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omerakk wrote:It doesn't have an actual transport capacity though, that is to say, units can't be held inside of it. The emergency disembarking rules only apply to normal disembarking rules on page 67. For this to be possible, the unit must start it's turn inside the vehicle; something the necron units can't do since they are either on the board already, or are in reserve

Oh? Where do you get the part about "it must start its turn inside the vehicle" from?

The Monolith says to treat emerging warriors as if they are disembarking from a stationary vehicle. That's pretty precise to me.

Right, it says to follow the normal disembarking rules, but those rules on page 67 of the rulebook apply to units inside a vehicle only, so if you argue that you follow all of the accompanying rules, the monolith wouldn't even be capable of teleporting to begin with. The only way it's technically legal is only to apply the basic disembarking and movement rules and nothing else.

The whole emergency disembark rule is a fluff rule really. The door on your rhino can't be opened? Fine. Kick out a window, blow torch the side, whatever you have to do to get out. You can't really do any of that as a Necron since you're not even inside the monolith to begin with. You exit the teleporter and slam right into a brick wall and die with no time to react.

If you can emergency disembark from that, why do units in reserve die if the monolith they nominated to arrive from is wrecked? Normal units can still emergency disembark from a wrecked vehicle. If you say it's because the teleporter is down, you're admitting that is the only point of exit on the vehicle and it doesn't follow the normal disembarking rules because it's a special case

why 2 warbosses but only one unit of nobs?
each warboss makes a nob unit troops, take more nobs or take less warbosses and include a mek with KFF

Because Boyz are 6 points?

omerakk wrote:Right, it says to follow the normal disembarking rules, but those rules on page 67 of the rulebook apply to units inside a vehicle only, so if you argue that you follow all of the accompanying rules, the monolith wouldn't even be capable of teleporting to begin with. The only way it's technically legal is only to apply the basic disembarking and movement rules and nothing else.

The whole emergency disembark rule is a fluff rule really. The door on your rhino can't be opened? Fine. Kick out a window, blow torch the side, whatever you have to do to get out. You can't really do any of that as a Necron since you're not even inside the monolith to begin with. You exit the teleporter and slam right into a brick wall and die with no time to react.

If you can emergency disembark from that, why do units in reserve die if the monolith they nominated to arrive from is wrecked? Normal units can still emergency disembark from a wrecked vehicle. If you say it's because the teleporter is down, you're admitting that is the only point of exit on the vehicle and it doesn't follow the normal disembarking rules because it's a special case

Well if we're gonna talk fluff and not rules, then the monolith portal/teleport function performs an emergency random teleport to phase them in anywhere around the lith that is viable and due to the shock of not knowing the location they land in the warriors (or other necron unit) can't do anything for the rest of the turn while they regain their awareness of their surroundings.

The fact remains that the monolith "does" have a transport capacity. Just because it's not a number doesn't mean you can just disregard it as an allowable requirement. Emergency disembarkation does not apply only to units that "begin their turn in a transport vehicle", it simply states what to do when embarking from a vehicle when "all" access points are blocked. Also, where do you think the necrons go when they're teleported? Inside the monolith. The only difference between the liths transport and, say, a rhino, is that the embark rule is overwritten with an 18" range instead of 2" and the unit has to immediately disembark, per the normal disembark rules.

And the warriors are destroyed if in reserve and all monoliths are gone (if elected to come in from a lith) because the general consensus is that they are awaiting transport from either a space craft or deep underground. Unlike warriors walking in who are just...well, walking in.

Well if we're gonna talk fluff and not rules, then the monolith portal/teleport function performs an emergency random teleport to phase them in anywhere around the lith that is viable and due to the shock of not knowing the location they land in the warriors (or other necron unit) can't do anything for the rest of the turn while they regain their awareness of their surroundings.

Ya, but it specifically says they can only teleport through the portal. If they could appear anywhere around the monolith, they could just appear anywhere on the battlefield if they wanted to take a risk, but they can't

The fact remains that the monolith "does" have a transport capacity. Just because it's not a number doesn't mean you can just disregard it as an allowable requirement. Emergency disembarkation does not apply only to units that "begin their turn in a transport vehicle", it simply states what to do when embarking from a vehicle when "all" access points are blocked.

See, this is what I find confusing. The monolith rule says to treat the units as making a normal disembark move, and the normal disembark move specifically says the unit must start inside a vehicle, so how do you know which rules apply and which don't? It seems more like personal taste to the players than it does for rules

Also, where do you think the necrons go when they're teleported? Inside the monolith. The only difference between the liths transport and, say, a rhino, is that the embark rule is overwritten with an 18" range instead of 2" and the unit has to immediately disembark, per the normal disembark rules.

They don' though, their point of entry to reality is the actual portal. Think of that Stargate show.

I didn't mean to start a rules debate over this. It just seemed like blatant cheese hunting to me

omerakk wrote:

Well if we're gonna talk fluff and not rules, then the monolith portal/teleport function performs an emergency random teleport to phase them in anywhere around the lith that is viable and due to the shock of not knowing the location they land in the warriors (or other necron unit) can't do anything for the rest of the turn while they regain their awareness of their surroundings.

