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I smell a troll.

Let me guess, the OP also sent a petition to Blizzard Entertainment over the changes to the warrior class in World of Warcraft.

How did that work out for you?

I don't particularly understand why so many of you seem to be quite so venomous to the idea of actually acting to try and change things; Do I alone have a chance at success? Chances are no. But that thats the point of making a thread such as thins, and at least trying to get something moving.

I don't really care to much that you dont mind what going on in the GK codex fiction wise, it is a bit disturbing to see so many of you basically be willing to roll over and not do anything because it seems to difficult. That mentality only results in one thing, and that to be eternally pushed around until you either snap, or are finally just pushed over entirely. 40k fluff really is just fluff; but why should that give it some sort of "off limits" status?

If I'm the only person in the world who snapped off a letter to GW because of the issue, well, that sucks for my cause, but at least on a personal level I know that I at least summoned up the cajones to try. So you guys can belittle my opinion all you want - but to attempt to belittle actually send them a letter in the first place only reflects badly on you.

Carlovonsexron wrote:I don't particularly understand why so many of you seem to be quite so venomous to the idea of actually acting to try and change things; Do I alone have a chance at success? Chances are no. But that thats the point of making a thread such as thins, and at least trying to get something moving.

I don't really care to much that you dont mind what going on in the GK codex fiction wise, it is a bit disturbing to see so many of you basically be willing to roll over and not do anything because it seems to difficult. That mentality only results in one thing, and that to be eternally pushed around until you either snap, or are finally just pushed over entirely. 40k fluff really is just fluff; but why should that give it some sort of "off limits" status?

If I'm the only person in the world who snapped off a letter to GW because of the issue, well, that sucks for my cause, but at least on a personal level I know that I at least summoned up the cajones to try. So you guys can belittle my opinion all you want - but to attempt to belittle actually send them a letter in the first place only reflects badly on you.

However, you didn't send a letter. You sent an email.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
If I'm the only person in the world who snapped off a letter to GW because of the issue, well, that sucks for my cause, but at least on a personal level I know that I at least summoned up the cajones to try.

I sent them an email on a job well done.

Frazzled wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:I don't particularly understand why so many of you seem to be quite so venomous to the idea of actually acting to try and change things; Do I alone have a chance at success? Chances are no. But that thats the point of making a thread such as thins, and at least trying to get something moving.

I don't really care to much that you dont mind what going on in the GK codex fiction wise, it is a bit disturbing to see so many of you basically be willing to roll over and not do anything because it seems to difficult. That mentality only results in one thing, and that to be eternally pushed around until you either snap, or are finally just pushed over entirely. 40k fluff really is just fluff; but why should that give it some sort of "off limits" status?

If I'm the only person in the world who snapped off a letter to GW because of the issue, well, that sucks for my cause, but at least on a personal level I know that I at least summoned up the cajones to try. So you guys can belittle my opinion all you want - but to attempt to belittle actually send them a letter in the first place only reflects badly on you.

However, you didn't send a letter. You sent an email.

Are the two not synonymous is this era? My opinion is that they are.

In any case, I did receive a response from GW, wonderfully promptly now that the weekend is over. I, and many people can find fault with GW for many things - but customer service is not one of them!

Greetings!



Thank you for writing in to us! Unfortunately, those decisions were made by several teams located in the UK. I will forward your concern on but I can not guarantee a response. I apologize about the inconvenience.

So, not much to hope for in terms of change, but I would suppose it brings home the "common truism" that its not one person in charge of writing a codex.

DarknessEternal wrote:
I sent them an email on a job well done.

Is there a real point on putting that in this thread beyond trolling me?

I can see their response now "Let them eat cake" and you know what, we will.

The Grey Knight codex is also meeting a few a little hard by fluff people on Warseer, Bolter and chainsword, Hersey Online, Youtube, and a whole bunch of other websites. This is really really bad for GW. The codex got horrible reviews.
The fluff is inconsitant with the lore already laid out be other codexs that had only come out recently. All in all GW Made a bick mistake and they are probably seeing now that there is a ton of people who are not happy with Gray Knights Codex AT ALL.
Its not just dakkadakka my friends.
You should of sent them.

