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Blackmoor wrote:45-13 DARK ELDAR INCUBI
45-14 DARK ELDAR MANDRAKES
45-36 URIEN RAKARTH
45-37 DARK ELDAR LELITH HESPERAX
45-38 Dark Eldar Clawed Fiend
45-39 Dark Eldar Razorwing Flock
45-40 Dark Eldar Khymera
45-41 Dark Eldar Succubus
45-42 Dark Eldar Beastmaster


These just came out so it looks like resin is on the way.

Wait, didnt those just come out?

...What the ? GW has hit a new crazy.

Take it with a grain of salt , but my local GeeDub rep told me they are going to Direct Only .

I think it's pretty certainly flagging a move to resin, which actually makes tremendous sense for GW (whatever one's personal feelings as amodeller) because of their rising costs and falling profits. The cynical might suggest that they are relying on 'guerilla marketing' (like this thread, which obviously wasn't posted with that in mind, but if it gets peole thinking 'oh god, I must get that soon...') to push sales of these discontinued models so they're pretty much cleared by the time they're ready to release resin replacements. the flip side of that is that it might be more effective for GW to just outright say that -- but the counter to that is if they know a small but significantly vocal section of their customer base is going to be unhappy about a move to resin, the later they come out with a definitive announcement the better.

I'd guess that resin will be marked as cheaeaper and 'just as good' so better value, with an added 'and metal prices are rising horribly, so regrettably/with great sadness/whatever...' tag line. In short, it'll be put forward as an improvemment and necessary modernisation. GW are actually pretty good at the whole positive-marketing thing, and the fact is that the majority of their customer base won't care enough to abandon the hobby. Yes, some will, and plenty more will complain mightily and threaten to. But at the end of the day, most will just carry on. I remember when GW shops used to stock all sorts of games, Citadel made a range of miniatures for all sorts of rpgs (I remember their Runequest sets with great fondness) not just their own and White Dwarf was an rpg magazine, not a GW wargame one. I was gutted when they went to all 'own brand' because at that time GW was pretty much the only retail outlet in my area stocking wargames and rpgs. But that change was stupendously good for their business, even though I hated it and
didn't buy any of their products for some years.

I'd predict boxed kits actually coming down in cost -- but not by too much, just enough to hit the better price points in. Say £19.95 or maybe £18.95 to start with -- instead of £20.50). If resin saves them a lot of money (and bear in mind most of their overheads are going to be for things other than materials), then it's possible they could slash up to a quarter off the price of boxes and simply hope to shift greater volumes (and more paint...). But that depends on how they see their business developing

B£EAKING N£W$ G££Dub have an0unc£d mov£ to r£$in:

As many of you may have noticed we've been subtly sending the grots out to retrieve many of our blisters but eventually even the stealthiest of grots will be noticed (grots, stealthy? - some webteam pleb) and so we are pleased to announce that all of our metal range from the 30/feb/1923 will be produced in resin. This is similar to the materials used by forgeworld (but without the feth-awful quality - some honest guy that's just been fired) and should be even easier to model. Sadly growing metal prices and production costs have caused us to re-evaluate how we practically steal money from you our loyal fans who kept us afloat during troubled times, and to reward this we are increasing prices. For your continued contribution to Kirbys retirement fund you can rest assured that you are a loyal GW fan and can be proud to say that you have the most crapulent hobby known to mankind.

apart from the fact I think there will be a small drop in price 'even superior quality resin allowing a cost-saving we are happy to pass on to our loyal customers -- now you can buy even more models!', I think that's not a bad stab at what we'll see...

I would be surprised if the new DE releases from less than a month ago will be completely discontinued.

'Unfortunately we do have to raise prices a little due to the investment in mass resin casting equipment we had to make.'

I think they'd regard any extra investment in equipment to be a long-term cost, as most businesses would, thus spread over several or many years. GW are usually very smart in their approach to evolutions and occasional revolution. They may not lower their prices, but I'd be very surprised to see them raised simply due to a switch to resin. The fact is though their business model was beginning to stutter and, as they have done in the past, they will be taking action to get it back on course (as they see the course, not necessarily you or I).

One way of winning over many gamers who will be a bit disgruntled with a switch to resin would be by releasing a mass of kits for several neglected armies and saying 'look! here's what we can do now!'

So... GW doesnt supply metal blisters anymore to anyone... and the official word on this to the fans and to the stores is... absolute silence!