Ya, but it specifically says they can only teleport through the portal. If they could appear anywhere around the monolith, they could just appear anywhere on the battlefield if they wanted to take a risk, but they can't

The fact remains that the monolith "does" have a transport capacity. Just because it's not a number doesn't mean you can just disregard it as an allowable requirement. Emergency disembarkation does not apply only to units that "begin their turn in a transport vehicle", it simply states what to do when embarking from a vehicle when "all" access points are blocked.

See, this is what I find confusing. The monolith rule says to treat the units as making a normal disembark move, and the normal disembark move specifically says the unit must start inside a vehicle, so how do you know which rules apply and which don't? It seems more like personal taste to the players than it does for rules

Also, where do you think the necrons go when they're teleported? Inside the monolith. The only difference between the liths transport and, say, a rhino, is that the embark rule is overwritten with an 18" range instead of 2" and the unit has to immediately disembark, per the normal disembark rules.

They don' though, their point of entry to reality is the actual portal. Think of that Stargate show.

I didn't mean to start a rules debate over this. It just seemed like blatant cheese hunting to me

No, it says they must immediately emerge through the portal. Nothing says they can't emergency disembark. And nothing says they can ONLY come through the portal, it just states the portal is the only exit point on the monolith, as opposed to other vehicles that have multiple access points.

What's so difficult to understand that you're still embarking on the monolith, it is just not a standard embarkation. The disembark is 100% normal to every vehicle rule there is, you are simply FORCED to disembark when you get teleported by the monolith. You do NOT have to start in the vehicle, the only thing that says anything to the contrary is that you can't embark/disembark in the same round, but the monolith rules override that part to an extent.

Stop using fluff! I don't care if they go into a pocket of time dilation, they're still embarked on the monolith for that fraction of time. Cheese hunting is trying to say that the monolith can't use standard disembarkation rules and thus it make it even easier to destroy units of necrons by blocking a small 2" area around a giant vehicle.

Why exactly do you think necrons are inside of the monolith? If that's the case, what the heck is the point in having the portal at the front? They portal through the door to the inside of the monolith, then turn around and walk through the portal again to get out? That makes no sense.

If they necrons were teleporting to the inside of the monolith, the portal would be inside the monolith too. Then the necron lord could just say "ok guys, you're here, now walk out the front door. If thats blocked, escape out one of the laundry chutes on the sides of the monolith or something"

The portal isnt inside the monolith though, its only at the front, and thats why units cant emergency disembark, because they arent embarked to begin with. Thats why the monolith rule says necron units "emerge from the portal" instead of "exit the portal" or "exit the monolith"

omerakk wrote:Why exactly do you think necrons are inside of the monolith? If that's the case, what the heck is the point in having the portal at the front? They portal through the door to the inside of the monolith, then turn around and walk through the portal again to get out? That makes no sense.

If they necrons were teleporting to the inside of the monolith, the portal would be inside the monolith too. Then the necron lord could just say "ok guys, you're here, now walk out the front door. If thats blocked, escape out one of the laundry chutes on the sides of the monolith or something"

The portal isnt inside the monolith though, its only at the front, and thats why units cant emergency disembark, because they arent embarked to begin with. Thats why the monolith rule says necron units "emerge from the portal" instead of "exit the portal" or "exit the monolith"

Seriously, you're going to say that "emerge" is not the same as exit? Dude, it DOES NOT MATTER where they go when they're teleported. Does not, never, ever, in any sense, matter. They are still embarking and disembarking. The embarkation is special to the monolith, the disembarkation is standard to ALL VEHICLES. It does not MATTER how they disembark, only the rules matter. And the rules do not prohibit an emergency disembarkation from a monolith.

Let's take this outside - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/361779.page

Surfboard66 wrote: As Ghaz is in combat ,my Koptas usually take care of the monolith, destroying or exploding it.

Quick question, how do you kill a monolith with Koptas? Last I looked, they're only Str7 in CC at most (if you give them Power Klaws and they're assaulting). Str 8 with rokkits. Neither of which are enough to penetrate the monolith's armor.

You can really just immobilize it and then stay away from it. It can't be blown up from Weapon Destroyed results.

Fallanir wrote:

Surfboard66 wrote: As Ghaz is in combat ,my Koptas usually take care of the monolith, destroying or exploding it.

Quick question, how do you kill a monolith with Koptas? Last I looked, they're only Str7 in CC at most (if you give them Power Klaws and they're assaulting). Str 8 with rokkits. Neither of which are enough to penetrate the monolith's armor.

Koptas don't kill Monoliths. That's what deffrollas are for.

I had a game against an Ork player (killpoints) a couple weeks ago. His triple deffkoptas (units of 1) scouted across the board to my monoliths, then did a turn one alpha-strike on them with his rokkits. He did no damage, and was like, "WHAT THE HELL!?!? I DIDN'T KILL A SINGLE MONOLITH!?!?"

Then my wraithflowers came to say hello and it was suddenly 3 KP to 0.