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Don't forget that (all?) the sectorial starter boxes are legal non-sectorial lists too.

So you can buy a sectorial if you prefer the look at play it as general.

A very good point, not having an awake day lol

Yes.

Most (if not all) of the sectorial units are available in the main army as well (it's just that the sectorial often has higher numbers of certain units available, and none of certain others).
PanO for example (main) can have ONE (1) of the Aquila guard models, Neoterra (PanO sectorial) can have THREE (3) of them, but can't take any of the regular (and best mainline hackers) kamau units (MI hacker with a BTS-6, yes please).

General Ariadna can use ALL of the caledonian stuff, or the merovingians, yet (for example) Cal and Mero can't use each other's specific units.

Method wrote:I really like the game and the mini's.
Man I even like the rules a lot, the only thing what bothers me are all those extra single miniature rules/options/abbilities.
Thats what makes the rules really hard to play (IMHO) if you only played 40K before.....

I've just been reading the rules. My impression is that there are a lot fewer special rules than 40K.

The main complexity is special ammunition types, which you can just ignore if you like.

I admit I haven't played a game yet.

I have just found this from the CB official forum. Some advice about deployment.

How to deploy



The color dots are just to say which troop is the best for those positions.

Point A. Ok, this is where a line troop with a template gun could be very useful.
If you put there a Kuang Shi, Caledonian Volunteer with chainrifle, Naffatun... the enemy #2 will think twice about turning that corner around. When you have a chainrifle you have to force a close shootout, because it will be a automatic hit roll for the enemy. It is dissuasive: -"Am I going to risk my 30pts para-trooper against that 5 pts. Line Infantry?" thinks the enemy.

Point B. Infiltrators. Hacker infiltrators, minelayer infiltrators... that position is where they can make an effective reactive turn. Inside the building or maybe on a rooftop wiht a Prone marker. No Line of Shoot against him.
Imagine that the red dot #1 is an enemy TAG, if it gets into the red zone, the hacker range, it could get inmovilized. If that Hacker is a TO, there will be nothing there until the TAG gets into the danger zone, if it was a simple cammo marker, nothing could say that it has a Hacker device.

Points C & D. That is where a good shooter/sniper and a medic or Palbot/YaoZao/SalveDrone/Nasmat/Zondbot could be very useful.
As you already know, a good shooter in an elevated position with cover is good, if thta shooter has a HMG or Sniper rifle, is better, if that troop has the benefits of Mimetism/Cammo/DDO/TO Cammo, is better, and if it has a Visor it is GREAT!
But, we can make it even better wit some support, placing a medic or a remote extension of a medic to heal some wounds or recovering that sniper from unconsciousness, it is worthy.

Point E. That is were a Light Infantry with Rifle should be. It will have cover and make the shootout in an optimal range (+3). It is diffcult to succeed in a confronted roll, so, don´t make it harder. Never try to overcome the enemy in a -3 range zone. The linked fireteams with no special weapons should try to deploy in this kind of zones, where the enemy cannot use the distance to attack them.


When I look at the graphic example my mind says "Boy, I need to make a lot of cover..."

BobbaFett wrote:When I look at the graphic example my mind says "Boy, I need to make a lot of cover..."

I'm not super familiar with infinity, but "Lots of Cover" seems to go hand in hand with "Semi-realistic weapon ranges." Especially if a lot of sci-fi stereotypes are in use, railguns and such are likely to have ridiculous ranges at 28mm, and artillery (even WWII and older) would probably be rated at dozens of feet.

BobbaFett wrote:
When I look at the graphic example my mind says "Boy, I need to make a lot of cover..."

Yep, but you can start off with simple blocks that block line of sight - even many stacks of paper back books will make for a decent game.

Damn this game is off the hook......40K eat your heart out

How longer this tread becomes, the more I like this game...

Yesterday I recieved the Ariadna and Haqi starters...
Mann those models are great....

So this weekend a few starter games are on my schedule

Honestly you are correct, to get started just some boxes or books work fine for learning the rules. If you get anything that comes with the infinity box sets that box alone will make two pieces of cover if stood on the side.