Way to go GW a new low on communication and a new high in frustating EVERYONE who supports them.

I dont have all the metals I would like for my collection and from the news I guess I never will... Good way to push me to buy metals from other companies

What I find interesting is that not a single Witch Hunter metal model has been "discontinued". I dont mean the Sisters of Battle models but rather Arco-Flagellants and Death Cult Assassins.
Sisters are getting plastics that much we can be certain of but arco, deathcult, sister repentia?

NAVARRO wrote:So... GW doesnt supply metal blisters anymore to anyone... and the official word on this to the fans and to the stores is... absolute silence!

Way to go GW a new low on communication and a new high in frustating EVERYONE who supports them.

And people call me overly cynical and 'unrealistic' when I point out the endless and repeated communication fails GW seems to throw themselves into with wild (and silent) abandon.

NAVARRO wrote:Good way to push me to buy metals from other companies

No kidding. I bought my first Privateer Press model the other day (that new Skorne guy with the huge blade/claws).

GW North America just finished their quarterly retail conference, this time in the Memphis HQ. When managers asked about the rumored change in casting materials, i.e., the discontinuation of pewter alloy, the response they got was basically this: look around at the tons of raw pewter alloy still sitting here waiting to be poured, there are no current plans to drop pewter alloy as a production material.

Remember, independent retailers have not been given a lot of detail here either. They've been advised they can't re-order a lot of (mostly metal) kits, but beyond that they also have not been advised of the long-term plan here. Supposedly there is some big announcement coming in mid-May at which time we'll all hopefully know a lot more.

I bet the sky will fall and the ground will cave in.

So in short, a good day overall for another GW rumor.

I would bet my first born that these aren't being discontinued full stop, switch to resin.

winnertakesall wrote:I would bet my first born that these aren't being discontinued full stop, switch to resin.

Would you also throw in that hypnotoad as well?

Interesting news. I haven't played GW games in ages, but it's still weird to see so much being discontinued/changed to resin/etc. I hope they find a way to maybe make some of the kits cheaper. I was toying with the idea of getting back into orcs and goblins when the news of the orc boys repackaging hit - and there went that idea. I'd love it if the higher-up at GW found some business sense and a way to keep veteran players as well as just going after the tweens.

My guess is they're repackaging stuff, removing as many blisters as possible and moving to box sets or direct only for the crappy selling things. Retailers can still order direct only models, in the US anyway. They just don't get as good of a discount.

I wouldn't mind seeing blisters go for most things. Like squig hoppers for example... you get 2 in a blister, but you need 5 for a unit, so that means you need 6 blisters to start with. I'd rather they were in a small box of 5.

I really hope they don't move to resin, I don't wanna wear a gas mask when I work on my models :(

look around at the tons of raw pewter alloy still sitting here waiting to be poured, there are no current plans to drop pewter alloy as a production material.

Mmm. In their casting, both UK and US, they use over 500 tons of alloy a year (source - GW investor's guide). That's about 40 tons a month. They could actually have an awful lot 'lying about' and in fact not have more than a few months supply (and they're unlikely to hold too much advance stock of metal anyway as you don't want to store more than you need to have a decent reserve. In short 'look how much alloy we have lying about' is not equivalent to 'we'll be casting in pewter for years yet'.

Obviously we cannot be certain that metal is doomed, they could simply be changing their sales policy for other reasons.

That's a valid point and it's not like GW never conceals plans from their own employees, all big corporations do that. I'm really not sure what to think at this point, but I thought it was a fact worth reporting as a point of interest in this emerging mystery.

Yes, nothing can be certain -- except that GW always play things very close. I do think their relatively poor showing financially in the last couple of years is probably causing them to reevaluate their business model and whatever happens with metal, the way GW market and sell is going to undergo (possibly radical) overhaul.

Is there any word on the battlefleet Gothic models?

Aye, the Specialist Games stuff worries me a little, will they even bother repackaging it, or will it just suffer a quiet death with the changeover to resin.

The change to resin, if it occurs, will be a disaster on all fronts for GW. They have NO IDEA how much it will be opposed and how quickly people will buy from other companies. The only win/win scenario is 100% plastics or something very close.

Ufortunately, I expect them to slip under the radar and die, unless GW does some sort of suprise release similar to space hulk.

Well if I were a company like GW, looking at a previously highly successful but now rather stuttering business model with raw material costs rising and likely to rise further (true for both metal and plastic), and thinking long-term, I'd be actively seeking a material that will do the job and be cheap in ten years time.

