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You're aware that you can 'see' edits, etc right?

I have not touched my posts' content.

Once again: I have not said 'GW is the beacon of all things hobby', nor have I said that Mantic or even historicals are 'cheap crap'.

So stop putting words in my mouth and try reading a post all the way through if you want to actually engage in a 'debate'.

Fire the layers and layers of over-management for a company that just makes boardgames.
You dont need dedicated stores that only exist until the local market is saturated, you don't need layers and layers of mismanagement or stupid marketing tricks like direct only, you dont need profit margins that are hilariously high.
You need to stop hiring your cousins and brothers as useless middle managers, you need to hire better writers and spell/fact/play test your rulebooks.

Kanluwen wrote:You're aware that you can 'see' edits, etc right?

I have not touched my posts' content.

Once again: I have not said 'GW is the beacon of all things hobby', nor have I said that Mantic or even historicals are 'cheap crap'.

So stop putting words in my mouth and try reading a post all the way through if you want to actually engage in a 'debate'.

Its never a debate mate if you talk of what you do not know and when called upon insist with the same line of posts... its debate when you actually read and try to understand diferent poinst of views... its not a debate if you repeat the same argument all over dakka for years... its not repeating something again and again multiple times ( and in this case with no knowledge) witout hearing people what I call "debate" material. Its fun for some minutes though.


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Kilkrazy wrote:You call these malformed...



You're kidding, right?!?

Certainly not malformed those are sweet... but some 15mm (or any other scale) have malformed examples... and the example was more comical than accurate to be honest

Razorgor.

Every company can produce a dog's egg occasionally.

NAVARRO wrote:

spaceelf wrote:The Maelstrom Battlefront thread brought up the advantages and disadvantages of mail order business. Many people are willing to forgo the in-store buying experience, looking over a model for defects such as miscasts and broken parts, for cheaper prices via mail order. This got me thinking, are there other aspects of the hobby that I could forego to save some cash? We all know that sales volume, the number of items sold, is one factor that reduces costs to the consumer. Increased volume may be gained by reducing the number of different types of models in armies. It may also be gained by making simpler models with fewer parts that appeal to beginners. Less detailed molds also reduce costs.

Would you be willing to sacrifice some variety for cheaper prices? If so, how little variety would be acceptable? How much of a discount would be required to sway you? Can you live with starter set style models or are highly posable figures a must? Do you think that it would hurt the 40k/fantasy playing experience if there were fewer types of models or fewer races?

I dont see much sense on your sentences... maybe its just me reading... Since when buying online has anything to do with opting to get faulty miscasts or substandart products?
Since when well priced products equals less variety?

I obviously did not convey my point well in my first post. Buying online relates to miscasts in several ways. First, when you shop in a retail store you can inspect the products that are in blisters to make sure that they do not have miscasts. Second, online stores have lower prices and there are other ways to lower prices. One of these is to have a smaller range of products. Lets take the example of Fantasy. They currently have 15 different armies. If there were fewer armies there would be fewer models to sculpt and books to write. Thus GWs costs are lower. Further, sales of their more limited range would increase as customers would have fewer kits from which to choose. For example instead of playing Tomb Kings, a player may take up Vampire Counts, thus increasing the number of Vampire Counts models sold. Thus, sacrificing variety should result in the reduction of models. It should also be noted that one can sacrifice variety within an army as well. Simply limit the number of unit choices in a book. The purpose of my post was to invite discussion about the balance of variety and price, which it has.

Based on the price conscious nature of the average consumer, I would think that an inexpensive game system with a handful of different forces, and a small range of models would sell very well.

biccat wrote:
Most of the mail-order folks aren't sacrificing anything, they're free riding on those of us who purchase in-store. Buying in-store provides gaming space, in-store codices, stock on the wall, and supports the community. Buying online and taking advantage of these things is free riding.

I agree that they are free riding. However, they do lose out on the opportunity to inspect the products before they buy them. There are still plenty of miscasts and broken swords. That is one reason why I liked it when Battle Bunkers still carried Forge World. You could look over the stuff before you bought it.

biccat wrote:
spaceelf wrote:Would you be willing to sacrifice some variety for cheaper prices? If so, how little variety would be acceptable?
Yes, I would love to see all the various Chaos cult troops replaced with a "basic set + upgrade sprue." The Khorne upgrade sprue would have axes + heads, Tzeentch would have tabards + heads (OK, I really just want a plastic TS sprue), Nurgle would be gooey bits + heads, and Slanesh would have heads + sonic weaponry.

Sure you're losing some variety, but this would standardize the model line and make it cheaper. They already do this with all of the rhino varients.

I'd also love to see most of the SM line reduced. There's no reason to have a Dreadnought, Venerable Dreadnought, Ironclad Dreadnought, and Furioso Dreadnought (or even a separate Chaos Dreadnought). Make 1 dreadnought and upgrade sprues. Similar logic as Chaos for the various SM troops (vets, sternguard, assault, tac, devs, DC, wolves). The BT and DA specific troops could stay, because they add something to the line (cloaks), but should be reduced to 1 model + upgrades.

Similar logic applies to Eldar, there's no reason to have separate sprues when most of the basic eldar body is the same. One sprue can have body + legs while a second has the important aspect bits.

