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Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Warboss ZanZag wrote:As an Ork playier and very CC oriented person, so starting on IG as they are pure shooty or almost would deffinetly bore me

Don't be so sure. Fielding a force of Furious-Charging Guardsmen more numerous than any Ork army of equal points can easily become great fun!

In fact, when I finally do Guard (ie, when I *happen* to come upon £400 ) I intend to run a few 30-50 man blobs with Straken to compliment my tanks and mech vets.. because as much as shooting is fun; you can't beat a good whack 'em up!

Ive always loved Guardsmen! Having an army of of Guardsmen who protecting the Empire! Fighting foes equal the might and strengths of Space Marines, be it Xenos or Heretics it doesn't matter! For the Imperial Guards is the Emperor's Hammer!

So yeah i could maby see the fun in having a huge amount of Guardsmen but when i am in CC it gets my blood boiling and sometimes imagine the slaughter that my Orks render there enemy's. And shooting is kinde just throwing some dices and i hit and kill some... Maby?.. I don't know.. Really never tryed shooty before as i play Orks.

Maby i should try collect a good 1000pt Infantry Heavy IG army just for the kicks? What do you think?

OP if you're being serious I think you need to reconsider your army choice. Imperial Guard players need to be aware that their ultimate strength is the immense firepower they possess. That said, the Codex just gives you this epic armoury. You need to be able to command it as it should be commanded and annihilate your enemies before it gets to the point where you worry about close combat.

Kaskrin123 wrote:KK thanks guys im playin my friend tomorow ill drop some leman russ and take a large and lethal command sqaud. so thanks!

A "large and lethal" command squad really isn't large or lethal. They don't have the numbers to win through attrition and don't pack enough punch to kill things quickly, at least in CC.

Warboss ZanZag wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Warboss ZanZag wrote:As an Ork playier and very CC oriented person, so starting on IG as they are pure shooty or almost would deffinetly bore me

Don't be so sure. Fielding a force of Furious-Charging Guardsmen more numerous than any Ork army of equal points can easily become great fun!

In fact, when I finally do Guard (ie, when I *happen* to come upon £400 ) I intend to run a few 30-50 man blobs with Straken to compliment my tanks and mech vets.. because as much as shooting is fun; you can't beat a good whack 'em up!

Ive always loved Guardsmen! Having an army of of Guardsmen who protecting the Empire! Fighting foes equal the might and strengths of Space Marines, be it Xenos or Heretics it doesn't matter! For the Imperial Guards is the Emperor's Hammer!

So yeah i could maby see the fun in having a huge amount of Guardsmen but when i am in CC it gets my blood boiling and sometimes imagine the slaughter that my Orks render there enemy's. And shooting is kinde just throwing some dices and i hit and kill some... Maby?.. I don't know.. Really never tryed shooty before as i play Orks.

Maby i should try collect a good 1000pt Infantry Heavy IG army just for the kicks? What do you think?

Catachans. 'nuff said, pretty much . And Marbo.. Just look at the front of the Catachan battleforce for inspiration.

What's more.. Straken can order a 50 man blob to fire 150 Lasgun shots at 12" range (!!!), or have them charge in with 115 S4 I4 attacks! Add in a Commissar with a power weapon and add power weapons on all Sergeant's.. 100 S4 I4 attacks and 18 S4 I4 Power Weapon attacks from 51 Stubborn Imperial Guardsmen! Very powerful indeed, especially with 5x Plasma- or Melta- guns and 5x Las- or Auto- cannons thrown in..

..but then you imagine having four or five such squads in a 1,500 Point game, alongside one or two LRBTs and a Vendetta.. Straken the S6 human and Marbo the I5 human jumping from the foliage to butcher their hapless foes!

Convinced yet? Convinced to drop £600 on GW yet?

IG don't need better CC units. Blobs that can Al-Raheem outflank, or sit statically, take a double fistful of powerweapons and laugh off lost combat with stubborn and rerolls....doing fine, just fine...

Darkvoidof40k wrote:What's more.. Straken can order a 50 man blob to fire 150 Lasgun shots at 12" range (!!!), or have them charge in with 115 S4 I4 attacks!

Have you ever tried to get 50 man blobs to do this? It is stupidly unworkable to use 50 at once, they take up too much space and it is impossible to get them all within 12" or into combat at once. I think that 20-30 is a much better size to play with.

martin74 wrote:i do agree that IG should never be in CC, and expect to win.

