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SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Typically, a power gamer isn't someone who scrutinizes your every move to make sure you aren't cheating, because they tapdance on the line of cheating themselves. Typically, my experience with power gamers are the guys who have methodically calculated everything, to exclusion of the actual point of the game: fun.

Sorry but methodically calculating everything is just the way my mind works, some of us can not stop our minds from running the calculations.

That said, I still have fun when I play and I like to play by the rules.

I do not know, maybe it is just me that likes to stick to the rules.

Jubear wrote:

Noir wrote:

Kris221 wrote:Does anyone else have the same problem of power gamers totaly ruining your games, Bringing up ever little rule! Qestioning every little movment! Telling you that your doing everything wrong!.....

Wait... What, it's power gaming to play by all the rules?

lol casuals think that the rules just get in the way.

Do we?

as a casual player I find that having rules are important. May not be as fastidious at interpreting them as you but a system is necessary.
Nope I don't know all the rules by rote, nope the same for the army books.
Yes I will be slow and rubbish at the game and yes it is only a bit of fun with toy soldiers. Which is why sometimes a bit of common sense and flexibility is required
so the game doesn't get bogged down by lawyering.

I assume that is what the OP is getting at.

There is no need to belittle a non competitive player.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

Jubear wrote:

Noir wrote:

Kris221 wrote:Does anyone else have the same problem of power gamers totaly ruining your games, Bringing up ever little rule! Qestioning every little movment! Telling you that your doing everything wrong!.....

Wait... What, it's power gaming to play by all the rules?

lol casuals think that the rules just get in the way.

Do we?

as a casual player I find that having rules are important. May not be as fastidious at interpreting them as you but a system is necessary.
Nope I don't know all the rules by rote, nope the same for the army books.
Yes I will be slow and rubbish at the game and yes it is only a bit of fun with toy soldiers. Which is why sometimes a bit of common sense and flexibility is required
so the game doesn't get bogged down by lawyering.

I assume that is what the OP is getting at.

There is no need to belittle a non competitive player.

That's a great point, and reminds me of a time when a mod here jumped about 6.6 miles down my throat about "labelling people" when I mentioned the term "Rules Lawyer".
Well this spanker thinks he's awesome because he labels people "casuals"

Your poll is either "Jerks ruin my game" or "You're a jerk" based on your OP.

Might wish to broaden your poll to be more useful.

Also, I'm willing to bet $5 that you ran into someone who is literate with the rules and was trying to help you learn to follow them. And that you object.

Kris221 wrote:Does anyone else have the same problem of power gamers totaly ruining your games, Bringing up ever little rule! Qestioning every little movment! Telling you that your doing everything wrong!.....

You do know where you are, right?

Get ready to be bit if you jump into a Shark tank only to complain to the Hammerheads about the Great Whites.

As you can see, the majority of the people here completely missed your point. There is difference between a person who plays by the rules and a WAAC player, and you are describing WAAC players. I get that. The "competitive" players here are thinking you are talking about them. They are just misunderstanding what you are trying to convey.

Luckily there aren't any players like this at my local store. People want to win, sure, but no one questions every single movement. Well, there is one guy, but he is getting to be like that lately. I need to help him realize that the other players in the store are starting to not want to play with him anymore.

I don't understand what a power gamer is.

I don't 'play to win',
I play to have fun and try to win while doing so.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Typically, my experience with power gamers are the guys who have methodically calculated everything, to exclusion of the actual point of the game: fun.

...but that's part of the fun I take from 40k...

Kris221 wrote:Does anyone else have the same problem of power gamers totaly ruining your games, Bringing up ever little rule! Qestioning every little movment! Telling you that your doing everything wrong!.....

Your poll sucks. Maybe next time make there actually be two things that you can vote for?

So playing by the rules is 'Power Gaming' these days eh? Interesting.

I also love the fact that you can select both options in the poll. Kinda defeats the purpose of the poll really, but given the OP doesn't seem to understand what 'Power Gaming' actually is, it's hardly a surprise.

In fact, thinking about it more... asd..a#*.s... oh... n00t againM;'...

[TRANSMISSION INTERRUPT]
[BEGIN NEW TRANSMISSION]

The OP is 100% spot on! Those that attempt to correct you on your rules knowledge, who demand you measure your movements accurately and who demand to know what various units in your army do are clearly power gamers! And as we all know, power gamers are quite possibly one of the most reprehensible groups known to man.

Did you know that right now, as we speak, there are groups of Power Gamers fighting in Libya for Gaddafi! Yes! It's true. A fellow casual gamer told me, and casual gamers are incapable of lying (I should know, I'm a casual gamer!). What's more - Casual Gamers often have a carbon footprint several hundred thousand million times higher than a casual gamer! That means that Power Gamers are destroying the very planet we live on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

We must rally to put an end to the menace of Power Gamers! Their Neo-fascist Commie-Nazi anarchist terrorist global-warming-causing methods must be stopped before the world is stripped of its purity. Only people like you and me - casual gamers, the very paragon of God's Creation - can stop this scourge from destroying Earth!

