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Indeed. Before singling out any specific unit and critiquing them, one must think how they fit in the overall army composition. My list already has sufficient amount of anti-mech. 3 Celestians squads each with 2 meltaguns, 2 Battle Sister squads eachwith 1 meltagun, 3 Exorcists, and 3 Eviscerators. On top of that, Battle Sisters can use Hand of the Emperor to assault vehicles with Str5.

The reason why I shoot flamers over inferno pistols is because most of the time Seraphims are hunting infantry. Also, flamers are much cheaper than inferno pistols, allowing me to allocate points to other units. Even without inferno pistols, Seraphims are still effective against vehicles. Don't forget they all have krak grenades and if the needs arrive, they could use Hand of the Emperor to assault rear armor with Str5. On top of that, the Veteran Sister Superior is equipped with an Eviscerator, which acts as a chain fist.

Battle report updated to Turn 3.


@Fetterkey:

Actually, SabrX also runs Witch Hunter Immo-spam, but I feel the list he used in this battle is better. It's got more offense with Divine Guidance rending sisters and a couple of fast hitters who can either tarpit or hit-and-run a unit to death. His seraphims also alleviate the rhino-rush syndrome somewhat. With pure immo-spam, you take out the transports and he's in trouble without his mobility. However, with seraphims, he can still get around even after his vehicles are gone. IMO it is a top-tier army.

In my list, the dreads may seem like support, but once the enemy get close, guess what? Yes, my dreads are going to assault you and lock up your uber-assault units. Meanwhile, my knights can concentrate on the rest of you army or counter-assault your units locked in combat with my nemesis force weapons. The only solution to it (besides trying to wreck all those dreads/vendreads in combat, which isn't as easy as it looks) lies in hit & running out of combat. Thus, seraphim sisters (as well as fiends of Slaanesh daemons) are the perfect counter to my dreads.

A very interesting game. Can't say Im surprised as Sisters could get their 3+ invuln every round, plus furios charge probably killed you in the end. Maybe replace crowe and some dreads for Draigo and guard??

SabrX wrote:Indeed. Before singling out any specific unit and critiquing them, one must think how they fit in the overall army composition. My list already has sufficient amount of anti-mech. 3 Celestians squads each with 2 meltaguns, 2 Battle Sister squads eachwith 1 meltagun, 3 Exorcists, and 3 Eviscerators. On top of that, Battle Sisters can use Hand of the Emperor to assault vehicles with Str5.

The reason why I shoot flamers over inferno pistols is because most of the time Seraphims are hunting infantry. Also, flamers are much cheaper than inferno pistols, allowing me to allocate points to other units. Even without inferno pistols, Seraphims are still effective against vehicles. Don't forget they all have krak grenades and if the needs arrive, they could use Hand of the Emperor to assault rear armor with Str5. On top of that, the Veteran Sister Superior is equipped with an Eviscerator, which acts as a chain fist.

That, and Seraphim have the huge advantage of Hit and Run. Combined with invul saves and the BoSL, they have the potential to tie an enemy squad up infefinitely by charging and re-charging it over and over again, sparing your Battle Squads some hurt. Alternatively, they can use Hit and Run to slingshot themeselves towards softer enemy units, like, say, Devastators. They are probably the most flexible unit in the Witch Hunters list, and very enjoyable to use.

Liking the report so far, looking forward to the rest of it.

Battle repot now completed!

W00T! I'm glad I was proven wrong!

This game, I think, illustrates all of the strengths of Seraphim that were outlined several posts up. Not only were they pretty competent in close combat, but the combination of invulnerability and hit-and-run meant that they could bounce across the board and attack wherever they were needed.

Great game from the both of you. I eagerly await jy2's thoughts on the new Knights and how to use them.

Yeah, they were just sic this game and the perfect foil to my dreadnoughts. After playing against them this time, my eyes have opened up as to what a great unit they are. Definitely worthy of the MVP award for the Sister's army.