The diagram above I would honestly say is a little too open lol. A sniper in the C or D position would have pure domination of the board since it looks like that building is taller then everything up to the #1 mark. You also want some cars or other things in any wide open paths so your guys have something to run up to for cover.

To a 40k or other similar game, a good infinity board should look like a total nightmare. Here is some samples from the infinity community, and remember these are what to shoot for and don't be intimidated since like I said even boxes work great.

quozl wrote:This problem goes away when you have a few more models and a Daylami is a cheap point filler.

So you still have to buy cheap dudes to generate orders. Unfortunate as that's the only thing that turns me off about the game.

robertsjf wrote:

quozl wrote:This problem goes away when you have a few more models and a Daylami is a cheap point filler.

So you still have to buy cheap dudes to generate orders. Unfortunate as that's the only thing that turns me off about the game.

Why would this be a reason not to play the game? Every game has it's meat sheilds and or lower points costs troops that fill out the list and are designed to soak up fire, in this case the cheap troops are used to generate more orders....

Out of curiosity, what games do you play?

You don't HAVE to buy cheap guys, you can plya 300pt games with 10 guys in the the mid range of points. Even cheap guys win games, and in sectoral lists those cheap guys are usually linkable and make them nasty lil buggers.

Delephont wrote:Why would this be a reason not to play the game? Every game has it's meat sheilds and or lower points costs troops that fill out the list and are designed to soak up fire, in this case the cheap troops are used to generate more orders...

Now, it's been years and I only played a few games but here it is:
I'm not adverse to cheap dudes being meat shields, at all. But it seemed like, in Infinity, all of the cheap dudes would huddle in a corner sending good wishes to someone that can actually do something in the form of more orders, not actually on the line getting shot like cheap dudes in other games.

As far as what I play, do you want a (23 year) history or what I have on the shelves right now?

Yep, you don't have to have cheap guys as long as you play around 300 points. At 150 points you really do have to have some cheap models imo otherwise you'll be starved of orders. The game designers say it is designed for 300 points and 300 points is only a starter box and 2 heavy infantry blisters, so if you like the game you'll get there very quickly.

The cheap models don't have to just be cheerleaders though:
In Haqqislam I have 12 point (very cheap) light infantry with a 10.5" flame-thrower template. They rock and are amongst my favourite troopers to use.

There are 16 point light infantry ghulams with a 2 use panzerfaust missile launcher. Those are very fun too. In a 250 or 300 point list a 16 point model is a cheap order but with a 2 use missile-launcher it's also something you will be using and your opponent will have to fear giving AROs to.

I could go to the extreme and take 9 point moderators in my Nomad army for nothing other than order generating. Even then though they still have BS 10 and combi-rifles so they are dangerous. I would be choosing to take them for orders probably, to compensate for taking something really expensive like a TAG. Although I could also make a very nice moderator link team with spitfires and grenade launchers for not that many points. It would be very dangerous too. I don't tend to go the TAG fueled by cheap cheerleaders approach though and in Nomad 300 points I'm more likely to have a lot of 18 ('zero' infiltrators) to 45 (intruder HMG) point models with maybe one or two 10 point combi rifle alguaciles.

Here's the list I played most recently (Combined Armies)
http://www.infinitycreator.com/users/500/army_lists/10983
There's only one model in there that I took as a cheerleader and I only took him because I had 15 points left - the seed soldier.
The daturari is 14 points but he's no cheerleader - he's an impetuous (free order that has to be towards nearest enemy model each turn) smoke throwing martial arts monster, with the lowest level of camo. Again, he's one of my favourite troopers and he's the cheapest thing I can get in Combined Armies.