I'd look at the customer base and see it's largely dominated by mid-term loyal customers (start in their early teens, quit when they leave school or university) with a minority of harder core long-term loyalists, who are not insignificant becaus etheir longevity as customers makes up in part for their small numbers.

I'd ideally want to keep both onside, but the frmer are a renewable resource -- so long as I keep the background stuff appealing to them and the models affordable to middle-class incomes (parents financing the hobby, or at the least allowing the working teen/student to spend a lot of earnings on hobby stuff).

I'd look at the range of games and immediately can all but the core of 40K, Fantasy and (possibly) LotR. This would free up resources and open the way to selling computer-game versions of Space Hulk, etc which would prove more popular generally and could feed people into the main hobby.

I'd drop metal pretty much as soon as reserves are used up, sell through quickly (hopefully sales fed by last minute buying panic) an dmove to an entirely plastic and resin/polymer range, with a long term view to dropping plastics too as soon as practical.

I'd keep prioduction US?UK based because costs in China and India are only going to be rising, whereas the US and UK are likely to see real drops in wages/standards of living over the next decade. It would also help to have quality control right under head office's nose -- it's always risky to outsource when changing materials.

I'd also be looking to target the rising middle classes in India and China (in a few years, and look to tailoring to meet that). As those markets expand, if they do, that would be the moment to consider opening production there.

Why do I suspect FW-level prices for everything turning to resin?

They have NO IDEA how much it will be opposed and how quickly people will buy from other companies.

I beg to differ, I think GW have a very good idea of the potential problems.

It will be opposed by a relatively small proportion of their customer base, many of whom will be reconciled if more plastics are forthcoming in fairly short order

Skarboy wrote:The change to resin, if it occurs, will be a disaster on all fronts for GW. They have NO IDEA how much it will be opposed and how quickly people will buy from other companies. The only win/win scenario is 100% plastics or something very close.

I'd rather they change to resin with an open market than direct-only metals.

Considering the amount of problems FW has with warped models and so forth, I'm a bit surprised at this move. It's much easier to bend a bent metal arm than to use hot water and so on to bent a warped piece of resin. Not exactly friendly to those new to wargaming, you know, the target demographic of GW.

Not to mention that any modding that you want to do will require you to wear protective masks etc. They'll have to put a disclaimer on the kits just like back in the days of lead.

Skarboy wrote:The change to resin, if it occurs, will be a disaster on all fronts for GW. They have NO IDEA how much it will be opposed and how quickly people will buy from other companies. The only win/win scenario is 100% plastics or something very close.

I know. I can imagine it now....

Little Timmy: 'Daddy, I want the Space Marine sternguard box!'
Dad: 'All right Little Timmy, let me just take a loo- HOMG, it's made entirely out of resin! What are these fiends playing at!? Come on Little Timmy, we're going to the internet to get you into Battletech instead!'
*drags Little Timmy out*

No doubt the scene will play out in GW stores all across the world. Before you know it, within two months, GW's control over the miniatures market will be forever shattered, as they begin a swift descent into bankruptcy. A great wailing and a gnashing of teeth will be heard from Nottingham, as spectral disembodied management voices bemoan:

'Alas! If only we had listened to Skarboy and stayed with metal! Who could have predicted such a catastrophe would arise from simply making the same identical model out of a different material? If only it hadn't been for those pesky kids and their meddling dog, we would have gotten away with it too!'

But that was just the beginning. No-one had anticipated the scale to which it would be 'opposed', indeed, that opposition formed a new organisation called the Syndicate, a terrible mafia like gang which began to show up other miniatures retailers across the globe.

'We hear you've been selling toy soldiers made out of resin...' would be the last thing many an aspiring games designer would hear, shortly after establishing their first online webstore.

The chaos and anarchy only grew from there. The Syndicate progressed into eliminating the makers of custom resin bases shortly afterwards, and amassing enough political power to have resin and all other petroleum based products banned altogether. The ensuing chaos in the world economy from the fallout in the oil stocks and shares resulted in governments being overthrown, acts of mass genocide, and finally, the last World War, culminating in a catastrophic nuclear exchange later to be known as the 'Resin Wars' (as the quote was taken by a later post from Scarboy, 'Begun the Resin Wars have').

And all this could have been avoided if GW had stuck with metal.....