Rally to me my brothers! We shall wipe them from existence!!

- This message brought to you by the Dakka Casual Gaming Mafia - 'Cause winning is for losers!

[END NEW TRANSMISSION]
[TRANSMISSION INTERRUPT CEASE]

..Aas34$32.. ih... gah!

I hate it when the DCGM hijack my posts...

HMBC, have I ever told you that I loved you?

Jubear wrote:lol casuals think that the rules just get in the way.

well the rulebook does say that the rules are not important.

rules lawyers and WAAC players I would personally label under power gamers and yes they do ruin my games, somebody who sits and nitpicks every single rule twisting it and stretching it to stupid levels to gain advantages yet missing THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE, is someone I would never want to waste my time with.

and WAAC players, doing everythin in there power, cheating, optimizing list builds, and rules lawyering to win a game of toy soldiers, there basically warmachine players who transfer there donkey-cave abilities to 40k.

the problem is with the rules as well though, games like 40k, fantasy, flames of warhammerepic40k and wamahordes open themeselves to these types of gamers because they are poorly written rulesets that are easy to abuse.

you start getting into rulesets like disposable heroes, hail caeser and black powder that from the very start set themseleves firmly as casual systems and you find these gamers unable to function, they are unable to rules lawyer systems based on historical activities, and unable to power game when the pts costs and army structures are so well balanced.

Stella Cadente wrote:

Jubear wrote:lol casuals think that the rules just get in the way.

well the rulebook does say that the rules are not important.

Which is wrong. A game itself (of any medium, be it a videogame, board game, sport or whatever else) is only a collection of rules. Without rules, the game itself ceases to exist.

Fafnir wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:

Jubear wrote:lol casuals think that the rules just get in the way.

well the rulebook does say that the rules are not important.

Which is wrong. A game itself (of any medium, be it a videogame, board game, sport or whatever else) is only a collection of rules. Without rules, the game itself ceases to exist.

I think what it means is that the rules aren't the answer to everything, there will always be grey areas that the players will have to fix themselves in a logical calm way, and that RAWing the rules and bending them to your advantage isn't the way, and it also encourages players to use there imaginations, to think outside the rules, make up there own special rules, or there own units, ally armies together, as long as everyone is happy at the end of the day that is all that is important.

in the end the rules are only giudelines to help you play from Ato B, its up to you and your opponent to add C to Z

and you don't need rules for a game to exist, when you were a kid flicking paper balls at plastic soldiers on your moms dining table with a mate or with your dad you were playing a tabletop game that had no rules at all, yet it existed did it not?

Stella Cadente wrote:
and you don't need rules for a game to exist, when you were a kid flicking paper balls at plastic soldiers on your moms dining table with a mate or with your dad you were playing a tabletop game that had no rules at all, yet it existed did it not?

Actually, it did. You just failed to notice them.

I have mixed feelings on this subject. So I checked both boxes on the vote ^-^.

But the problem comes with my roommate, they come from a good line of "I didn't remember can I go back on this.". Which is ok for awhile, but it starts getting annoying after I wiped half a squad then he just then realizes he has a ability to save it and wants to go back.

Now I'm not a overly competitive gamer (I'll drop a ordinance blast on my white shields in close combat any day.) but I do believe that knowing the rules is part of being a better war gamer. If I miss something on my turn I do grumble but I avoid the "can I go back on this turn" as much as possible.

Fafnir wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:
and you don't need rules for a game to exist, when you were a kid flicking paper balls at plastic soldiers on your moms dining table with a mate or with your dad you were playing a tabletop game that had no rules at all, yet it existed did it not?

Actually, it did. You just failed to notice them.

*headesk* you know what nevermind, just go back under your bridge, and while you are there read the most important rule in the 40k rulebook, if you don't agree with that then you don't agree to any of the rules past that one meaning your making your own points invalid.

Stella Cadente wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:
and you don't need rules for a game to exist, when you were a kid flicking paper balls at plastic soldiers on your moms dining table with a mate or with your dad you were playing a tabletop game that had no rules at all, yet it existed did it not?

Actually, it did. You just failed to notice them.

*headesk* you know what nevermind, just go back under your bridge, and while you are there read the most important rule in the 40k rulebook, if you don't agree with that then you don't agree to any of the rules past that one meaning your making your own points invalid.

Okay, I see you're having trouble understanding my point (although you don't have to assume someone's a troll just because of that).

The kid playing the game flicking the paper balls at the plastic soldiers (can't say I ever did that) did give his game rules. First, the goal of the game was to hit the plastic soldiers. Second, the use of the paper balls and the plastic soldiers. Those are rules.