Here's the Haqqislam list I plan to play next time
http://www.infinitycreator.com/users/500/army_lists/11265

There are only 4 cheap troopers (out of 12). 3 of those are big flame templates, they may provide orders but they also burninate any enemy drop troopers that try to land in my deployment zone or they go hunting camo markers with intuitive attacks. The 4th cheap guy is my lieutenant and he is my lieutenant because he's cheap and costs no SWC. I could instead have taken a heavy infantry guy and made him my lieutenant but I generally prefer cheap fragile lieutenants who can hide and shout orders from the back - it's a personal choice thing, some prefer making the toughest thing they have their lieutenant (and bringing something really tough).

So it's pretty much up to you at 250 and 300 points. At lower levels you will, imo, be order starved if you don't bring some cheap models. Don't think that cheap means boring though, a 9 point combi rifle moderator is not very exciting but a light infantry with a rocket launcher or a big flame thrower is still cool.

quozl wrote:Yep, you don't have to have cheap guys as long as you play around 300 points. At 150 points you really do have to have some cheap models imo otherwise you'll be starved of orders. The game designers say it is designed for 300 points

I see, so there's an army list sweet spot where you can buy moderately priced minis that are worthwhile and have enough order to go around. I guess the problem I saw was that you'd take 1 uber trooper and as many scrubs as you had points left over for. These were typically 150 point games.

robertsjf wrote:But it seemed like, in Infinity, all of the cheap dudes would huddle in a corner sending good wishes to someone that can actually do something in the form of more orders, not actually on the line getting shot like cheap dudes in other games.

You can choose to play that way and that's probably the first strategy that someone will try when they start Infinity.

Take something big, and then as many cheap guys as possible to fuel it.

I don't think it's something that you'll do for long though, and I never do it, not because it's not-fun (I've played against it and enjoyed that) but because it's not really effective.

There's a lot of counters for it:
1) Ignore the big thing and kill the order monkeys. Drop troopers will do it, especially any with heavy weaponry, of which there are a lot. Impersonators will do it. Infiltrating skirmishers are good at it too. Fast moving guys who can go around the big thing will do it nicely - bikes, super-jump Exrah.

2) Kill the big thing. If it's on it's own and un-supported then it'll die to massed fire. It will end up isolated near multiple enemies and you can co-ordinate orders between multiple models in the game - so you can order 4 of your guys to step out and shoot the big thing at the same time. It only gets one ARO so can only attack one of them. It'll go down to weight of fire. It may only need 7s to save against a combi rifle but that means 1/3 hits are a fail and enough shots also means crits are a risk.

3)Hack the big thing. It's probably a TAG or a heavy infantry. So hack it if you brought hackers. Depends on your faction but if you don't have a good hacker you'll have more good weapons for option 2 above.

4)Mono-filament CCW. One failed saved kills anything. If a TAG is on its own with the rest of your army hiding then it has nobody else to help it discover camo tokens. This means camo tokens have an easy job getting into melee with it. Speculo killer, Oniwaban etc can 1-shot it in melee and strike first.

5) Combat camo attacks. Again an isolated model is vulnerable to camo tokens. They can attack first in a normal instead of face to face roll. ADHL is another 1 shot kill (well 1-shot you're immobilised and you didn't bring an engineer, or at least he's hiding miles away in this list.). Multiple sniper rifles from out of camo will hurt a TAG. Many TAGs have nasty mid-range weapons but won't be able to do jack to a TO sniper 36" away. If the TAG tries to close it will be killed for sure. So it can't go forward. The solution is for the rest of his army to surpress or kill the TO sniper, the TAG isn't meant for that job.

6) Mines. If they're mono-filament or viral they are especially dangerous. You can block off routes of advance for the big scary thing. Admittedly it can probably walk through and only likely take a wound but that makes it much more vulnerable to massed rifle fire.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

robertsjf wrote:

quozl wrote:Yep, you don't have to have cheap guys as long as you play around 300 points. At 150 points you really do have to have some cheap models imo otherwise you'll be starved of orders. The game designers say it is designed for 300 points

I see, so there's an army list sweet spot where you can buy moderately priced minis that are worthwhile and have enough order to go around. I guess the problem I saw was that you'd take 1 uber trooper and as many scrubs as you had points left over for. These were typically 150 point games.

