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Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:

Retrias wrote:Worst Unit: that special librarian guy, complete and utter....

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:
Worst Unit: That guy who no-one knows his name. Srs, hes bad enuf that nobody knows his name... I think he casts terribad spells or something stupid.. IDK all I can say is that he doesnt multiply FoC or do anything worth-while, so he wins this prize!

AHA! I'm not the only one that didnt care to know his name!

You mean Ezekiel?

He seems rather overcosted and not much better than a regular Librarian. But, nothing terrible that I'm seeing.

What's the big drawback I'm not seeing?

Ezekiel? because I actually have to amend that 'worst option' for DA to all Dark Angels Librarians. 2 Lousy powers, LD 9 psychic hoods. And the Chief Librarian doesn't improve much (at all). He gets a model-sniping power and confers fearless within 12". Umm yeah.

Edit: ninja'd

Gitsplitta wrote:Kantor makes them scoring... handy depending on your list but not overpowering.

Not overpowered no, but it lets sterngaurd fulfill troop duties, with elite firepower.

Illumini wrote:

Bavers wrote:
Worst: Well hard choice but.....AssultTerminators. Very expensive and just cant kill enough and its pointless trying to deep strike them becouse....

What what what what??!?

You certainly have a unique outlook on this game

Space marines:
Best: Many good units, but Assault terminators just fit so well in almost all lists.

Worst: Legion of the Damned. Just so insanely overcosted and useless.

I agree with this more than the thunderfire/assault termies best and worst.

assault termies gave me a headache, but only when I have them shovelled at me by a LRC. Slogging it they are dumb, but a lot of codex have units that really only shine when backed up (like my fire dragons who just define useless without their wave serpent)

Witchunters:

Best: Basic Sister. Power armor, bolter, faith, and BS 4 for only 11 points is a steal.

Worst: Repentia. They are the worst unit in the game. They cannot work, ever. A 20 pt t3 model that moves 6" and has only a 4+ save and stikes last....Your joking right?

Blood Angels -

Best: Troop choice assault squads; they're not exciting, but they're the core of what the BA army is about. I've never had a list without an assault squad in it, and they get things done.

Worst: DC Tycho; honestly, what was the design decision behind him? A 175 point uncontrollable HQ that's not even an IC... Where do I sign up?!

Blood Angels:
Best:Assault marines
Why:Because they kill tanks, they rock at assault. You can turn them into Khorne Beserkers with a priest.
Worst:Tactical marines
Why:Because assault marines are simply better at doing everything that a tactical marine does. Tactical marines can't keep up carrying their heavy weapons with a typically fast BA army.

Far Seer wrote:Tactical marines can't keep up carrying their heavy weapons with a typically fast BA army.

That's why you use Combat squads to split the Tac squad so the heavy weapon doesn't move while the special weapon does...

Also, I do not think Assault Marines are not the best thing in the codex... If we were going with "usage" over "potential" then Genestealers would probably top the Nid list, Hellions or Wracks on DE, and Dire Avengers for Eldar, none of which are truely the "best options" (just the "most used") of the dex. I mean, in reality based on the meta, all the SM "best units" would probably be Las-Plas Razorbacks.

~DAR

Black Templars

Best: Terminators. Tank Hunters with 2 CMLs on 5 dudes? YES PLEASE!

Runner-up: Emperor's Champion. 140 points for army-wide preferred enemy and a pretty good melee dude who lets you ignore taking other HQs? Yes please.

Worst: Assault Marines. Attack Bikes. Expensive and you have to take at least 2? Meh.

Runner-up: Techmarine. While potentially killy, 70+ points for an IC with 2 wounds, no ++ and one elite slot less, competing with terminators and venerable tank hunters? Riiiight.

Guitardian wrote:I also think tactical squads, while not the worst unit, are pretty inefficient. People say "horray! I get a free flamer and missile launcher" but they forget that they are overpaying for Sarge, and that cost is figured in.

Comparatively to any other Marine-like codex, they suck. No other version of Marines requires a full 10 models in order to get a weapon upgrade. Who wants to buy 5 marines and overpay for sarge? Your hand is forced by practicality to throw on the extra 5 guys or it's just a useless squad. When you do add the "free" missile launcher and flamer you have a choice between splitting into two squads that are either too small to last long in cc, or one big squad with multiple personality disorder that will either never fire anything but the missile, or never fire the missile.