My vets win combats at a pretty decent rate...

No they don't. They are a shooting vehicle using army. They don't need to be any more OP. You don't get the best of both worlds, or everyone would play that codex.

I made the mistake of thinking that Guard were bad at CC. Then a 30 man blob beat my Daemon Prince to death with the butts of their rifles.

In the old days in the old Codex, I believe that Catachans when they had their own rules were pretty good in close combat

but other then that, Catachan special characters like Marbo and Harker are good CC units

Also Ogryns, priests, Comissars(especially Yarrick) and Penal Legionnaires are all good close combat units

But the best way to play guard is to be as shooty as possible

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Warboss ZanZag wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Warboss ZanZag wrote:As an Ork playier and very CC oriented person, so starting on IG as they are pure shooty or almost would deffinetly bore me

Don't be so sure. Fielding a force of Furious-Charging Guardsmen more numerous than any Ork army of equal points can easily become great fun!

In fact, when I finally do Guard (ie, when I *happen* to come upon £400 ) I intend to run a few 30-50 man blobs with Straken to compliment my tanks and mech vets.. because as much as shooting is fun; you can't beat a good whack 'em up!

Ive always loved Guardsmen! Having an army of of Guardsmen who protecting the Empire! Fighting foes equal the might and strengths of Space Marines, be it Xenos or Heretics it doesn't matter! For the Imperial Guards is the Emperor's Hammer!

So yeah i could maby see the fun in having a huge amount of Guardsmen but when i am in CC it gets my blood boiling and sometimes imagine the slaughter that my Orks render there enemy's. And shooting is kinde just throwing some dices and i hit and kill some... Maby?.. I don't know.. Really never tryed shooty before as i play Orks.

Maby i should try collect a good 1000pt Infantry Heavy IG army just for the kicks? What do you think?

Catachans. 'nuff said, pretty much . And Marbo.. Just look at the front of the Catachan battleforce for inspiration.

What's more.. Straken can order a 50 man blob to fire 150 Lasgun shots at 12" range (!!!), or have them charge in with 115 S4 I4 attacks! Add in a Commissar with a power weapon and add power weapons on all Sergeant's.. 100 S4 I4 attacks and 18 S4 I4 Power Weapon attacks from 51 Stubborn Imperial Guardsmen! Very powerful indeed, especially with 5x Plasma- or Melta- guns and 5x Las- or Auto- cannons thrown in..

..but then you imagine having four or five such squads in a 1,500 Point game, alongside one or two LRBTs and a Vendetta.. Straken the S6 human and Marbo the I5 human jumping from the foliage to butcher their hapless foes!

Convinced yet? Convinced to drop £600 on GW yet?

What are you doing you evil man? Seducing me to poverty?

But it doesn't sound bad! I must say having 150 Lasguns firing that result in.. Well ALOT of attacks as you just described sounds really thrilling! And having two LRBT's are really getting me. Always loved LRBT's tanks! Most awesome verichle in the game! Except from the Land Speeder. Always thought that it was the coolest.

Anyway. I am more a Cadia type to to correct or rather. Armagaddon Steel Legion to be totally correct so.. The Problem is also that if i want to start on a IG army i already decided long ago that.. Well Armagaddon Steel Legion is the way to go! Even so they are Tank Heavy i always loved the fluff and models.. I am a fluff guy

But thanks for pointing out once again how awesome IG is... This hobby is gonna be the death of me

martin74 wrote:i do agree that IG should never be in CC, and expect to win. However, there are a few units that can do CC with some effectiveness. those being ogryns, rough riders, and to some extent, the penial legion squad (just keep a lord commissar nearby).

Yet, if GW can make a kit like the dreadknight which looks like some guy holding a baby in a pouch in front of him, why couldn't the IG get hold of something similar to that. Dont give me "the GK are able to gain access to the most potent armoury" b.s. all you GK fanboys are about. Just saying, the one thing IG can do is make tanks, artillery, and other engines of war effectively.

The GK are able to gain access to the most potent armoury. There, I said it. The Imperial Guard don't get Dreadknights because:

1: They're not Terminators. You don't link up your average human to a machine like that and hope they live.

2: Considering the complexity of the Dreadknight (fluff-wise) they're probably more expensive than several Guard regiments put together. You don't give that kind of wargear to your average army force when the special forces hasn't gotten it yet.