Sort of. I'm playing a 150 point game against a fairly new player tomorrow and this is the list I'm bringing.

http://www.infinitycreator.com/users/500/army_lists/11215

It has two cheap guys that are tbh mostly there for order generating - the alguaciles. I could swap them for another zero for example and I'd have no cheap guys and the downside would be one less order. Because it's 150 points it is a bit of a balancing act. The basic alguaciles are not very exciting imo but they have decent ballistic skill and a combi rifle and you should do more with them than just hide them somewhere but the reason they're in that list mostly is to give me 2 cheap orders.

The Morlock is also 10 points but he's irregular so he keeps his order for himself. He's there because he's a bad ass! He's another cheap but really fun trooper.

As a comparison, even at 250 point you can ignore the cheap guys. Here's a 250 point Nomad list that I like:
http://www.infinitycreator.com/users/500/army_lists/10658
It only has a single cheap line infantry - and he's not actually there to be an order monkey he's there because as well as being a forward observer (I don't care in this list) he has deployable repeaters So he won't be hiding - he'll be workng his way forward and either trying to drop a repeater within 8" of a juicy target for hacking, or blocking off some route by lacing it with repeaters. The other cheap thing is a droid that provides hacking support. It's not a cheap order generator - it's going to be hated by an opponent

quozl wrote:You can choose to play that way and that's probably the first strategy that someone will try when they start Infinity.

Take something big, and then as many cheap guys as possible to fuel it.

I don't think it's something that you'll do for long though, and I never do it, not because it's not-fun (I've played against it and enjoyed that) but because it's not really effective.

I see, so I just didn't play enough to overcome my Newbism. Secret is to stock up on a fair number of medium grade guys that overall can fulfill a variety of functions with maybe one big dude and only 1-2 order batteries? I'll check it out again if I see it at the FLGS.

quozl wrote:
As a comparison, even at 250 point you can ignore the cheap guys. Here's a 250 point Nomad list that I like:
http://www.infinitycreator.com/users/500/army_lists/10658
It only has a single cheap line infantry - and he's not actually there to be an order monkey he's there because as well as being a forward observer (I don't care in this list) he has deployable repeaters So he won't be hiding - he'll be workng his way forward and either trying to drop a repeater within 8" of a juicy target for hacking, or blocking off some route by lacing it with repeaters. The other cheap thing is a droid that provides hacking support. It's not a cheap order generator - it's going to be hated by an opponent

Another fun part is nothing is useless. I play nomads and my lists are completely different then even quozl here


NOMADS
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

Grupo 1 (Reg: 10/Irr: 0):

INTERVENTOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife (26 | 0.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:10 WIP:15 ARM:1 BTS:-3 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Hacking Device Plus, Lieutenant

ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife (14)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:10 WIP:13 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater

2x REAKTION ZOND HMG, Antipersonnel Mines / Electric Pulse (28 | 1)
MOV:6-4 CC:8 BS:11 PH:8 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:-3 STR:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Remote Presence
Total Reaction, Repeater, Climbing Plus, 360º Visor

SALYUT Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse (21)
MOV:4-4 CC:8 BS:11 PH:8 WIP:13 ARM:2 BTS:-3 STR:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Remote Presence
Baggage, Repeater, Total Reaction

SALYUT Electric Pulse (13 | 0.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:8 BS:11 PH:8 WIP:13 ARM:2 BTS:-3 STR:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Remote Presence
Baggage, Repeater, EVO Repeater

LUNOKHOD Boarding Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse (29)
MOV:6-4 CC:8 BS:12 PH:8 WIP:13 ARM:3 BTS:-6 STR:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Remote Presence
Repeater, Minesweeper, Climbing Plus

TSYKLON Feuerbach / Electric Pulse (38 | 1.5)
MOV:6-4 CC:8 BS:12 PH:8 WIP:13 ARM:3 BTS:-6 STR:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Remote Presence
Repeater, Climbing Plus, 360º Visor

HELLCAT Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, Knife (25 | 0.5)
MOV:4-2 CC:14 BS:12 PH:12 WIP:13 ARM:2 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
AD: Combat Jump | Zero-G, V: Courage

CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife (18)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:10 WIP:15 ARM:1 BTS:-3 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Engineer

3x ZONBOT Electric Pulse (3)
MOV:6-4 CC:8 BS:8 PH:8 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:-3 STR:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Servant
CH: Mimetism


249 Points | SWC: 5



Same army, vastly different playstyles, both fully effective.

