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High five!
(with your *other* hand)

Wow, this thread very quickly split into a discussion of miniature deisgn and juvenile 1-liners.

As a separate issue from the depiction of women. As to the knock-off miniatures, I don't have a problem with all the "not-____" figures out there. There aren't many that interest me, but as long as there are alot of sci-fi franchises that don't take the effort/interest in licensing their charachters as miniatures, gamers -especially those not interested in the mainstream wargames- will still find ways to play their favorite franchieses.

So these small companies (often run by fans of these franchiess) enrich the hobby by releaseing more and varried figures that aren't GW/PP/BF. Seems like a win-win situation for me.

Green stuff. It's easier to cover boobs than dig in and sculpt 'em. Half my Anima minis got the GS treatment

Eilif wrote:

Not a very well thought out comment. Women can wear body armor just as effectively as men.
How many modern female soldiers and police officers do you see patroling in a sports bra? None, they're wearing uniforms and body armor.

You missed the point, girls don't wear a sports bra just for your pleasure of viewing. Otherwise they would all wear t-shirts. Not all artist when they design of mini's thinks of boob cleavage. Which is what I'm trying to point out. And yes they do wear different armor, you can't slap a male bullet proof vest on a female. It would be like trying to fit a small box around your chest you can fit just barely.

Whatever. There's no point making "female" figures that look exactly like male ones, We have plenty of those already.

I seriously doubt that many gamers are buying Soda Pop models as spanking fodder. If people didn't know there is much better stuff on the WWW for free, they really need to stay in more.

Originality is an overrated virtue, frankly. Lots of people want figures based on anime ideas, and popular media (Scooby Doo, 28 Days, Aliens, Hot Fuzz). They have cultural resonance and wide appeal.

If the proprietors of such media do not want to make wargame models available, it leaves the market open for small companies.

Phayse wrote:I get it, sex sells and all that. We are by and large a male community, and driven by male boob seekiness. Just feel like a bit of a vent as I've been looking at a few minis to paint up. There's some awesome models with some awesome details that would really challenge me. Problem is, they only cover 10% of the mini. The rest is boob. It seems like such a waste. Some of the models have excellent proportions, ruined by little or no details beyond a massive pair of whappers.

I went to the soda pop site (research) and I found only 3 female miniatures. Are these the ones you're citing? Or is there something else I've missed?

I think that minis like these on soda pop are in the minority. Now while there are definitely some models out there with some amount of R content, most of these are done as serious works of art. And although I can't assume everyone on this board is a GW fan, GW's models are 99.9% PG I would have to say.

That's all,
Solorg

Polonius wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:Don't forget the three feet rule. If B cup wytches took to the field, how would the more myopic of us even know we were looking at a woman?

And if there's less than C-cup, why would any man care?

Lets us not forget that the larger-chested lady also desires to slaughter Orcs. I think its a huge leap for womankind that their miniature representatives on the battlefield actually get to KILL STUFF. Its a sight better than lying about at the foot of bejewelled thrones or being flung over shoulders, which is the usual stereotype. Its the difference between Eowyn and Red Sonja. Less clothes, more dakka. Or Choppa rather.

I'm a firm believe in the right of women to conduct violence while wearing very little.

Yeah i can see why some one would complain about this. But most don't mind cause they come for games not breast. This is just to appeal to another group of people

Luco wrote:For some reason I always imagines my marines having a dialogue something like this,
"Brother Artemis, you see that enemy soldier with the massive breasts?"
"Yes Brother, why?"
"I'll take your KP duty if you can manage to put a hole in each"
"[laughs] no sooner said than done."
[pair of gunshots]

"You owe me KP duty"
"Damnit"

Nice !!!!!!

terribletrygon wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:

Mastiff wrote:I have to admit I'm a big fan of Soda Pop, because there are far too many mini companies picking over the same stripped carcass of ideas. Orks and zombies and elves and guys with big guns are a dime a dozen.

Not to mention all the pop media knockoffs. Just in the past 10 days I've seen new releases for not-Beholders, not-The Shadow, not-Chestburster, not-Kickass and not-Kim Jong-il. It's no wonder everyone in the industry jumps in the air whenever someone waves a C&D around. Most of these people would starve if they couldn't use other people's ideas.

You saying that Soda Pop are unique because their models are not pop media knockoffs? As in the company with the range cloned from famous animus? Hahahaha, that's funny.

Because of stuff like not-miku hitsune and not-saber, they are just as guilty as anyone else. And, to be honest, these companies are just cashing into what they know sells, just like the ones that the spam cheesecake minis that make up half of all miniatures ever. Tits and sci-fi/fantasy references. Because most of the Wargaming Community is made up of sad, lonely nerds.

I'm struggling to agree with you for fear of alienating my customer base.

The sentiment is there, but the will to commit is not.

Can everyone please stop buying boobies? You're giving me an anuerism!