Dear GW,

After reading the new Codex Gray Knights, I was horrified that the fluff is inconstant with the current fluff laid out by the Space Wolves, Black Library, Blood Angels, and many other codexes. I have detailed this in that many others have wanted to get their money back for a horrid codex that seems rushed and bland. The Main Problem I have with the codex is that the fluff about the Gray Knights painting their armor in the blood of an entire sisterhood (Of the Sisters of Battle) to protect them from daemons, even though the Gray Knights Armor is already protected against Daemons. Also the Purifier fluff is sloppy in that how can something pure, be purier? As we all know the Gray Knights have had 0 of their battle brothers turn to chaos. Also it is also worth noting the heroes of the Gray Knights Most notably the Grand Masters have seemed to be debuffed, even though the Grand Masters according to many other sources in white dwarves and DaemonHunter Codex was the ruling council of the Gray Knights.
Not only that but Drago the so called Supreme Grand Master was able to banish a primarch and his entire bodyguard, this seems wrong as it took 100 Gray Knights to banish just one primarch and 50 Blood Thirsters. And only one grey Knight came out of this, That being the Gray Knight Brother Captain Aurellian, who seems to have been ignored! Not only this but the Fluff stating that Grimnar allowed the grey knights to mind wipe the entire Space Wolves is incorrect as it is entered in the memories of every single Space Wolf and they recognize themselves as veterans of the War itself.
Not only this but there are more incorrect pieces of work in the codex that need to be fixed. For example Drago being able to walk through the warp untouched by its power is completely impossible as the warp immedately makes all humans go insane, not only this but the Daemons have been killed in their own realm?? My question is how can he be almost Daemon stats, if he is just a Gray Knight Psyker, even the most powerful Pyskers cannot do this as their eyes are burnt out.

Also the Lore on killing millions if not billions of their own people, makes the grey Knights seem more like their are killing more of humanity than they are of Demons. We get it they are secret but the constant reminder of them being secret is not only unneeded but the excess population of gamers are over 15 years old. Not 10, the hero profiles seem like the history is like, "Then I did this, Then this happened, Then I did something awesome." Basically rewritten over and over again.

The Reason I wrote this is because my concern for the Grey Knights Codex. The Orignal Grey Knights were Knights of Chiviliary now they are over done wrecked balls of idiots who kill their own kind and are somehow better than the Entire Custodes. As somehow the Grey Knights can move moons and cloak their entire moon during the horus hersey. And this is my question. "WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THAT TO TERRA THEN?"

Thank you for your time.

sincerely,
(Who ever wants to send this)



/Rant over.

Well, they should fix the numerous typographical errors first.

Emails won't work. Boycotting the products is the only way to get across to such a company, but guess what? Countless have already bought the grey little power armored guys and their grey little terminator armor and their grey terminator armor in dreadknight armor and some grey stormravens, with some grey HQ's.

So the best you can really do is just not play against anyone with grey knights.

Why would anyone reply to that? If you dont like a book dont buy it. I dont like the narnia books, shall i send a email to c s lewis and bitch about a couple of stories? Customer services are there to help when your book is missing a page or such not to calm down angry nerds.

Also, did you ACTUALLY think one person wrote the WHOLE book? Even though GW have said MANY times the opposite is true?

:/

I still don't even get what your specific issues ARE with the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Boomer - tbf, CS Lewis is (thankfully) dead (the crackpot.)

How old is this guy? Is he a day over 30?

Irrelevant...Every person blessed enough to be PAID to write 40k fluff should be FORCED and REQUIRED to read the original WH40k:RogueTrader and the original Book of the Astronomicon from cover to frikkin cover.

I realize the game has grown and not everything fluff-wise can stay the same, but these people need to be grounded in the original vision and stay true to the 40k people used to envision back in 1990.

I've met a lot of GW employees who've never even SEEN an original 40k book, much less read one and have never heard of Rick Priestly! You'd think the design team would have at least.

Boomer wrote:Why would anyone reply to that? If you dont like a book dont buy it. I dont like the narnia books, shall i send a email to c s lewis and bitch about a couple of stories? Customer services are there to help when your book is missing a page or such not to calm down angry nerds.

Big difference though C.S. Lewis is dead....... And he served in WWI. *honor the dead!*
And mate just read my letter, I read the codex and I was horrified at how badly written it is. IT is not just me, its a whole lot of people.
Also we cannot forget that GW actually likes their customers and they have tried to keep that up. Unfortunately I believe I am just shooting blanks here.
And some of you people can't read...

omg this is so boring now. Im so going to buy the codex on the weekend. Hopefully that will mean Mr Ward will earn that phat end of year bonus and get to write the chaos codex. Rules and fluff change deal with it. Sending spiteful emails to g.w will not change that.

Boomer wrote:omg this is so boring now. Im so going to buy the codex on the weekend. Hopefully that will mean Mr Ward will earn that phat end of year bonus and get to write the chaos codex. Rules and fluff change deal with it. Sending spiteful emails to g.w will not change that.

Then why even post on this thread?
Some people like the fluff and play for the fluff. This basically ruins the Grey Knights for alot of people.

