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It is hard to say painting models is an art, at least for most people. Art imply s that there is an act of creation from ones mind/soul, or a process of simple expression, which some more analytical minded people can have a hard time doing. However painting 40k models is more like paint between the lines but 3d, with some notable exceptions, I'm just speaking for the joe blow guy trying to make his models at least passable. Thats why I have a hard time accepting the argument of "I posses no art tallent so I can't paint".

The techniques required to obtain better than average models are for the most part techniques that can be easily enhanced with simple practice. No need to view a model in a way that has never been seen before, you just gotta stick blue were blue goes and green were green goes. Brush control, proper paint dilution, dry brushing, washing are all easily figured out with trial and error and trust me we have all gone through our own "really really bad" stage were we were trying and failing... gloriously. Highlighting can require a good eye for light but you really dont have to highlight to have passable models. In fact you don't really need to get too detailed with it, just use 3 colors if you just want "table top quality"

Now I hear all the guys that just don't have time, I don't usually have much time either but I have not been working for about 6 months so... I got time...

All I'm saying is if you got time, and a desire then don't just give up because your first attempts sucked, mine did too.

In the end though I have never had a problem playing unpainted minis, doesn't bother me in the least. However you may be confusing people that prefer painted armies and people who enjoy the painting side as HAAC (I like that lol.) type people, which they arn't. Of course there are those hobby elitists out there...

I'm not trying to be rude, but there really isn't any excuse to field unpainted miniatures. There are innumerable techniques out there that vastly speed up the process of painting and culminate a solid result; nothing award winning but solid nonetheless.

Dips have already been mentioned, washes is another one. All you really need to do is paint the basecoat, give the model a wash and then base it. Table-top standard, and when viewed as an army, still rather effective. I might put forward the proposition that you are trying to achieve too much too quickly; focus on the basics, (as silly as it sounds) your breathing, and don't put so much pressure on yourself. You'll find your hand naturally steadies itself as it gets used to the position/pressures of the brush. Its much like re-learning to write, except you find yourself frustrated because you KNOW you can do it, but your hand isn't letting you. Relax, play whale music, do whatever calms you down before picking up a brush; if you enter into painting with an aggressive mindset your movements will be sharp and erratic, and you'll just frustrate yourself further when the model turns out looking less-than-stellar.

Try getting one of the old paint pots, blobbing a lump of blu-tac onto the top, and sticking the miniature on that. You increase the surface area you can hold onto massively (you hold the pot rather than the model), which in turn helps with stabilisation.

There are LOADS of hints, tips, shortcuts and 'cheat' methods you can use to improve your painting. Simply plonking grey models down and saying 'I'm rubbish so I won't try' just doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

L. Wrex

I couldn't care less if an army is painted. I care more about who I'm playing. Ill take a grey army with a cool owner than a guy with a pro painted army who I can't stand. If people want to whine about your unpainted army so much, prime them and put two dots of whatever colors on it, then there you go. Fully painted, three different colors, now let's play.

When I started painting in Rogue Trader, it was tough to paint an army. The paints required a lot of work, and there were only two colors of primer designed for minis: white and black.

Now that there is a spray primer in every color you could ever want, and dip, you literally need zero painting skill to have a decent looking army.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:When I started painting in Rogue Trader, it was tough to paint an army. The paints required a lot of work, and there were only two colors of primer designed for minis: white and black.

Now that there is a spray primer in every color you could ever want, and dip, you literally need zero painting skill to have a decent looking army.

I'm afraid I'm sitting at less than zero (models ending up worse than when I started) but I'll keep trying.

Different color primers might be a nice start. I'll hafta order it online or something though, as my FLGS only sells black and white :/

lucasbuffalo wrote:
I'm afraid I'm sitting at less than zero (models ending up worse than when I started) but I'll keep trying.

Different color primers might be a nice start. I'll hafta order it online or something though, as my FLGS only sells black and white :/

What army do you play? I've had good results with Krylon Fusion's Camo colors. It doesn't need to be spray specific to minis. I find that Army Painter, for example, really sucks ass.

Why do you participate in this hobby? At the end of the day its because you enjoy it and to have fun. If painting isn't fun for you, why do it?

That being said, unpainted models do detract from the atmosphere of the game. Also, could you push through the birthing pains of learning to paint (even doing something extremely basic like dipping), you may find that it will eventually make the hobby even more fun for you.

lucasbuffalo wrote:
Different color primers might be a nice start. I'll hafta order it online or something though, as my FLGS only sells black and white :/

Walmart, way cheeper. most $3-5 spary work fine. Then dip a brush in a different color, wipe off the paint by brushing it on cardboard/paper, now run the brush over the part of madel you want to stand out (3-5 time you will have to dip, wipe off, brush model). This will give OK results to uniform armys like SM or even Nids, not so much with Orks.

snake wrote:Why do you participate in this hobby? At the end of the day its because you enjoy it and to have fun. If painting isn't fun for you, why do it?