@BlueDagger; yes indeed, I love that nothing in the armylists are saying "you MUST take this", the only "restriction" I see is that some units can't be lieutenants... that's it. And of course, I played a bit with the army creator with nomands, the list I made was totaly diferent. aaah, freedom of choice in a game <3

quozl wrote:
Then add in a nasty gun per side, HMG or spitfire while moving up to 150 points.

Then add in a basic camo or basic drop-troop (not HMG/Spitfire) guy per side.

Then add in TO models, hacking, TAGs, whatever.

That's how I try and teach people the game. You can go all out from the start but it's a lot to learn.

Well... depends really.
In 200 points I find myself including maybe 1-2 REM's, and some HI. And with that 1 doctor, found it quite usefull, one time my I got quite lucky with a Daofei with HMG moving down 4 guys, and then he had his LT and 2 guys left. And he had considered making one of the guys a Doctor, cause his LT took down the Daofei, and the rest of my army was quite far away. Considering that a TAG costs so much, i think the cheapest is 85 pts, its mostly for larger games on.. maybe 400+?
light&medium for start -> heavy infantry and REMs -> TAGS, (mixing ofc) but yeah from easy to more specialised works bests.

Wow! This thread is getting quite some love. I thought it would get a few folks saying either they love or hate the game and a brief reason why, but there are some great posts here!

This is what makes Dakka so great! Awesome members who are willing to really discuss the ins and outs of a game.

quozl wrote:Start off at lower points like 100 and keep it to basic troopers and basic guns for the first game.

Then add in a nasty gun per side, HMG or spitfire while moving up to 150 points.

Then add in a basic camo or basic drop-troop (not HMG/Spitfire) guy per side.

Then add in TO models, hacking, TAGs, whatever.

How many basic troopers would one start with?
Example, The Ariadna Starter has 3 Line Kazaks. Should I buy another blister with thes so I have 6 as a basic even for bigger games?
Is it ok to mix those Line Kazaks with basics like Caledonian Volunteers?

robertsjf wrote:Secret is to stock up on a fair number of medium grade guys that overall can fulfill a variety of functions with maybe one big dude and only 1-2 order batteries? I'll check it out again if I see it at the FLGS.

Yep, that's definitely an option. I often have no big guys at all - not even any heavy infantry as m personal taste is for medium infantry and the skirmishers.

You could even do up a good list with 16 or so light infantry in two combat groups of 8 - I've done it with Haqqislam for variety. Light Infantry can still carry heavy machine guns, missile launchers, sniper rifles etc. Their ballistic skill won't be as good but for that reason the big weapons are usually a little cheaper on them, you get a lot of bodies and you can get more AROs as your opponent advances. I do prefer keeping it to around 10 miniatures though.

If you do check it out again, then I'd really advise avoiding things like TAGs or really big expensive HI like the Asura for the first half dozen games - if you don't know the basic game you'll really struggle to deal with them. I'd suggest starting with line troopers with just rifles and shotguns. Then escalate it per game by adding camo, then a HMG or spitfire, then drop troopers. then TO camo. Once you have big guns, drop troops, camo, TO camo and some experience then enemy tags won't be so scary. A single line-infantry with a missle launcher can even one shot one if you get really lucky!

The biggest problem I ran into when starting the game was that we didn't realise quite how much line of sight blocking terrain we needed and we gave ourselves fantastic sniper towers in our deployment zones without thinking it through. So the first games turned into sniper battles with any advancing troops massacred Watch out for that one too!



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Method wrote:

quozl wrote:Start off at lower points like 100 and keep it to basic troopers and basic guns for the first game.

