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purplefood wrote:Not all fungi photosynthesize...
It would be useful if Orks did and if they did it was definitely intentional but just because they are fungi doesn't mean they can photosynthesize...

And yet, it's far more likely that they can than that they can't, as they do not need to breathe.

Melissia wrote:

purplefood wrote:Not all fungi photosynthesize...
It would be useful if Orks did and if they did it was definitely intentional but just because they are fungi doesn't mean they can photosynthesize...

And yet, it's far more likely that they can than that they can't, as they do not need to breathe.

Fair enough they probably can photosynthesize.
Orks are more than likely tougher than Orcs...
How much tougher i don't know.

I'm probably biased and don't get me wrong I like fantasy but I think anything in 40k would pretty much destroy its fantasy counterpart. Just my humble opinion

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:That assumes that Orks bleed as long as humans do, which there's no real reason to believe given that they don't have the same kind of blood we do (Ork blood being full of fungus, spores, etc).

Orks are designed for war, to be tough as nails. Certainly they don't have the same frailty for blood loss as we humans do, or even as Marines do. Especially the bigger ones, but not JUST them.

It doesn't matter what the ork blood consist of you still need a heart to keep the bood circulating. Your heart is still going to keep beating even with massive bood loss (bolter shot to gut) which is going to be detrimental

to your blood circulation meaning the brain is going to be deprived of it's life support which will cause the ork to faint and evntually die.

The lore doesn't support this conclusion.

Orks take grievous wounds and then eventually get up to fight some more-- including massive blood loss (for example, in the Cain books, an Ork is gutted to the point where his guts are hanging out and his head smashed in, and yet he still gets back up and destroys a Necron warrior after the stun of the hits wears off). Orks have been decapitated and then had their head put back on-- a day or tow later, not immediately-- the WRONG body and survived. Caving an inferior's skull in is a common punishment, and yet it isn't lethal.

Okay for the second part the ork would need a reservoir that contains at least 14,400 liters (probably more) of blood just to have enough blood to function for two days while bleeding. Which is impossible given there

body shape.

Yes, they would need that if they had a human anatomy, and if they had human blood, and if they had the same human need for blood.

You yet lack the comprehension that Orks are truly alien beings, not designed by the chance of fate and natural selection, but instead designed intentionally from the ground up by what basically amounts to gods, in a galaxy whose laws of physics can be altered by psychic power-- which Orks have in a limited extend through their gestalt psychic field.

40k for sure, there fungus people. Self healing, and every ork that dies puts out a sudden spore burst to make more orks. At least in fluff...

Melissia wrote:Yes, they would need that if they had a human anatomy, and if they had human blood, and if they had the same human need for blood.

You yet lack the comprehension that Orks are truly alien beings, not designed by the chance of fate and natural selection, but instead designed intentionally from the ground up by what basically amounts to gods, in a galaxy whose laws of physics can be altered by psychic power-- which Orks have in a limited extend through their gestalt psychic field.

I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

Blood isn't just used solely for gas exchange it transports white blood cells (essential for fighting diseases), platelets (needed for healing) and nutrients (chemicals the body needs in order to live and grow) as well. Also

my statement is still correct because those invertebrates still have blood but it relies on hemocyanin, hemerythrin, hemerythrin or vanabins instead of hemoglobin.

Hymolymph isn't considered blood. It's actually closer to interstitial fluid than blood.

Melissia wrote:Hymolymph isn't considered blood. It's actually closer to interstitial fluid than blood.

It functions as both blood and interstitial fluid, either way there's probably a reason why you only see it in invertebrates.

Cheesecat wrote:

purplefood wrote:Probably best to ask Fantasy peepz...
AFAIK I'm not entirely sure, i think they are stronger and probably don't fel as much pain as humans but i think a bolt shell to the gut would put one down.

Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located.

None of the organs would be near him, so yearh thats true. a bolter round effectively blows you apart in a shower of meat and bone splinters.