There's nothing wrong with writing a letter of complaint to a company - I'm sure GW care about receiving feedback on their products from the end consumer just as much as any other company do. I think your mistake here is thinking "let's all band together and force GW to change their ways", it ain't gonna happen because it doesn't work like that. The most you can do is send them a quick letter saying "I was disapointed by this product for reason X, I will think twice before buying your products again, thanks for your time". Don't look for, or expect, a response from them. If enough people send that then they will note the fact that that product got poor responses (as will they get from website reviews, consumer feedback forums, focus groups, and all the other marketing stuff that businesses do). Of course, if the sales go through the roof, that is the end result they're looking for and the only thing you can do is a) put up with it or b) find a new gaming system. I suspect many people will choose option A, which shows that they still prefer GW despite its perceived flaws. Many others will go for B. It's one I recommend to you myself.

I boycott a number of companies, for a number of different reasons. It can be argued that the only real power we have in today's society is as a consumer. So if I decide I will no longer purchase a product, I write to the company telling them why, hope other people will do the same, and move on with my life.

seejay wrote:There's nothing wrong with writing a letter of complaint to a company - I'm sure GW care about receiving feedback on their products from the end consumer just as much as any other company do. I think your mistake here is thinking "let's all band together and force GW to change their ways", it ain't gonna happen because it doesn't work like that. The most you can do is send them a quick letter saying "I was disapointed by this product for reason X, I will think twice before buying your products again, thanks for your time". Don't look for, or expect, a response from them. If enough people send that then they will note the fact that that product got poor responses (as will they get from website reviews, consumer feedback forums, focus groups, and all the other marketing stuff that businesses do). Of course, if the sales go through the roof, that is the end result they're looking for and the only thing you can do is a) put up with it or b) find a new gaming system. I suspect many people will choose option A, which shows that they still prefer GW despite its perceived flaws. Many others will go for B. It's one I recommend to you myself.

I boycott a number of companies, for a number of different reasons. It can be argued that the only real power we have in today's society is as a consumer. So if I decide I will no longer purchase a product, I write to the company telling them why, hope other people will do the same, and move on with my life.

Are you talking to me? Because I have been playing this hobby for way too long. So If i give up now thats bad, I spent alot of time on this hobby, So no.

-Loki- wrote:As a Tyranid player, I'm used to seeing bad fluff and rules. But this overreaction to the Grey Knight stuff is frankly getting embarrasing.

Well said. Every new codex usually takes that army over the top. Every dog has his day...

Boomer wrote:omg this is so boring now. Im so going to buy the codex on the weekend. Hopefully that will mean Mr Ward will earn that phat end of year bonus and get to write the chaos codex. Rules and fluff change deal with it. Sending spiteful emails to g.w will not change that.

Dear Mr or Ms Boomer

Since you are going to buy the codex purely on the grounds of piddling on Asherian et al their strawberries, I conclude that you have many a pretty penny of highly disposable income.

Rather than buy a Codex on such a whimsical pretext, it would, imho, be so much more constructive for you to purchase a new Dark Eldar Codex of which i am sorely in need.
This will not be just for my own benefit, but also for the betterance of the little gaming group where I volunteer. If you could deliver said codex to our local library that would be wonderful. Otherwise please send a paypal gift to me, and I shall obtain the book. I shall send you a receipt as proof of purchese.

The community and myself thank you in anticipation of your generous and wholly positive gesture.
Yours most faithfully

Chibi

I bought http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FzujIlFtL._SL500_AA300_.jpg the day it came out and I've been bitching about GW ever since.

Believe me, they don't care. Oh, the designers care (the older ones anyway) but the guys who make all the real decisions (owners of the Jaguars in the parking lot) don't. Their goal is to sell miniatures.

They don't care if the game is good!!! If they did, it wouldn't use d6's in a d10 world! EVERY successive version becomes more and more dumbed down. Why? So you'll either need more miniatures or have to buy new ones. Believe me, before Apoc it was a very, very sore point with us greybeards.

My very first Assault Squad...I spent months and months collecting and trading for plasma pistols, power swords, power axes and coffin-shaped shields (you didn't used to get much 'extra' bits, see). No sooner do I get them exactly like I want them and fully painted than>>> They change the rules and I can no longer have power axes or power shields. Rules-wise they simply were no longer allowed.

I finally get my Imperial Jetbike assembled and painted...FINALLY....and they disappear from the rules. To add injury to insult, they show up some 10 years later...but only ONE and some jackass Space Marine has the 'last known Imperial Jetbike'. ??? I got FIVE of them in my bits-box not including the two Mk2 Bullocks.

See what I mean? If it makes you feel better, by all means send them an email, but the powers that be will never even see it. All they see is "Oh, look...$$$...the GK's are successful. Ok, now we'll make enough to supply our stores."

This is just getting ridiculous now...

Let's put it this way; if you are so innately disappointed with the GK 'dex why not just, I don't know, return it out of protest? Least then you won't be reminded on a daily basis that you spent money on a product you don't like, and in return maybe this website will have a few less threads cropping up regarding GK/Matt Ward hate.