I can fully appreciate this stance, however, try seeing it from the other person's eyes. I buy my models one box at a time, and paint up *everything* I own before I buy more stuff. I've been working on my IG for over a year now and am still only sitting at 1390pts because I absolutely refuse to field unpainted stuff. I feel it detracts massively from the enjoyment of the game if there is just two forces of the same anonymous grey and/or black facing off against each other. If I'm not having fun because of the unpainted status of your army, why should I play you? If I can put this amount of effort into my models (and I fully realise I'm in the minority) then why can't my opponent(s) at the very least put down three colours and a base?

As has been already stated in this thread, there are plenty of methods, techniques, products, even services that can help you 'cheat' or even paint your models for you. There's also the vast, vast resource of the internet that is populated with tons of people who will provide hints, tips and tutorials on the very basics like drybrushing through to advanced techniques such as glazing, NMM, blending etc.

Again, simply saying 'I'm not good enough' doesn't cut it. Nothing worth doing is ever easy.

L. Wrex

I understand why you wouldn't wanna paint. When I first started 15 years ago I sucked..BAD. i played fantasy dwarfs, and i remember painting Ungrim ironfist. His face was a blob of paint, with two blue specs for eyes, and the rest was solid colors. He looked sorta like this




That's where it all started. Took alot of practice and patience. But now I can do a decent job. Its not GD quality, but most paint jobs I do tend to get alot of compliments from people who don't even play warhammer.

I understand the pain. I played with grey soldiers for a long long time, cause i just wanted to play, cause painting was boring. But eventually, with enough dedication and practice, you turn what you 'have' to do into what you want to do. Just dont give up. Trust me. it'll be rewarding eventually.

lucasbuffalo wrote:I actually do play with them primed. I just considered this "gray" as it's so basic.

But if that makes people happy, then I'm good. lol.

Prime white + wash of whatever color can make your army seem at least decently painted. Prime army color + wash the appropriate accent color if you don't want a white base.

Jaon wrote:My problem is I am actually a decent painter, and have spent in excess of 5 hours on a single terminator librarian 0_0

Painting takes a hell long time, but it pays off. But if you cant thats cool, I like looking at grey models, it makes it simpler to identify their wargear and shows detail better. I wouldnt mind at all fighting a grey army.

That's all? I spend about five hours a night staring at my table

I don't understand why people feel incapable of achieving even a minimal quality paint job on their figures to the extent that grey plastic looks better.

I consider myself a good painter now but I'm under no illusion that there are many people far better than me, but I didn't get to where I am without years of practice and neither did they. My earlier figures were pretty basic paint jobs with little shading or highlighting, crude efforts certainly but that's where most have to start.

What I'm saying is that everyone has to start somewhere, and even if you are a beginner a can of spray, a few washes and some dry brushing can get you quite the bit of the way. That's not asking for artistic talent as such, only patience and care. Certainly no one should be regularly losing detail under paint. With time the rest will follow and you'll experiment and learn new techniques.

I've only ever had 2 fully painted armies. None of my warmachine stuff is painted. Why? I'm lazy.

And I'm much more concerned that my models stay in one piece than they be painted. Broken models annoy the crap out of me.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:

snake wrote:Why do you participate in this hobby? At the end of the day its because you enjoy it and to have fun. If painting isn't fun for you, why do it?

I can fully appreciate this stance, however, try seeing it from the other person's eyes. I buy my models one box at a time, and paint up *everything* I own before I buy more stuff. I've been working on my IG for over a year now and am still only sitting at 1390pts because I absolutely refuse to field unpainted stuff. I feel it detracts massively from the enjoyment of the game if there is just two forces of the same anonymous grey and/or black facing off against each other. If I'm not having fun because of the unpainted status of your army, why should I play you? If I can put this amount of effort into my models (and I fully realise I'm in the minority) then why can't my opponent(s) at the very least put down three colours and a base?

As has been already stated in this thread, there are plenty of methods, techniques, products, even services that can help you 'cheat' or even paint your models for you. There's also the vast, vast resource of the internet that is populated with tons of people who will provide hints, tips and tutorials on the very basics like drybrushing through to advanced techniques such as glazing, NMM, blending etc.

Again, simply saying 'I'm not good enough' doesn't cut it. Nothing worth doing is ever easy.