O_o

Eh, I don't mind there being female miniatures primarily designed for sex appeal out there. I do mind, however, when that is almost all there is. Not all male models are steroid-ridden shirtless giants, because there is so much more to be done with male characters, and the same regard should apply to the other gender. It is just a waste of potential character types to not do so.

Of course, this is just one of three things that need to die down a bit for a little more flavour in the world of miniatures. The full list being; pin-up style female miniatures, Games Workshop style miniatures and Pop Media clones.

terribletrygon wrote:
You saying that Soda Pop are unique because their models are not pop media knockoffs? As in the company with the range cloned from famous animus? Hahahaha, that's funny.

Because of stuff like not-miku hitsune and not-saber, they are just as guilty as anyone else.

I'm a huge anime nerd and there is not a single Soda Pop character I recognize. None of them look a thing like the two you mentioned.

And, to be honest, these companies are just cashing into what they know sells, just like the ones that the spam cheesecake minis that make up half of all miniatures ever. Tits and sci-fi/fantasy references. Because most of the Wargaming Community is made up of sad, lonely nerds.

That is true. If buyers didn't reward unimaginative sculptors, there would probably be less of them.

Give the people what the want.

I like the Anime Tactics guys.

As to Soda Pop, they're good looking figures, but there's no game for them. Other then that, if you don't like them, you can always get thier dungeon crawl game. THOSE figs don't have the issue that you speak of.

AE ww2 has a few good looking figs as well. You won't like Secrets of the Third Reich, though, so I won't mention that one.

lord_blackfang wrote:

terribletrygon wrote:
Because of stuff like not-miku hitsune and not-saber, they are just as guilty as anyone else.

I'm a huge anime nerd and there is not a single Soda Pop character I recognize. None of them look a thing like the two you mentioned.

There are certainly a bunch of figures that draw from the same archetypes, though. Aya Beat is a sexier Haruka from FLCL, Rin Farrah is a sniper girl in a bikini like Yoko from Gurren Lagann, Isabeau Durand is space Saber with a different hair style, etc.

For me it all comes down to context.

A miniature with giant boobs isn't bad if that's what it's supposed to be. If the rest of the mini and the line it is consistent with what the pin-up model is trying to be then no foul as far as I'm concerned. So Soda Pop minis don't bother me at all. They are what they are trying to be, and no one could ever look at their line and then pretend to be shocked by the look of their ladies. They're supposed to be silly. It's not really my thing, but there's nothing wrong with the company making it. Other good examples of this are Studio McVey's Ar Fiach and Ruby. These models are sexualized, but it fits their context.

What I don't like is when female models are hyper-sexualized in product lines where that doesn't fit. Big example is the Wargames Factory Amazons set. It's not that the models are sexy per se, it's that the designers thought it was more important to make the models look sexy than look like effective warriors. In a line of miniatures where every other figure is designed to look like an effective warrior. Someone posted a naked kneeling slave woman here a while back that provoked the same feeling from me. There was a very effective feeling of anguish coming from the way the face was sculpted, but it was completely undermined by the giant stonking boobs that were clearly there to be sexually appealing. Above the neck, the mini was trying to evoke genuine human sympathy. Below the neck it was an object for the guys.

There's often the assumption that we have to take the sexualization out of female figures in order to not objectify women. And at least from what I've seen from this panel, young women are fine with sexualized women as long as they get to be interesting characters that do interesting things. So my complaint isn't about protecting women, nor is it about hating sex, nor is it about political correctness. It's pure personal pride. A depiction of women that is sexualized in a way that is inappropriate to the context (in any medium) is an insult to me as a male consumer. It's pandering. It's like the artists, designers, and writers worked hard to build a tiny imaginary world for me to escape to, but because I'm male they don't think I can handle a woman that fits the context of the imaginary world. It's an insult to my ability to use my imagination as well as my security in my masculinity, and it always jars me right out of the experience.

Soda Pop minis don't have that problem because their women are consistent with the world they inhabit. And that makes them fine in my book.

^+1

The recent Dark Eldar models are a prime example of looking like a warrior first, and a sexy torture-porn babe second.

There was a similar thread on WAMP recently, but sparked by the output of Kingdom Death (although Soda Pop was also cited as a key offender).

Whilst I'd never say that these companies should not produce the miniatures that they do, their design approach places their miniatures and games in a conceptual place a long way from reality (which is fine: that's what they're doing).

Those who prefer their fighting women to look like they've seen the sharp end, might like the designs I'm producing for Precinct Omega's Skrapyard range, although the range is 40mm, so it won't work as a stand-in for 28mm games.

Here's the Captain of Swords:



R.

Forgetit...

Only thing I want to know about those Sodapop anime girls is where is the game that they are supposed to go to? I like big 'uns.

He said Soda Pop is fine with him, because they fit their native context.

lord_blackfang wrote:

terribletrygon wrote:
You saying that Soda Pop are unique because their models are not pop media knockoffs? As in the company with the range cloned from famous animus? Hahahaha, that's funny.