BTW, I made some minor mistakes in the batrep and will be going back to change it slightly.

The Sisters would have properly annihilated had they used their full anti-psyker power.

+ good game BTW, nicely painted Sisters as well.

Post-game Analysis now posted.

Excellent battle report jy2!

After turn 3, I thought the game would end in a clear victory for the Grey Knights. You shut down my vehicles early on and had complete control over two objectives while threatening to contest middle objective. I couldn't kill a single venerable dreadnought. In the end my Seraphims saved the day by keeping two of your scoring units off your objective and getting rid of the Dreadnought contesting my corner objective.

Despite the outcome of this game, I still think the new Grey Knights is extremely competitive. Rifledreads will make mincemeat out of most MSU armies. Being able to move combat speed in Rhinos and firing Psycannons out of two fire points is also effective anti-mech.

Good game. I look forward to having a rematch against your Grey Knights.

Very nice read, as a SoB it is good to see thae GK matchup. I cannot help but be a bit worried at how brutal his shooting was on Turn 1 even with cover for most of the vehicles.

One thing I noticed, which I may be incorrect on. I was under the impression Shield of Faith enabled a WH player to nullify a psychic power on a 5+ provided a SoB squad was within its area of effect. Given that, would cleansing flame only have one chance to be nullified, on a 5+?

I would rather each squad individually had a chance to nullify it for themselves (it smoothes out the bell curve of damage) but I do not think that is the case. A moot point in this case since they both rolled a 5+.

Also, Hammerhand is awesome against SoB - S 5 attacks are a brutal and quick way to put enough wounds into a SoB unit that is fails a lot of its 3++ saves.

jy2 wrote:he is using Imperial Armour II rhinos. Why? Because they have special searchlights which automatically illuminate 1 vehicle.

Very interesting batrep, but I had to stop reading and go check this out, it sounds like the neatest trick ever. Are you sure it's in IA2 though, because I can't find it?

The reason why I use IA2 Rhinos is because they are more up-to-date in point cost, fire points, default smoke, and search lights. The IA2 uses vehicle wargear from the Witch Hunter's codex. Old school search lights automatically illuminates targets with unlimited range. This is why I let jy2 go first.

@SabrX:

Yeah, I thought I had you after the first 2 turns of shooting. Then again, you did a good job of destroying my mobility as well, going for the easier rhinos instead of the much harder to kill dreads (due to cover and better armor).

Fighting your sisters has made me think about getting warding staves for my army. Though it is expensive per (20-25pts), the times that I've used them, I think I've saved about 40-80pts of knights each time, depending on how long they stay locked in combat for.

Yeah, this type of grey knight army will definitely give MSU armies problems, though long-fang spam won't be hurt as much. I'm sure you will face my knights again.


@calypso2ts:

Yeah, my shooting is indeed worrisome for mech-spam armies. Honestly, I felt I could've done even more damage but I got a number of stunned/shaken results, reduced to shaken only due to extra armor. On the opposite end, SabrX damage rolls were golden, penetrating and destroying almost every armor that he hit except the vendreads (who survived thanks to their venerableness).

The way we played Shield of Faith was that each and every unit affected got a chance to nullify it. Thus, both the celestians and battle sisters each had a chance to nullify Cleansing Flame against them, and they each rolled a '6' to successfully nullify. Now after looking at the WH codex again, it appears you are right and we played it wrong. Well, that could be both good and bad for sisters.

Hammerhand is a really good power. Unfortunately for me, I forgot to use it on several occasions.

One part of this report I really like is it is a great argument for Seraphime squads. I cut them from my list to go pure mech a little while back, but I think I might bring them back into it. There are a few times I wished I had a Hit and Run assault unit that could save my SoB from just dying miserable.

Nice report as always! Good to see the new GKs in action.