L. Wrex

This is pretty much the attitude that led me to create this thread in the first place. People who can't have fun playing a game with another nice person because the other person's army isn't painted. It just seems silly to me. I mean, I have essays about my army, poetry, and all kinds of fluff, you don't see me asking for a 3-5 page paper before playing a game. I personally believe army fluff is a big part of the game, the fluff is what got me into the game to begin with. But, to say that you can't play a game with a perfectly agreeable person just because they choose not to do the non-gaming hobby aspects that you think make the game better... seems a bit over the top. I guess you wouldn't have to play me or anyone else for that matter who doesn't enjoy that aspect of the game as much as you, but I just don't see it.

lucasbuffalo wrote:I really get annoyed at the hate all over Dakka about gray armies. I would LOVE to have a nicely painted army. However, I have NO talent. None whatsoever.

Clearly, the talent you possess now is all you will ever have, and hard work and practice will not make you a better painter.

Here is some inspiration for you.

This is one of the first miniatures I painted:


This is my current project:


Hey, I got a little better. That didn't just happen, I worked at it. Anything in life that is worth having is going to require hard work and effort. Keep at it, and you'll get better. Trust me.

My point is, having a gray army doesn't make you a bad person or gamer. I lack the talent to paint it myself, and I lack the cash/opportunity to have some one else paint it. I just hope maybe this message reminds people that a gray army doesn't mean the person is evil.

Sure, and I bet you're the kind of person whose other hobby is kicking puppies for distance.

Lol to Redbeard, great looking models btw! That dwarf is really sexy .

But yeah, I'm not giving up, my main issue is that I'm embarrassed of what I do paint. If my Space Wolves could talk, I'm pretty sure my blood claw would flip me the bird after seeing his paint job. My point is, I still like the game, but dislike the attitude that a lack of paint shows that I don't care about the hobby or my army or am a "bad" gamer.

Puppy punting is on my list of hobbies.
(JK, I love my dog.)

lucasbuffalo wrote:Lol to Redbeard, great looking models btw! That dwarf is really sexy .

But yeah, I'm not giving up, my main issue is that I'm embarrassed of what I do paint. If my Space Wolves could talk, I'm pretty sure my blood claw would flip me the bird after seeing his paint job. My point is, I still like the game, but dislike the attitude that a lack of paint shows that I don't care about the hobby or my army or am a "bad" gamer.

Puppy punting is on my list of hobbies.
(JK, I love my dog.)

One question - are you starting too 'big'? If you aren't good at painting, take time to get the basics down first. You're painting Space Marines, which is a good place to practice. Lots of broad, flat areas and defined edges.

Try a simple attampt at armour first. Paint them grey, give them a wash of badab black, then slowly paint grey back over the armour but avoiding the recesses which are not black due to the wash. Don't worry about making mistakes, especially with Space Marines. If there are a couple of duds in there while getting the basic techniques down, they'll blend into squads when they're on the table anyway.

Try to avoid things like skin and fur until you get the basics of the armour down. Even if you only have the basics of the armour painted, and the rest (things like wolf tails, bare heads, etc) repainted black, the army will look a lot btter on the table. Any army painted consistently, even to an average level, looks very good on the table.

Another thing is, if you don't want to keep rebuying models, get yourself some Simple Green All Purpose cleaner. It's perfect for paint stripping plastic models. Just drop the models you don't like in there, and take it out later, wash it with water and a toothbrush and repaint it. In fact, you could even practice this way. Buy a box of push fit Space Marines, paint them, if you aren't happy, strip them and repaint them. That way you don't ruin your 'good' models, and you have some models to test painting techniques on.

Rofl @ twistedsister.

Also,
Redbeard you are a beast. That is very scary stuff.

I just watched a video on the Army Painter's website store. It was truely informative. It did focus on their product line but I love thier primers and it does speed up painting armies alot. Their dip also turns base coated minis into nice table top stuff. I wished they would have shown a last step using a matt finish to tone down the gloss. If you don't think you can paint, please watch these. real simple stuff..


http://www.thearmypainter.com/

@OP:

Don't try and paint because others told you that you must, or because they said " 'I lack the skills or time required to learn' isn't a good enough excuse," those aren't good reasons and you'll only end up hating that aspect of the hobby.

Paint stuff when you feel you want to. Start small and build up from there. Tiny, insignificant things are good steps forward. Paint the pauldron trim, or that flat part on the top of the backpack. Anything works. And don't let HAAC gamers who demand painted armies get you down. Don't play them (they'll probably refuse to play you anyway). Find people with whom you enjoy playing, and have fun with the hobby. That's all that really matters in the end.