Because of stuff like not-miku hitsune and not-saber, they are just as guilty as anyone else.

I'm a huge anime nerd and there is not a single Soda Pop character I recognize. None of them look a thing like the two you mentioned.

And, to be honest, these companies are just cashing into what they know sells, just like the ones that the spam cheesecake minis that make up half of all miniatures ever. Tits and sci-fi/fantasy references. Because most of the Wargaming Community is made up of sad, lonely nerds.

That is true. If buyers didn't reward unimaginative sculptors, there would probably be less of them.

Ummm I think he is talking about this
not Saber
https://store.sodapopminiatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=37&osCsid=ma7e4vmapo2b4v82hmrrs6hvs6

Not Miku
https://store.sodapopminiatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=34&osCsid=ma7e4vmapo2b4v82hmrrs6hvs6

although IMO, I don't really see why it's called a Miku clone, doesn't exactly look like one
The not Saber i can understand

That's a huge stretch, IMO. They don't look much alike other then the basic concept; "anime girl with big sword," "anime girl artificial musician." Might as well call every aged wizard a Gandalf ripoff.

Now here's a proper ripoff (I dunno what that text is about.)

Hasslefree's range doesn't include rip-offs. It includes homages.

The vital difference being...

...well...

...um...

Anyway, it's clearly quite different.

R.

They aren't rip-offs because there's no deceit involved. it's plainly obvious what they are. Calling them 'rip-offs' makes it sound like they are illegal recasts or something, it's almost offensive to the effort that goes into producing them.

We all know what they are. We're not stupid. This is a niche hobby. What's the problem? I love having figures that are characters from TV and film, beats the hell out of having to convert them yourself at great effort.

Sometimes I think the continual discussion about 'IP' go to people's heads, like it really matters.

I love my Shaun of the Dead, Buffy, and Firefly figures. I'm glad that companies somewhere do these so I'm not struggling to find figures for RPGs and the like.

Grot 6 wrote:In case you didn't know it yet, thats Anime in a nutshell. Fun, popcorn art, that your going to forget in five minutes anyway. You don't like it? don't buy it. You don't get to demonize them just because "You don't like it in context of..."

Seriously, You don't like it. I get that. I don't get that your attacking Sodapop for no other reason then, you don't like big ta ta's. Then to continue on like they killed your catgirl or something? I'm not seeing the insult at all.

Step 1: Check the flag that's next to my user name.
Step 2: Read my post again.
Step 3: Let's all pretend this embarrassing little misunderstanding never took place.

@ lord_blackfang
I agree, It's a huge stretch
how about scibor totally not space marines?

Rip Off isn't always bad

Wow. This took off.

Just to verify a couple of points. It isn't a rant about the sexualisation of women, or any kind of feminist issue. I don't know where "Not _____" discussions sprang from, but it's not to do with that, although there was a comment earlier about certain anime styles having cultural resonance, so that may well have popped it.

It's simply a vent about the level of detail on a mini. If you want massive knockers festooning your mini, then that is entirely up to you, but when they're the only detail on the mini, then I kind of feel a little "bleh" about them. They obviously sell, but I can't really find a lot of merit there due to the lack of any other detail on some of the minis, but I agree that others do.

This isn't a derision of anyones personal taste - it's simply a tale of woe, in which I try to find a mini matching specific criteria.

I've still to find a decent one apart from a couple of the new GW wyches. In most cases, the proportions are more sensible, and there's some detail there, but things like faces - especially so with the hasslefree just seem like a blank, with a nose stuck on, there's none of the expression that you can get with mini faces.

There was a pretty disappointing barbarian huntress on CMON the other day. While the male counterpart has a snarl curling on his lips, fur decoration, chainmail textures and other great details, the huntress is topless, with leather chaps. Had she been clad in a similar style to the barbarian, it would have been fab, as proportionally, everything was there!

The search for a well proportion, sensibly attired and well detailed model continues. It's not even of earth shattering importance anymore. More like an exercise in curiosity.

I dunno, from what i have seen Soda Pop mini seems to be fine, but that is just me. I like clean sleek stylings

have you tried reaper minis?

JOHIRA wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:In case you didn't know it yet, thats Anime in a nutshell. Fun, popcorn art, that your going to forget in five minutes anyway. You don't like it? don't buy it. You don't get to demonize them just because "You don't like it in context of..."

Seriously, You don't like it. I get that. I don't get that your attacking Sodapop for no other reason then, you don't like big ta ta's. Then to continue on like they killed your catgirl or something? I'm not seeing the insult at all.

Step 1: Check the flag that's next to my user name.
Step 2: Read my post again.
Step 3: Let's all pretend this embarrassing little misunderstanding never took place.

I read your post. It still says the same thing to me, that your being petty.

Other then that, I removed mine, because I don't feel like spooning with you.

As for misunderstanding? no, My though is still the same on what you wrote there.