As for the orks and the orcs in fantasy being the same id like to point out that the orcs actually used to have females and that their breeding methods havent been mentioned in any of the fluff (to my knowledge). I know people love to draw parallels to fantasy and 40k but i dont think that they 2 races are actually the same.
Consider grots and goblins. In 40k they are little more then slaves and food. In fantasy they have shamans and leaders just like the orcs and seem to have entire communities that are not dependent on orc rulership.

As for fantasy being in the 40k world as another planet, even if that is so, it could be in an entirely different galaxy or even universe. It could be happening millions of years before the imperium of man, or after its gone. Theres just no way of knowing.

They aren't that powerful...
Oh no...

I like to think orcs and orks are just as tough and have the same way of reproduction but unfortunately there's no way to be really sure on either of those topics because GW doesn't really talk about it.

Cheesecat wrote:

purplefood wrote:Probably best to ask Fantasy peepz...
AFAIK I'm not entirely sure, i think they are stronger and probably don't fel as much pain as humans but i think a bolt shell to the gut would put one down.

Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located.

I'm fairly sure that you die if you leave a bullet to the stomach wound (ie don't seek medical attention) because it ruptures the lining and the stomach enzymes leak out and 'digest' the inside of your body

115th Cadian Shock Troops wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

purplefood wrote:Probably best to ask Fantasy peepz...
AFAIK I'm not entirely sure, i think they are stronger and probably don't fel as much pain as humans but i think a bolt shell to the gut would put one down.

Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located.

I'm fairly sure that you die if you leave a bullet to the stomach wound (ie don't seek medical attention) because it ruptures the lining and the stomach enzymes leak out and 'digest' the inside of your body

A human would but it's not just the stomach that has those enzymes... they also wouldn't be able to digest all of you.
Orks however... hell knows what they use.

tarnish wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

purplefood wrote:Probably best to ask Fantasy peepz...
AFAIK I'm not entirely sure, i think they are stronger and probably don't fel as much pain as humans but i think a bolt shell to the gut would put one down.

Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located.

None of the organs would be near him, so yearh thats true. a bolter round effectively blows you apart in a shower of meat and bone splinters.

As for the orks and the orcs in fantasy being the same id like to point out that the orcs actually used to have females and that their breeding methods havent been mentioned in any of the fluff (to my knowledge). I know people love to draw parallels to fantasy and 40k but i dont think that they 2 races are actually the same.
Consider grots and goblins. In 40k they are little more then slaves and food. In fantasy they have shamans and leaders just like the orcs and seem to have entire communities that are not dependent on orc rulership.

As for fantasy being in the 40k world as another planet, even if that is so, it could be in an entirely different galaxy or even universe. It could be happening millions of years before the imperium of man, or after its gone. Theres just no way of knowing.

*Ahem*
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rebel_Grots
40k Grots do have their own Kulture!
Also, Melissia is mostly correct, the Orks are a designed race and are completely different from anything we can imagine, the fact that they are 'humanoid' is merely because when they were created it was thought that humanoid was the most efficient body design (although saying that, i think that is still thought to be true).

Cheesecat wrote:Blood isn't just used solely for gas exchange it transports white blood cells (essential for fighting diseases), platelets (needed for healing) and nutrients (chemicals the body needs in order to live and grow) as well. Also

my statement is still correct because those invertebrates still have blood but it relies on hemocyanin, hemerythrin, hemerythrin or vanabins instead of hemoglobin.

Orks aren't animals... or invertebrates. They're a animal-plant-hybrid specifically built to wage war.

Being a fungus, they don't use white blood cells. They're not really subject to most infections or diseases. Being a fungus, they're not subject to oxygen deprivation, as orks can, and will, "swim" across the void of space to attack, in melee, other vessels. Especially if their home ship suffers hull-breaching damage and they happen to find themselves sucked out into space.

Orks don't generally "bleed out" over time. They might suffer sufficient bolter hits to, in effect, cause their bodies to explode in a shower of meaty pulp-bits... and thus die from a range of traumas... but it would have to be a grievous wound, indeed, to cause an orc to bleed to death.