Thanks. I'm sure you'll be seeing a lot of them soon. It'll be interesting to see my knights against your wolves. May the shootiest army win.

Bjorn FTW! Going first rules in a shoot out!

Hmm, this may be a quick Judgement, but I feel that it is as I predicted.

Witch Hunters are a good counter to Grey Knights.

Great battle report by the way. Nice to see them in action!

@Reecius:

BTW, Coteaz, a character that many will take, allows you to re-roll the Seize the Initiative roll....or force the opponent to re-roll his Seize the Initiative roll. Not that that will affect Bjornwolves too much....but it will against Vect's DE.

@grayspark:

Sisters are a good counter to any army with assaulty/power weapon units. But wait til they face an Inquisition-based dreadnought GK army. It'll be quite a different fight then.

But as long as they take seraphims against dreads, it'll always be a competitive, close match. Only time will tell....when the actual GK army comes out.

I cant help but think even with the flubbing of CC the GKs did a great job. I think if you had used cleansing flame instead of forgetting it you would have killed that extra sister or two and it would have made a world of difference. Your choice of hammerhand on Crowe is one that I would have never made. You played well, jy2 ,against a hard army. I love how your army is painted SabrX and wish some of the people I play had armies painted that nicely. Great battle rep you two and looks like one heck of a game. Thanks for posting.

xlightscreen wrote:Every time a user post a future GK army list without the codex being officially realized. A little kitten is flayed alive.

BUT tell then GO GK!?

I sat in the game shop for an hour last night just reading the GK codex drooling over the Paladins. I planned out a 1500 list while talking to the store owner; he just wants to know how many boxes of Paladins I'm going to buy.

@Zonder:

Those were all mistakes on my part - forgetting to cast Hammerhand and Cleansing Flame on a number of occassions. Casting Hammerhand with Crowe was also another blunder on my part.

Despite all the mistakes I made with the psychic powers, that probably wasn't my downfall. What killed me were my knights failing in assault, even in a few battles where his canoness and seraphims were not invulnerable.

If you like this report, I've got another one. It's a rematch against SabrX but this time, he's brought Mechdar!



@Eugee:

Paladins are another unit that I need to try out. They seem like a fun unit. Just make sure you protect them with land raiders.

Painful read way too many... I forgets.

Yeah, it was a new codex and army. I also have a tendency to rush things and play quickly, especially when I am thinking about what I will be doing in advance (and what my opponent will probably be doing as well). If I slow down and take my time, I make less of these mistakes.

Thank you for the report.

I just wanted to say that Sisters army was amazing, and kudos to the great visual ways of representing damage. Very impressive!

SabrX's looks like a pretty legit SOB player.

Also looks like yall have a pretty cool gaming group wherever you live.

nice batrep

I'm not really surprised that SoBs beat you. They're very, very strong against MEQs.

Couldn't help but wince every time you mentioned forgetting Hammerhand. Do you feel like the small squad sizes were a hindrance?

Smitty0305 wrote:SabrX's looks like a pretty legit SOB player.

Also looks like yall have a pretty cool gaming group wherever you live.

nice batrep

West coast, baby.

Amaya wrote:I'm not really surprised that SoBs beat you. They're very, very strong against MEQs.

They are, that's for sure. What they do have problems with, though, are MSU shooty armies since the majority of their shooting is mid to short range. If not for his seraphims, I think it would have been a strong GK victory.

bhsman wrote:Couldn't help but wince every time you mentioned forgetting Hammerhand. Do you feel like the small squad sizes were a hindrance?

Yeah, I'm a noob. I need to slow down and take my time. On the bright side, I will get better, though I guess that really isn't good news for my opponents.

No, regarding small sizes, I feel quite the opposite. Some of the most competitive lists out there - MSU lists, or Multiple Small Unit lists - consists of maximum firepower and minimal-sized squads. What they lack in squad size, they make up for by have more squads instead. That is the current trend in competitive gaming.