As has been stated elsewhere on this thread, there are a select few people actually upset with the GK 'dex, the vast majority are commentators who just enjoy complaining about things simply for the sake of it. It just so happens that Grey Knights and Matt Ward are the topic du jeur.

Guess what? When the *next* codex comes out there will probably be people who don't like *that* either! Then we get to go through this whole debacle all over again.

As an aside, have you ever though that there are people out there who *shock* LIKE the GK 'dex and Matt Ward */shock*? I know its not the 'cool' thing to do on a forum but still, for every one person who dislikes it there's probably 10 more who do.

Now please can we stop this nonsense?

L. Wrex


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:snip

Not sure if serious?

You realise there's nothing stopping you from playing the older systems with friends should you wish to do so right? You also realise that progression is a natural form of...well...anything in life, and that as things progress they inevitably get simpler and easier to use so as to allow more people to partake of and enjoy *insert relevant item here*? It's like complaining how unfair it is that we have electricity now because you spent ages making your own candles.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:This is just getting ridiculous now...

Let's put it this way; if you are so innately disappointed with the GK 'dex why not just, I don't know, return it out of protest? Least then you won't be reminded on a daily basis that you spent money on a product you don't like, and in return maybe this website will have a few less threads cropping up regarding GK/Matt Ward hate.

As has been stated elsewhere on this thread, there are a select few people actually upset with the GK 'dex, the vast majority are commentators who just enjoy complaining about things simply for the sake of it. It just so happens that Grey Knights and Matt Ward are the topic du jeur.

Guess what? When the *next* codex comes out there will probably be people who don't like *that* either! Then we get to go through this whole debacle all over again.

As an aside, have you ever though that there are people out there who *shock* LIKE the GK 'dex and Matt Ward */shock*? I know its not the 'cool' thing to do on a forum but still, for every one person who dislikes it there's probably 10 more who do.

Now please can we stop this nonsense?

L. Wrex


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:snip

Not sure if serious?

You realise there's nothing stopping you from playing the older systems with friends should you wish to do so right? You also realise that progression is a natural form of...well...anything in life, and that as things progress they inevitably get simpler and easier to use so as to allow more people to partake of and enjoy *insert relevant item here*? It's like complaining how unfair it is that we have electricity now because you spent ages making your own candles.

L. Wrex

Actually I downloaded mine... (one of my buds sent me the entire codex in PDF form and he originally bought it for me... He now regrets buying it after reading it....)

Asherian Command wrote:Are you talking to me? Because I have been playing this hobby for way too long. So If i give up now thats bad, I spent alot of time on this hobby, So no.

Then clearly, this whole GK thing doesn't bother you as much as you're making it out.

I wouldn't admit to pirating the codex if I were you.

seejay wrote:There's nothing wrong with writing a letter of complaint to a company - I'm sure GW care about receiving feedback on their products from the end consumer just as much as any other company do. I think your mistake here is thinking "let's all band together and force GW to change their ways", it ain't gonna happen because it doesn't work like that. The most you can do is send them a quick letter saying "I was disapointed by this product for reason X, I will think twice before buying your products again, thanks for your time". Don't look for, or expect, a response from them. If enough people send that then they will note the fact that that product got poor responses (as will they get from website reviews, consumer feedback forums, focus groups, and all the other marketing stuff that businesses do). Of course, if the sales go through the roof, that is the end result they're looking for and the only thing you can do is a) put up with it or b) find a new gaming system. I suspect many people will choose option A, which shows that they still prefer GW despite its perceived flaws. Many others will go for B. It's one I recommend to you myself.

I boycott a number of companies, for a number of different reasons. It can be argued that the only real power we have in today's society is as a consumer. So if I decide I will no longer purchase a product, I write to the company telling them why, hope other people will do the same, and move on with my life.

Good comment, my thoughts exactly.

I don't think its a problem admitting you pirate things, provided you don't give out links to the websites themselves.

L. Wrex

Another one of these threads?

Nothing to see here...move along.

Why return the book only for GW to sell again and make yet more monies from the Silly Book of Non-Fluffy Grey Knights.

That would be a very irresponsible course of action LWrex.

Only by coating the pages with cyanide, a la The Name of the Rose would returning it would make any sense.

Brother SRM wrote:I wouldn't admit to pirating the codex if I were you.

Thats true. But considering I know a slew of people have done it. And plus if someone has bought it for me. And Are unable to send it to me, because of some shipping errors. (costs too much and they are too lazy to drop it off.) Then no its not a pirated codex. Plus I will never use it. Deleted it.
But I am Fluff guy, I love fluff, and if any fluff is horrible, I just ignore it. Like I am saying with the grey Knight codex. It doesn't exist. The fluff is not real.