For someone who calls other people "fanboys" you sure don't know much about your own fluff. The Imperial Guard doesn't produce ANYTHING. That would be the Manufactorum. Soon you'll complain that the Imperial Guard doesn't get it's own Titans or Battleships.

Trickstick wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:What's more.. Straken can order a 50 man blob to fire 150 Lasgun shots at 12" range (!!!), or have them charge in with 115 S4 I4 attacks!

Have you ever tried to get 50 man blobs to do this? It is stupidly unworkable to use 50 at once, they take up too much space and it is impossible to get them all within 12" or into combat at once. I think that 20-30 is a much better size to play with.

I merely said that they can theoretically do it; I mentioned nothing of the actual practicality of it.

Yeah i just played my friend and he has orks and i did win because i was using first rank second rank every turn and bringing it down so thanks guys also i just ordered 10 RR and 3 orgyrn

Kaskrin123 wrote: i just ordered 10 RR and 3 orgyrn

Bloodhorror wrote:

Kaskrin123 wrote: i just ordered 10 RR and 3 orgyrn

Stop complaning! The guard arn't ment to be used in close combat, and if they are ogryns ans rough riders will do the job

Guardsmen CC can be done, but they don't do it by being good at it. No, no. Guard CC is done by taking 30-50 man blobs with power weapons and a commissar to keep them from running and swamping the enemy with wounds. They will still die in droves and they still won't kill a ton either, but that's how guard pull it off.

However there is another use for CC with IG: the sacrificial squad. Rather than explain, here's an example. I had a 20-man blob of guardsmen with a pair of autocannons and no commissar (did that on purpose) was located on a nice open area blocked by a building on one side (spearhead deployment). Was fighting against Eldar and the autocannon managed to wreck a pair of vehicles, so they did their job already. Two wave serpents (one with banshees and the other with wraithguard) along with and some jetbikes w/ jetbike HQ make it past the building in a following turn the Banshees and Jetbike crew manage to assault the blob.

Blob prompty loses combat, falls back, and gets wiped out. Mediocre consolidation rolls leave my opponent with three full squads and an HQ in the open in plain sight of the rest of my army. All the banshees die to heavy flamer chimeras. Most of the wraithguard go down to plasma. Bikes go down to demolisher fire and the HQ dies from an instant-death hit. And lasguns kill off a few more models.

By sacrificing a 120 point 20-man squad I managed to wipe out a huge chunk of the enemy because they won combat in their movement phase and were stuck in the open.

That's how IG do CC. Sacrifice units to give yourself a better shooting opportunity. Let the enemy assault you, don't assault the enemy (unless going the power blob route).

Kaskrin123 wrote:Yeah i just played my friend and he has orks and i did win because i was using first rank second rank every turn and bringing it down so thanks guys also i just ordered 10 RR and 3 orgyrn

Please use correct punctuation. As a fellow countryman of 19 you're making me look bad

OT: IG have a few CC units but I never would expect them to excel at CC unless you just through 50 man blobs with PW and flamers everywhere and hoped it did something.

Ogryns can be a speed bump but I just don't think htey have that type of unit. Besides, who wants to get into CC with your opponent. IG units are tarpits for themost part.

Melissia wrote:

martin74 wrote:i do agree that IG should never be in CC, and expect to win.

My vets win combats at a pretty decent rate...

not saying that IG cant win CC. Just that a ten man squad (infantry,vets, or stormtroopers) will not win against a 10 man marine squad/necron/ orks or most other armies. the only close combat option realy is ogryns, and that comes at a crazy cost.

my melta/shotgun vets with demolitions can charge a dreadnought or vehicles and win, i just dont expect them to win any other time.

My flamer/shotgun vets with carapace win assaults on marine squads frequently. Just like with my Sisters, the key is causing enough casualties before the assault that you drastically reduce the amount of attacks the enemy has to deal with.

Guard has a far easier time doing this than Sisters.

OP: maybe try penal legion squads and attach priests to them or something.

Noisy_Marine wrote:Guard and Close Combat don't go in the same sentence. That's like saying Khorne Berzerkers need better shooting.

I'll show all of you! 15 Ogryns! 2 Lord Commissars! 30 rough riders! I"LL SHOW ALL OF YOU THAT GUARD CAN DO CLOSE COMBAT.

No, really. I will. Calvary are coming in this week.