Not true, at my local GW they wanted to know out of all the space marine codexes who had the best marines? so they had a bunch of small games with all of the SM codexes, SM with tac squad, SW with grey hunters, BA with assault marines, and so on. All squads were at full strength and could only take free upgrades. In one game we had a full squad of tac marines with free flamer and ML and pit them against a full squad of gray hunters and boom those space pups ate dirt.

Why? 1: the tac squad was split in to combat squads, now those puppies could only deal with one squad at a time. the pups got blasted by the ML, and turned in to hot dogs by the flamer!

2: the puppies shot as they advanced of corse! But this was not the best idea as the tac marines just fail their moral and fell back, making it harder for the puppies to get in to close combat!

3: O look the puppies got into close combat with A (remember a unit can only shoot, assault one target at a time, so that leaves the other combat squad to rapid fire the pups) tac combat squad, the tac squad is going to die now finaly! But what is this??? they failed their moral test and are falling back? how are the pups going to hit them now? ( I know thats only if they live, which they did, and the pups can do a sweeping advance but more often then not I have seen a tac squad escape from cc, which they did) Now both of the tac marine combat squads just rapid fired and flamed the pups in the face during their turn!

The SM player only lost 4 marines in that game! The same thing happened between the SM and the BA, but it was a close match with the SM on top by 2 guys! As it turned out the SM came out on top of all the others! This is not to say that all other marines eat dirt, It showed us that all of them are great if you take advantage of their special rules and use them in roles they were made for (do not send a tac squad into CC, that is why they have combat tactics to avoid CC!)

Rex-Nine


Automatically Appended Next Post:
O yeah SM

Best: hmmm Thunderfire, cheap, powerful(it is, don't be stupid and shoot vehicles, shoot infantry duh!) ignored more often then not.

Worst: Legion of the Damned, cause they are damned

Edit: stupid spelling


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:

Far Seer wrote:Tactical marines can't keep up carrying their heavy weapons with a typically fast BA army.

That's why you use Combat squads to split the Tac squad so the heavy weapon doesn't move while the special weapon does...

Also, I do not think Assault Marines are not the best thing in the codex... If we were going with "usage" over "potential" then Genestealers would probably top the Nid list, Hellions or Wracks on DE, and Dire Avengers for Eldar, none of which are truely the "best options" (just the "most used") of the dex. I mean, in reality based on the meta, all the SM "best units" would probably be Las-Plas Razorbacks.

~DAR

I think only C:SM can combat squad.

All that yeah, Tac squads are awesome, especiall for the price (compare what anybody else gets for 16 ppm)

Wow I just can not stop posting!

I think only C:SM can combat squad.

Blood Angels can
Dark Angels can
BT can't
SW's can't

SoB:

Best: Seraphim Squad. Fast-paced women with jet packs and duel pistols makes for the best FAST choice in the entire Codex.

Worst: Celestians/Reg SoB/Dominions
The ONLY thing different with these choices is A) the number of what you can have in each squad and B) what APC they go in.... wtf??

AdeptSister wrote:Witchunters:
Worst: Repentia. They are the worst unit in the game. They cannot work, ever. A 20 pt t3 model that moves 6" and has only a 4+ save and stikes last....Your joking right?

I actually had my shining spears beaten by repentia. I came in from reserve, planned it well, and was about to multi-assault the repentia and an immolater. This was my first time playing witchhunters. Standing over the table with my opponent, I said to him "I suppose I might as well shoot first . . . they'll still be in range . . . I suppose it won't make any difference eh?" He said "yeah, sure". As soon as I shot, he proclaimed that repentia had an ability allowing them to move forward immediately, and assault me!

So, thanks to that little bugger, I was in probably the only conceivable situation where repentia can beat shining spears. I suppose even if a unit is terrible, you can make it work by concealing its special abilities from your opponent until the last minute. I honestly could have strangled that guy . .

Space Marine IMHO...

Best
1. STERNGUARD All round brilliant unit
runner up - Telion with a Scout sniper unit + ML

Worst
2. VANGUARD over priced, never used, crap special rules
runner up - Whirlwind

Inquisitor Cyotle wrote:Worst: Celestians/Reg SoB/Dominions
The ONLY thing different with these choices is A) the number of what you can have in each squad and B) what APC they go in.... wtf??

