(for =][= lists) and Draigo (for GK lists) would be the best.

~WH~

If I'm going to do which hunters/SoB I might as well do Squats... since that seems to be the direction GW is taking this army (since alot of the previously SoB exclusives are now found in the GK codex).

~Eldar~

Best Unit: Eldrad- For what he is worth, hes amazing!

Worst Unit: Either Pooping Hawks or Vyperrrrrrrs both are pretty terrible, and both can't really do much (in any edition lol).

~Dark Eldar~

Best Unit: Venom Transport. A Much needed addition to the Codex with outstanding Firepower/Survivability. If only I could fit more then like, 2 guys in it! Even with the restriction, its still a great unit!

Worst unit: Cronos Pain Engine. As of right now, this thing is just too costly/useless, as anything it can do, many other slots can do better. Its not worth the HS slot its in, nor is it worth converting a model for it (as none currently exist). (sadly, Mandrakes((and the new decapitator)) are a VERY close second/third for this one... I was really hoping for some better rules for them)

Side Note: To anyone who thinks Grotesques should belong at the "worst slot"... try them out more, they are outstanding with their t5(FnP) s5(6 on charge with a Haemonculi) and they have like 4 attacks each on the charge (the leader can have 6 with proper wargear) and when you kamikazi them on purpose, they can be DEVASTATING to horde.

~Tau~

Best Unit: Hammer Head Gunship. Outstanding in Low-Point games, even better in high point games. All and all a great unit!

Worst Unit: Space Pope (since he is the worst unit in the game, Its fair to call him the worst unit in the dex as well)

~Necrons~

Best Unit: Monolith - Its survived years of codex and rules updates and still is one of the scariest models to ever see placed on the board... sure, you can ignore it and try to phase out the crons by killing warriors, but if you can't get them quick enough, this thing will do MASSIVE damage to your lines! ((Did I mention that it CANNOT be killed via glance by non AP1?))

Worst Unit: Heavy Destroyers. "Hi, I'm slightly better then normal destroyers, but more points per guy, you can't get many of me per HS slot and I use up slots that could go towards more monoliths! But thats ok, I'm still a Legitimate pick in some peoples eyes!"... no!

~Nids~

Best Unit: Tervigon: A MC that can count as troops (aka scoring), poop out other scoring troops, hold its own in CC (especially against vehicles), and grants buffs (like FnP) to friendly units nearby! YAY!

Worst Unit: That big Beetle/Dinosaur thing with the cannon on its back... Why? its not a trygon!

~Orkz~

Best Unit: Lootas! tons of Str 7 shots for not too many points. Whats not to love?

Worst Unit: Flash Gits. Lootas are better and honestly, they are WAAAAY to point heavy for what they produce...

I think that covers just about everyone!

But those are just my opinions as well!
~DAR

Gitsplitta wrote:Interesting that it took 3 pages for someone to post on vanilla marines. With the theoretical dominance of vanilla marines amongst the armies (I'm talking numbers, not competitiveness) that's surprising to me.

I feel there aren't any plain awful units in C:SM: devastators are pricey, the thunderfire cannon is an awkward fit for a mobile army, but they are not without their uses.

It goes without saying that Sternguard Veterans are one of the best units, ever.

Its interesting that sternguard are considered one of the best SM choices, and one of the worst for BA due to there being so many better options for an elite slot.

Like I said, best unit for SM is a bottle of red paint.

Guitardian wrote:Like I said, best unit for SM is a bottle of red paint.

Don't forget seasons 1-3 of Trueblood and all the Twilight books!

Isn't there a special character in C:SM that boosts sterngaurd though? I doubt BA have that.

Kantor makes them scoring... handy depending on your list but not overpowering.

or Grey Paint

SW
Best Unit : Grey Hunter/Rune Priest/LF
Worst Unit :.... ummmm Iron Priest? I mean WHY are you taking this?, and Wolf Scout and Swiftclaw

BA
Best Unit : Furioso, no need of explanation
Worst Unit : DC tycho, has to be this 175 point of uncontrollable model

Tau
Best Unit: Suit of any kind
Worst Unit: Space Pope, WHY OH WHY?

Tyranid
Best Unit: Tervigon, It birth more model, seriously what could go wrong?
Worst Unit : Pyrovore, he is in the way of my elite slot, he is "only" a heavy flamer

DA
Best Unit: BELIAL, troop terminator with free LC and TH and SS
Worst Unit: that special librarian guy, complete and utter....

Retrias wrote:Worst Unit: that special librarian guy, complete and utter....

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:
Worst Unit: That guy who no-one knows his name. Srs, hes bad enuf that nobody knows his name... I think he casts terribad spells or something stupid.. IDK all I can say is that he doesnt multiply FoC or do anything worth-while, so he wins this prize!

AHA! I'm not the only one that didnt care to know his name!