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Mannahnin wrote:Why is anyone worried about gunlines in 8th edition? Yes, they were a problem in previous editions. But they suck out loud in 8th. You don't get half VPs for shooting a unit to half strength. You don't get any VPs for a unit that's fleeing at the end as long as it's still on the table. Armies that sit back and shoot are basically pointless in this edition, so why on earth would you need/want a scenario to make shooting even worse?

Not sure where you have been playing, but they've been nothing but devestating from what I've seen. I have made it to one GT so far this year, and of 40+ players, the top 5 placed were Dwarf and Empire gunlines.

djones520 wrote:I have made it to one GT so far this year, and of 40+ players, the top 5 placed were Dwarf and Empire gunlines.

What GT was this? Empire and Dwarves? Not Skaven, DE, or Teclis?

Gunlines do not do so well with the current scenarios. In fact, 2 of them auto-lose (blood and glory, watchtower).

Odominus wrote:

djones520 wrote:I have made it to one GT so far this year, and of 40+ players, the top 5 placed were Dwarf and Empire gunlines.

What GT was this? Empire and Dwarves? Not Skaven, DE, or Teclis?

Gunlines do not do so well with the current scenarios. In fact, 2 of them auto-lose (blood and glory, watchtower).

Yeah, they'll be rough in this one, but gun lines are anything but weak in standard games.

But Skaven didn't come close to placing, DE's were upper middle, and there were no Special Characters so Teclis was out. Of the 4 HE's the best placed was a pure melee army with a Star Dragon and Prince.

It was like the tournament saw what the Internetz had to say, and told it to go feth off.

djones520 wrote:
But Skaven didn't come close to placing

Was this a comped GT? What was the name/url of it?

The real problem with scenario 3 is that the results of that game will be totally and utterly random. The chance of some event in that scenario not favoring one side over the other seem real slim to me.

Yah I hate Janky scenarios that reward random dice rolling due to a mission..

I can see scenario 3 screwing so many people. Glad I just run fantasy 'ard boyz.. 40k one is more enjoyable to play in generally

Scenario 3:

4 – TSUNAMI: The oceans wash away vast chunks of
the world, and have made it hard to see and reach the
enemy. All models movement is halved and when
charging only roll 1 d6 to see how far they charge.


How would this effect units with swift stride special rule? I would assume it would move down to 2d6 and still discard one as you still only get one D6 to charge but swift stride just ups the possibility of rolling well.

Also after reviewing scenario 1 again I think I am gonna still run my tomb king gun line. In addition, I will still deploy in the back corner. Odds of rolling a 2,4,6 kind of suck but a 8, 10, or misfire (aka no limits) are just as good. The dice gods will have me at their mercy. I have decided I wont let the scenario's dictate the list I would like to run. Khalida here I come! (Its just so hard to turn down poison arrows and a 2d6 S4 magic attack that wont let you move if you take a wound! )

I would assume the scenario overrides the swift stride rule. D6 is how far you can charge no matter what.

Also, bringing a gun line might work, but I would definitely think about setting them much closer to your enemy. 3-4 turns with no LOS is not good.

Odominus wrote:I would assume the scenario overrides the swift stride rule. D6 is how far you can charge no matter what.

Also, bringing a gun line might work, but I would definitely think about setting them much closer to your enemy. 3-4 turns with no LOS is not good.

3-4 turns with no line of site gets equaled out because if I place them closer they get killed off in less then that many turns.

Is it just me, or are there A LOT more stores hosting Fantasy 'Ard Boyz than their were 40k?

Finals Scenarios:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=400002a§ion=community&pIndex=3&aId=3900019a&start=4&multiPageMode=true

My gut feeling after the initial readthrough of the final scenarios: not good. They feel like they were written by the 40K staff.

I am surprised tho they released everything for all 3 months.. I like the final semi final mission since thats *Exactly* how I "errata'd" their mission from last year which forced some armies to auto-lose on the first turn

First round of missions no fun! Semi's and the finals missions look normal and more playable. Why so much randomness in the first round?

Well imo, prelims are generally filled with shennigans anyhow.. Might as well make the missions wacky. You have like 500 stores each with between 3-30 people (most with like 9).. With that kind of turn out, the missions rarely matter

Hell last year we even got 4 people from 1 store!

Yea, the semi finals are where it's at. Less gimmicks. 3000pt army up for grabs.

Odominus wrote:Yea, the semi finals are where it's at. Less gimmicks. 3000pt army up for grabs.