This is a codex that is 8 years old alot of things have happened since then. Also ...
Celestians ... always hit on a 3+ regardless of weapons skill (not MC or characters but to be frank that still leaves them hitting most of them on a 4+). At 13pts in power armour, nothing much wrong there.
Reg SoB ... 11pts power armour, BS4, bolter, and choice of flamers or meltas. Nope can nothing wrong here (if you look down the page 10pts storm trooper is a much worse unit)
Dominions ... 11pts can take 4 meltas and must have a transport. Great

Now they may be a little similar but that's like complaining that all SM are 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 ... All those sister units are faithful ... means they can strike at Str5 I1, AP1/ Power weapon attacks on a wound roll of 6, add +2Initive, become fearless, or turn their 3+ armour into a 3++ inv

... Now if we're talking about bad units well:-
Death-cult Assassins, sister Repentia and penitent Engines

Shenra wrote:

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Its nowhere near right mate


Nurglings cant hold objectives.
Being a swarm they dont mix with blasts.
Low T means alot of things instant death the whole swarm.
They cant fight to any extent, no matter what you do to them.


Jihallah - Whats comical about them other than the price?

Except nurglings are daemons, and thus immune to instant death.

Nurglings also go well when you have Epidemius, especially if you have over 20 kills (basically each base deals out 3 2+ poisoned power weapon attacks). Granted this is hard to get, but you get the 2+ poison after only 10 kills (easy against anything but Death Wing). You can also spawn Nurglings with Ku'gath. Otherwise though, they're just there to provide a cover save.

Eldar:
Best: banshees in a wave serpent backed by guide/doomseer.
Well yeah, its expensive but it owns.

Runner up: fire dragons: five meltas. 90 points. enough said

Worst: Pheonix lords: expensive, tooled up exarchs with no invl. saves. FAIL

Ok I just have to respond to all this hate on Rough Riders because they are arguably my favorite unit in the whole codex and I never build a list without them. Ok lets take a quick look at them here is how I run them a 5 man squad with a melta bomb for the sergeant so 60 pts. For that I get a great counter assault unit with 11 S 5 I 5 power wep attacks on the first assault. They fill this role very well and always end up paying for them selves especially against Assault terminators or MEQs. They are also a great assault unit for Mech armies because they are really good at dealing with dug in units because they have frag grenades and even if they don't get their, which they usually do as fast as they are, just drawing the fire they usually do pays for their modest cost of 60 pts. After the assault however they are far from useless though I am more then welcome to let my opponents think that. If they survive their initial assault then they are usually ignored by your opponents but they are still very fast, and remembers the sergeant still has melta bombs, so now I throw then at vehicles. Each Rough Rider has krak grenades and with the speed of rough riders it shouldn't be too hard to find a target and hit it hard, don't forget that if the vehicle hasn't moved you auto hit. I hope this mini tactical guide will help you find some love for these too often overlooked models. The problems most people run into with Rough Riders is only run one unit and keep it at 5 models.

Eldar:
best- harlequins, 4 attacks each + strength 4 + rending = one dead (insert name of dead unit here)

worst- storm squad guardians, an assault unit that's crap at assault.

DeJolly wrote:Ok I just have to respond to all this hate on Rough Riders because they are arguably my favorite unit in the whole codex and I never build a list without them. Ok lets take a quick look at them here is how I run them a 5 man squad with a melta bomb for the sergeant so 60 pts. For that I get a great counter assault unit with 11 S 5 I 5 power wep attacks on the first assault. They fill this role very well and always end up paying for them selves especially against Assault terminators or MEQs. They are also a great assault unit for Mech armies because they are really good at dealing with dug in units because they have frag grenades and even if they don't get their, which they usually do as fast as they are, just drawing the fire they usually do pays for their modest cost of 60 pts. After the assault however they are far from useless though I am more then welcome to let my opponents think that. If they survive their initial assault then they are usually ignored by your opponents but they are still very fast, and remembers the sergeant still has melta bombs, so now I throw then at vehicles. Each Rough Rider has krak grenades and with the speed of rough riders it shouldn't be too hard to find a target and hit it hard, don't forget that if the vehicle hasn't moved you auto hit. I hope this mini tactical guide will help you find some love for these too often overlooked models. The problems most people run into with Rough Riders is only run one unit and keep it at 5 models.

For those who posted here regarding the IG, I don't think the RR was mentioned unanimously. If they are worst, it's not the rules but the current models. They look awful.

And I love my converted bike riding RR. They do just fine and when they work they REALLY work..

Right, the worst things aren't those things which have niche roles in which they're effective. Were this true, everyone would hate autocannons.