That alone is enough rules to constitute the game. You may define the rules as you go, and you may even change them as you go, but if they don't exist at all, then there is no game.

karlosovic wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

Jubear wrote:

Noir wrote:

Kris221 wrote:Does anyone else have the same problem of power gamers totaly ruining your games, Bringing up ever little rule! Qestioning every little movment! Telling you that your doing everything wrong!.....

Wait... What, it's power gaming to play by all the rules?

lol casuals think that the rules just get in the way.

Do we?

as a casual player I find that having rules are important. May not be as fastidious at interpreting them as you but a system is necessary.
Nope I don't know all the rules by rote, nope the same for the army books.
Yes I will be slow and rubbish at the game and yes it is only a bit of fun with toy soldiers. Which is why sometimes a bit of common sense and flexibility is required
so the game doesn't get bogged down by lawyering.

I assume that is what the OP is getting at.

There is no need to belittle a non competitive player.

That's a great point, and reminds me of a time when a mod here jumped about 6.6 miles down my throat about "labelling people" when I mentioned the term "Rules Lawyer".
Well this spanker thinks he's awesome because he labels people "casuals"

Highly offensive post removed. Do not post god awful crap like this on Dakka in future.

Stella Cadente wrote:and WAAC players, doing everythin in there power, cheating, optimizing list builds, and rules lawyering to win a game of toy soldiers, there basically warmachine players who transfer there donkey-cave abilities to 40k.

Oh no

H.B.M.C. wrote:So playing by the rules is 'Power Gaming' these days eh? Interesting.

I also love the fact that you can select both options in the poll. Kinda defeats the purpose of the poll really, but given the OP doesn't seem to understand what 'Power Gaming' actually is, it's hardly a surprise.

In fact, thinking about it more... asd..a#*.s... oh... n00t againM;'...

[TRANSMISSION INTERRUPT]
[BEGIN NEW TRANSMISSION]

The OP is 100% spot on! Those that attempt to correct you on your rules knowledge, who demand you measure your movements accurately and who demand to know what various units in your army do are clearly power gamers! And as we all know, power gamers are quite possibly one of the most reprehensible groups known to man.

Did you know that right now, as we speak, there are groups of Power Gamers fighting in Libya for Gaddafi! Yes! It's true. A fellow casual gamer told me, and casual gamers are incapable of lying (I should know, I'm a casual gamer!). What's more - Casual Gamers often have a carbon footprint several hundred thousand million times higher than a casual gamer! That means that Power Gamers are destroying the very planet we live on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

We must rally to put an end to the menace of Power Gamers! Their Neo-fascist Commie-Nazi anarchist terrorist global-warming-causing methods must be stopped before the world is stripped of its purity. Only people like you and me - casual gamers, the very paragon of God's Creation - can stop this scourge from destroying Earth!

Rally to me my brothers! We shall wipe them from existence!!

- This message brought to you by the Dakka Casual Gaming Mafia - 'Cause winning is for losers!

[END NEW TRANSMISSION]
[TRANSMISSION INTERRUPT CEASE]

..Aas34$32.. ih... gah!

I hate it when the DCGM hijack my posts...

This post musthave been written in tiger blood cause it is full of WINNING!!!

+1 to you sir!!

With regards to the poll options being too limited, I cannot help feeling there is actually no need for a poll at all.

It doesn't serve any purpose imho, though I have to agree that since there is one it would have been much better to have more options rather than the polarising ones presented to us.

Noir wrote:

Kris221 wrote:Does anyone else have the same problem of power gamers totaly ruining your games, Bringing up ever little rule! Qestioning every little movment! Telling you that your doing everything wrong!.....

Kris221 wrote:Sorry i thought the whole point in gaming was to have " Fun " Actually enjoy the game, Ive played plenty of gamers that want to win at all cost and play by the rules that dont scruitinise on ever little thing you do making each turn last nearly twice as long, By turn 2 im bored and want to just pack up. Im not having a go at those who are extremely competitive just those that take the game ... Far Far to seriously, Fair play if its worth somthing but not if its a quick friendly game.

This post is very black and white.... I posted in a rage after spending over an hour setting up and getting ready for a " Friendly " game that turned out with me feeling as thou i was being interigated on gaming ability.

These are two totally different thing.

This is a terribly-phrased poll. The wording seems either a) Deliberately chosen to pick a fight (and thus Trolling), or b) So poorly-expresssive of its actual intended meaning that it is actually counterproductive, and will not achieve useful results or seed productive discussion.

As this thread has clearly already demonstrated, being so loose with your terminology, in such a way that your fellow gamers and posters on Dakka can easily think that you are talking about and insulting them, is a sure recipe to create an unpleasant argument.

If the OP wishes to have a useful discussion of gamer behavior or attitude without these arguments and hard feelings, he should carefully consider the phrasing of his question and provide more explanation in the initial post of exactly what he's talking about.

Thread locked.