I mean hell, I face opponents who field unlabeled paper circles as units, in games using scrounged household items as terrain, and we have a barrel of fun. It's all about how you treat the hobby.

I really appreciate the feedback, and I'm working on my marines again. They still suck, but I found one of my minis from when I started and there is some improvement (I can still see logos for example, lol) so I'll keep at it, when I feel I'm ready, and hope for the best.
Thanks all,
Luke

(P.S. Feel free to PM any easy starter material for painting such as the VERY cool one above. Most tutorials I find are way over my head.
Also, Loki, is Simple green re-usable?)

I love painted armies.

You want to play games no matter what. Some people want to play against painted armies no matter what. Throwing out absolute phrasing like "there is no excuse" is just silly. People have their preferences, and nobody has any right to enforce their particular version of the game on anybody, beyond the basic rules and any tournament/event rules that might apply. Life is way too short to be told what to do during your free time... we all get enough of that during work/education/whatever the hell else Dakkaites are doing these days.

lucasbuffalo, PM sent.

I have a large necron army, about half painted so far, that i've been working on for years. Necrons aren't too bad to paint, and are hard to completely screw up.

My Orks are another story. I've been painting one boyz unit (31 models -both nob types) for upwards of a year, painting with what time my kids will allow me. 13 months later- 3 left, and half a trukk...

I would rather play a grey horde than not play. I do love playing a nicely painted foe (and his army ) but i'll not deny a game for unpainted troops. Non wysiwyg bugs me more, as melta guns have a habit of becoming flamers..

I'm not lazy. I'm painting my rump off. It just takes about 5 hours per model for me, not counting constant interruptions.

My 1250 pt games also take about 4 hours for similar reasons

*edit for spelling*

I'd paint them even if their bad, just in case a tournament comes up where your models must be painted

That's not really a good reason to do it either, but may act as a catalyst to get you started on it though.

Simple solution is why do you want to play to being with? The answer being an obvious because you wanted to for whatever reason the same applies to everything you have done or will ever do. Want to paint well? Practice, get some cheap army men and paint the hell out of them to get some basic techniques down. Don't care about it at all? Don't have to paint. No one is holding a gun to your head telling you you must do it.

One thing to remember is you do not have to do every single technique you have read or heard about from the start. Start off with a couple then once you think you're ready move onto another. Start giving yourself a new challenge each time you start painting something. Eventually you'll be able to look back and see how much you have improved. The most important thing in the end is if you're happy with it, not everyone else.

Redbeard screw the Wazdakka model! Ur dwarf is pure epicness i don't know what it is about it but hot damn i love it! It really got it's own.... charm!
btw. Your Wazdakka is pretty awesome!

Anyway OP. I know how you feel. When i started out this game as Tau my painting skills were so bad that it was embarrassing to even show them puplic. I was so mad at myself that i trew my 3th edition battleforce under my bed. And now almost 10years later i found it again when i was cleaning and thought i could try it agian? I painted a single mini just for fun. It still sucked but instead of the embarrassing feeling i had when i was younger i wanted to compete with myself in making the next model more awesome then the last! Now i have gotten pretty decent. Even my friends is amazed at my speed to paint that well so fast!.

I know this is a bit of a story but i wanted to point out that instead of feeling embarrassing over your minis then try constantly compete with yourself by making the minis better and better hell i play Ork now and i use around 2hours pr Ork Boy

Hope it helped a bit mate

The ulgy truth is, everybody can paint very fine with training. Some need more than other, some will never reach Golden Demon style, everybody can reach ,,very fine".

Jaon wrote:My problem is I am actually a decent painter, and have spent in excess of 5 hours on a single terminator librarian 0_0

That's not that much for a character model.

I for one dislike grey armies. I think it's just a shame, and that you should still try. However, I respect that you may want to keep them grey for skill reasons. What I really dislike is playing against unpainted armies because my opponent was too lazy to paint, or even assemble his models properly.

In a small tourney once, my space marine opponent took a dozer blade out of his pocket and Blu-tacked it on a grey rhino. It hadn't just fallen off cause there weren't any glue marks...

I think one reason the OP is getting less sympathy than he might expect is because most long time hobbiests have heared variations of "I'm a perfectionist, so painting takes too long" or "I can't make it look good, so I don't bother."

It's not that these are impossible, it just seems to happen far more often than you'd expect, so you start to assume that there's a "real" reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dark Scipio wrote:The ulgy truth is, everybody can paint very fine with training. Some need more than other, some will never reach Golden Demon style, everybody can reach ,,very fine".

There are some people without the fine motor control to physically hold/control a paintbrush. They're going to be a pretty tiny minority though.