Ditto for Orks. No reason not to have ork boyz sprue + 'ard boyz/slugga boyz/flash gits/burna boyz sprue.

The alien-based armies with a wider variety of troop types (DE, Tau, Necrons) would be harder to standardize, but are already pretty lean.

These are great ideas. I would love it if they made a basic body sprue and upgrade sprues that were not exclusive to a particular type of unit but rather included a variety of weaponry and equipment.

On on individual level, you don't need to spend that much to play 40k if you don't really care about GW minis. You can get 80 or so Warzone minis for about $30 on EBAY. Boom, half of an IG blob army. You can order the entire AoBR Ork army for around $30. Two of those and you're most of the way there to an Ork army. The Marine contents are about $40.

I used to be big on supporting my FLGS but considering I've given them thousands of dollars in business over the course of 10+ years, I think I'm allowed to spend my money where I want to spend my money.

Kilkrazy wrote:Razorgor.

Every company can produce a dog's egg occasionally.

That is patently ridiculous! The Razorgor clearly should be used to cover the entire ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Michaelangelo was good. Razorgor is better.

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p.s on topic, I have the opposite problem, I can't stop buying stuff lol. I really need to spend less time on ebay and more time at my hobby table :s

spaceelf wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

spaceelf wrote:The Maelstrom Battlefront thread brought up the advantages and disadvantages of mail order business. Many people are willing to forgo the in-store buying experience, looking over a model for defects such as miscasts and broken parts, for cheaper prices via mail order. This got me thinking, are there other aspects of the hobby that I could forego to save some cash? We all know that sales volume, the number of items sold, is one factor that reduces costs to the consumer. Increased volume may be gained by reducing the number of different types of models in armies. It may also be gained by making simpler models with fewer parts that appeal to beginners. Less detailed molds also reduce costs.

Would you be willing to sacrifice some variety for cheaper prices? If so, how little variety would be acceptable? How much of a discount would be required to sway you? Can you live with starter set style models or are highly posable figures a must? Do you think that it would hurt the 40k/fantasy playing experience if there were fewer types of models or fewer races?

I dont see much sense on your sentences... maybe its just me reading... Since when buying online has anything to do with opting to get faulty miscasts or substandart products?
Since when well priced products equals less variety?

I obviously did not convey my point well in my first post. Buying online relates to miscasts in several ways. First, when you shop in a retail store you can inspect the products that are in blisters to make sure that they do not have miscasts. Second, online stores have lower prices and there are other ways to lower prices. One of these is to have a smaller range of products. Lets take the example of Fantasy. They currently have 15 different armies. If there were fewer armies there would be fewer models to sculpt and books to write. Thus GWs costs are lower. Further, sales of their more limited range would increase as customers would have fewer kits from which to choose. For example instead of playing Tomb Kings, a player may take up Vampire Counts, thus increasing the number of Vampire Counts models sold. Thus, sacrificing variety should result in the reduction of models. It should also be noted that one can sacrifice variety within an army as well. Simply limit the number of unit choices in a book. The purpose of my post was to invite discussion about the balance of variety and price, which it has.

I understand better your point. thanks.
You dont buy only clear clamshells on brick stores, many stuff comes in boxes these days... I tell you this because of my experience in shopping I have catched 2 sprues of miscasts in my life and guess what... I got them at a brick store and obvioulsy just opened the boxes when I got home... so yeah its basicly the same not every product is visible for you to check even instores.

So your commenting only the GW model of doing things than rather generaly speaking of miniatures and companies right? THe only way I see myself buying or sacrifice towards GW only.... I think I buy what I really like and the only thing I sacrifice is things I dont consider essential for my armies. ANother big sacrifice is that i dont get into another race or dex just keep what I have and update it when Im in the mood... thing is its so tempting to buy from other companies atm that I sacrifice Most GW stuff with much pleasure.
My euros walk a lot further elsewere.

spaceelf wrote:Buying online relates to miscasts in several ways. First, when you shop in a retail store you can inspect the products that are in blisters to make sure that they do not have miscasts.

So much stuff is in boxes now I'm not sure that applies as much as it used to.

If anything you have more protection with online shopping because you get that week or two period that allows you to return a purchase and get your money back even if the item is in perfect condition. With a highstreet shop they are only obliged to take back faulty goods, GW stores will take back unopened goods for store credit but that's their goodwill.

Kanluwen wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:Make 40k Skirmish level and bring back Epic scale for super doopa mega knock down slugfests.

In fact, scrub 40k bring back epic as the be all and end all.

If I wanted to play 15mm, I'd be playing 15mm.

Keep your Epic away from my 40k!

Please keep your Epic away from my Epic. You would not be playing Epic since it was 6mm.

12thRonin wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:Make 40k Skirmish level and bring back Epic scale for super doopa mega knock down slugfests.

In fact, scrub 40k bring back epic as the be all and end all.

If I wanted to play 15mm, I'd be playing 15mm.

Keep your Epic away from my 40k!

Please keep your Epic away from my Epic. You would not be playing Epic since it was 6mm.

Yeah, I realized that afterwards. Didn't feel like editing.

snurl wrote:The best thing that could happen is for them to become a privately owned company again.

Absolutely. I think pretty much every criticism you can level at the company these days relates (or springs from) that issue.