The worst things are those things that have NO role that they do better than other options, or they have a role, but even in opportune circumstances do it poorly, or are still not worth taking.

And for the record the thunderfire cannon gets my vote for the worst thing in the SM codex. You're spending 100 points for a single W1 marine with no invul save. Kill the marine OR JUST GLANCE A PIECE OF AV10 ONCE, and the whole thing comes crashing down.

If I get first turn, and my opponent fails to seize, it will never get a shot off. If that's not true, then it gets exactly one shot off, against spread out troops.

I don't actually own the SM codex, so I can't say this for absolute certainty, but I'd have a hard time imagining there's anything worse than that.

How has Nork not been mentioned as one of the worst IG units yet?

Yea the worst model in the IG codex to me is probably the tech priest I have tried hard to make him useful but he is just not worth it under any of the circumstances I have encountered.

Nork has not been mentioned because he is too funny I'd say. Seriously though Nork Might actually hurt something or soak some wounds off your commander...he is definately waay to expensive but the tech priest just isn't really useful in the majority of circumstances. Even in the role it was designed for it isn't what I would call reliable and you can't repair things that go boom.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers,
~Volkan

And for the Record I think Death Cult Assassins are more useless that Repentia.

DE
Best: RAVAGER with a flickerfield, this thing will always make it's points back, it's cheap as all hell and it will win you games every time
Runner up: Beastmaster, my god they can kill so much and not die, if it wasn't for the price ($) they would be amazing!
Worse: Mandrakes, why oh why do GW you make the coolest models in existence and make them crap? Come on I would pay 20-25 points a model if they had rending/power weapons, they just aint killy enough! And their special character, WHY!!!
Runner up: I would put a succubus here, but at lower point games (750) she/he is cheap and cheerful, and will pretty much take any other HQ on, in other words, the rest of the codex is awesome in their own way

SOB
Best: Seraphim, I live and die by these gals, never have they let me down!
Runner up: Battle sister, you know why, faith points rule
Worst: Arco Flagelents, worst unit in the game by far, even rival to the space pope, even repentia can do more damage then these guys!

Space Wolves:
-Best: Grey Hunters. It's hard to find a more solid and deadly core unit in any codex. Cheap, durable, deadly, and decently mobile if given transport.

Worst: Skyclaws. Can't say I've ever seen them used. Literally. It almost requires a Wolf Priest with them just to make them effective, which makes them too expensive.

Space Marines:
-Best: Vulkan. Seriously. He makes some of the best weapons in the game even better. With the right list, he can double the effectiveness of almost every unit in an army.

-Worst: Chronus. Never seen him taken. Out of all the units he can upgrade, it only matters on one unit, and only in one configuration, and he's really too expensive to be worth it. Land Raiders either have Twin Linked or Template weapons (I guess if you really need that BS5 MM shot) and for Whirlwinds and Vindicators, 1 inch less scatter hardly makes a difference. Only marginally useful on an AC/Las Pred, since none of those weapons are twin linked. Still, for what you pay for him, you could just buy another AC Predator.

Blood Angels:
-Best: Sanguinary Priests. Doesn't matter what he's near. Chances are, his going to buff it in close combat. With the right list and correct tactics, he's a force multiplier for the entire army.

-Worst: Death Company Tycho. Could be decent but for the lack of one common special rule which I am forced to believe was left out of his profile purely out of spite on Matt Ward's part. Without Independent Character, he an average CC character than can be instant death'd by way too many things before he can even make a difference.

Grey Knights (Predictions):
-Best: Henchman Squads. "Here's 12 dudes with power weapons and Storm shields for less than a Hammernator Squad. Hope your deathstar has fun for the next 4 turns." and "Obliterators? Yeah, those were cute. Also, I hope you didn't get nightmares from Planet of the Apes, or this is gonna really suck for you."

-Worst: Castellan Crowe: See DC Tycho but add "Also, gives Furious Charge to enemies that assault him. Double you. Tee. Eff?"

Rex-Nine wrote: Not true, at my local GW they wanted to know out of all the space marine codexes who had the best marines? so they had a bunch of small games with all of the SM codexes, SM with tac squad, SW with grey hunters, BA with assault marines, and so on. All squads were at full strength and could only take free upgrades.

Firstly, this proves nothing. You're setting up a scenario that favours vanilla SMs and then act all high and mighty when they win.

Secondly, I find it hard to believe that the tac squad described would win against a maxed crusader squad, considering they get RZ...