Did you all read the same missions I did? 8 KPs for a Rare choice? That's NOT gimicky?

well not sure if i will goto the semis even if i make it as i'm still 4+ hour drive away

well i can say that scenario 3 rolling a 2 on the first turn could really suck.

and semis i wont take this list having 60+ kp army isnt going to happen.

holy crap round 2 secnarios look to be not very fun. Does teclis immune to his first "1" on the chart each turn or does he have to bend over and take it?

Janthkin wrote:

Odominus wrote:Yea, the semi finals are where it's at. Less gimmicks. 3000pt army up for grabs.

Did you all read the same missions I did? 8 KPs for a Rare choice? That's NOT gimicky?

When I say "gimmicky," I am referring to the lists not the scenarios. We can't influence the scenarios. In round 1 of 'Ardz you tend to see more one trick pony lists that have much higher risk/reward "tricks" like teleporting/flying a character on a flank and powerscrolling Purple Sun. If your gamble works, great! If not well you just invested a bunch of points into your gimmick and now your odds of winning just dropped. Too bad this gimmick doesn't work so well against high Init armies. Cross your fingers and hope you play Lizardmen 3 times in a row. Another gimmick I saw last year in particular is the "Turtling Up" in a corner strategy. Pay for lots of defense. Well the scenarios made that gimmick a loser as your deployment is sometimes randomized. And so forth..

The semi's usually have less gimmicky armies in favor of more well-rounded lists. Lists able to accommodate all-comers.

This is based soley on my personal experience.


@Arcadia I wondered this too. I can only assume the scenario takes precedence.

I'm starting to think that using fateweaver cautiously in a few of these senarios are really the best bet.

Also I am going to assume that Horrors use their own miscast(remove D6) as normal as well.

However 8kp for a single fiend is not looking very fun.

Acardia wrote:holy crap round 2 secnarios look to be not very fun. Does teclis immune to his first "1" on the chart each turn or does he have to bend over and take it?

I would imagine that Teclis is not immune to the "1"s, just his first miscast that is rolled by double "6"s.

I will have to change my list completely if for some strange reason I would even make it to the semi's. 3 Eagles are great for messing with your opponent when you only loose 150 VP's, but not when you are going to loose 24 KP's.....

He is immune to any miscast HE causes; if he suffers a miscast for any other reason he is not immune, e.g. cupped hands

8KP for rare? sigh. I might have to change up my list, I only have 2 rares but 90pt models giving 8kp is reeeeediculous. The scenarios will be fun, I think, if I win I win, if not then oh well.

nosferatu1001 wrote:He is immune to any miscast HE causes; if he suffers a miscast for any other reason he is not immune, e.g. cupped hands

Quick question on that. I was hit with some chaos item the other day that causes a miscast on a roll of a doulble or something. Would that be ignored by Teclis or woudl he suffer a miscast? Also, what about the DE item that causes miscast if you cast a spell within 12" or an effect happens with in 12"?

I would say any miscast caused in game for whatever reason, if it is his first for the turn, can be ignored. Miscasts due to the scenario are not ignored. These miscasts are baked into the scenario for game flow and that over rides everything.

interesting rule didnt read that part before

"Teclis MAY ignore the effects fo the first miscast he makes each turn".

so the scenario miscast he cant ignore.

Well, that sounds right. I'll just have to deal with it when it happens.

EDIT: I played a practice game of round 1 for the prelims and it wasn't as bad as I thought. I even rolled a 2 on the artillery dice several turns and I didn't get 2 of the spells I wanted. But it was a pretty good game. I played WoC against my HE. It was basically a CC/Magic fest on both sides. He ended up conceding in round 5.

If anyone is worried about the sight restrictions, I recommend playing a game or two to get used to it. Then you'll be more prepared for game day.

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:Well, that sounds right. I'll just have to deal with it when it happens.

EDIT: I played a practice game of round 1 for the prelims and it wasn't as bad as I thought. I even rolled a 2 on the artillery dice several turns and I didn't get 2 of the spells I wanted. But it was a pretty good game. I played WoC against my HE. It was basically a CC/Magic fest on both sides. He ended up conceding in round 5.

If anyone is worried about the sight restrictions, I recommend playing a game or two to get used to it. Then you'll be more prepared for game day.

Do you need line of sight for charges?

example your roll a 2.

That is 6" of sight.

Enemy is 8" away from your unit. Can you still charge?

Yes, you have to have line of sight. So, if you can't see them to begin with, you can't declare a charge. However, with meeting engagment, we started really close to each other. So, while the first turn we couldn't charge. The second turn we were on top of each other.