Then add in a nasty gun per side, HMG or spitfire while moving up to 150 points.

Then add in a basic camo or basic drop-troop (not HMG/Spitfire) guy per side.

Then add in TO models, hacking, TAGs, whatever.

How many basic troopers would one start with?
Example, The Ariadna Starter has 3 Line Kazaks. Should I buy another blister with thes so I have 6 as a basic even for bigger games?
Is it ok to mix those Line Kazaks with basics like Caledonian Volunteers?

I wouldn't buy anything that you don't think you'll use at higher points levels. I don't remember using more than 3 of the most basic troopers in a full size game - I might bring more light infantry than that but they'll be things like flame-thrower guys, panzerfausts, grenade launchers or HMG.

Here is a 100 point list using the Ariadna starter box
http://infinitycreator.com/users/500/army_lists/11307

The only thing I left out is the Highlander Grey - simply because something had to be dropped to fit and he was a handy point value to drop. At 100 points 49 points on one guy is a lot but I restricted it to the contents of the starter box so this is the list that I would make out of it for a demo game.

It'd be quite a good intro game list imo. The only possibly difficult thing is the camo troop. If there are other models that you're buying and they're basic you could swap them in for him. Camo is actually very simple enough once you understand it - there are three minute or so long videos made by corvus belli explaining it if you're interested.

Playing that list against a similar list will let you get used to the game. There are no nasty surprises and nothing too confusing but it'll still be interesting imo while you're learning. I would leave the camo guy in personally but balance it by making sure the other guy has one too, so you're both at the same level of newbie confusion

Is it ok to mix those Line Kazaks with basics like Caledonian Volunteers?

Yep, absolutely in a general Ariadna list. If you later decide to run a sectorial army for a particular game then I doubt they're both in the same sectorial so you would be restricted then.

If I have 9 points left over in a Nomads list that has Alguaciles in it, then I either spend the 9 points upgrading something, down-grade something by a couple of points and add something worth more than 9, or stick in a 9 point moderator. Alguaciles and Moderators are two of the three Nomad line-troopers (the other, the Securitate are kind of like medium-light). There's no restriction having them in the same list unless sectorial and they actually complement each other very nicely because for example Alguaciles can have deployable repeaters for hacking, and moderators can have a 2-shot gun that fires deployable repeaters So in a hacking orientated list I might want to bring both of them to get both of those toys.

Method wrote:
How many basic troopers would one start with?
Example, The Ariadna Starter has 3 Line Kazaks. Should I buy another blister with thes so I have 6 as a basic even for bigger games?
Is it ok to mix those Line Kazaks with basics like Caledonian Volunteers?

Yeah on higher pts as qouzl you will.. at the most use 3 regular guys. there is almost always like 10-13 points left. But generaly you want to use REM's, Medium and Heavy infantry (TAG's later) as your base

Ok so my 3 Kazaks ar enough, more money to spend on other minis.

Maybe this is a stupid question but these models don't come on these bases are they?

I really don't know about those specific ones but it's not a stupid question as I do know that the Cateran Sniper



comes with that base.

You are allowed use the scenic base or not. The scenic base is cool looking but you might prefer to base it on a normal 25 mil base for game-play reasons.

Method wrote:Ok so my 3 Kazaks ar enough, more money to spend on other minis.

Maybe this is a stupid question but these models don't come on these bases are they?

They have those bases included in the blister.
Until now, all sappers come with the "foxhole" basement.

Yes, they do come with that "base". YOu get eh model in that position then the metal terrain piece that goes on the base. Really give the Ariadna a gritty feel

There are INFINITY threads in NEWS & RUMORS, OTHER SCI-FI GAMES and MAILIFAUX & OTHER SKIRMISH SCALE GAMES...

I'm all for the INFINITY love, but there aren't many of us on here, we should try to coordinate our actions, perhaps even link them up...

(Do you see what I did there?!? )

The only miniatures i really like are the Panoceania dewds with the knives, they look like rad cyborg commandos. Can i have an army of just them? Sikh commandos i think, but there seem to be similar guys with different names.