Revenent Reiko wrote:
*Ahem*
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rebel_Grots
40k Grots do have their own Kulture!

they sure do but their physiology is linked to the other orkoids in the race structure. theres no proof of this in the fantasy version, which was actually my point. if the goblins get along fine without the orks it might suggest that they infact are a seperate species in fantasy.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Orkoid_physiology <---- this might be helpfull.

tarnish wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:
*Ahem*
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rebel_Grots
40k Grots do have their own Kulture!

they sure do but their physiology is linked to the other orkoids in the race structure. theres no proof of this in the fantasy version, which was actually my point. if the goblins get along fine without the orks it might suggest that they infact are a seperate species in fantasy.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Orkoid_physiology <---- this might be helpfull.

I know dude, i just wanted to show the Rebel Grots

Hummie blud ~ Red, iron based.
Crustacean blood ~ light blue, copper based.
Plant blood ~ green, magnesium based.

Orkoid blud ~ black, ?????? based?

Plant 'blood' isn't green...
They get the colour from chlorophyll.
Plants use water for general conveyance of stuff

purplefood wrote:Plant 'blood' isn't green...
They get the colour from chlorophyll.
Plants use water for general conveyance of stuff

*Runs off to Wikipedia*

UselessSage wrote:

purplefood wrote:Plant 'blood' isn't green...
They get the colour from chlorophyll.
Plants use water for general conveyance of stuff

*Runs off to Wikipedia*

Who says British education is rubbish...

purplefood wrote:Who says British education is rubbish...

At least they still call what you limys get an "education".
Here in 'merca they are about to give up and call it "young consumer daycare".

UselessSage wrote:

purplefood wrote:Who says British education is rubbish...

At least they still call what you limys get an "education".
Here in 'merca they are about to give up and call it "young consumer daycare".

That sounds bad...

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

With the Ork leaking blood (because of bolter shot at gut) proper cellular respiration (due to a significant amount of disconnected veins, capillaries and arteries) won't be able to occur meaning it will start to lose one

of it's waste products carbon dioxide (the chemical essential to photosynthesis). This lack of carbon dioxide will make it impossible for photosynthesis to occur so both forms of respiration are effectively eliminated for

the ork.

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:That assumes that Orks bleed as long as humans do, which there's no real reason to believe given that they don't have the same kind of blood we do (Ork blood being full of fungus, spores, etc).

Orks are designed for war, to be tough as nails. Certainly they don't have the same frailty for blood loss as we humans do, or even as Marines do. Especially the bigger ones, but not JUST them.

It doesn't matter what the ork blood consist of you still need a heart to keep the bood circulating. Your heart is still going to keep beating even with massive bood loss (bolter shot to gut) which is going to be detrimental

to your blood circulation meaning the brain is going to be deprived of it's life support which will cause the ork to faint and evntually die.

The lore doesn't support this conclusion.

Orks take grievous wounds and then eventually get up to fight some more-- including massive blood loss (for example, in the Cain books, an Ork is gutted to the point where his guts are hanging out and his head smashed in, and yet he still gets back up and destroys a Necron warrior after the stun of the hits wears off). Orks have been decapitated and then had their head put back on-- a day or tow later, not immediately-- the WRONG body and survived. Caving an inferior's skull in is a common punishment, and yet it isn't lethal.

*gulp*

As a vegetarian I will never look at my Shitake mushrooms the same way again...

Guess I'll stick to beans... unless there's a 'Legume' warrior out there somewhere in the 40k universe.

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

With the Ork leaking blood (because of bolter shot at gut) proper cellular respiration (due to a significant amount of disconnected veins, capillaries and arteries) won't be able to occur meaning it will start to lose one

of it's waste products carbon dioxide (the chemical essential to photosynthesis). This lack of carbon dioxide will make it impossible for photosynthesis to occur so both forms of respiration are effectively eliminated for

the ork.

And yet, they often survive anyway. Why? Because they're Orks, that's why, and that's what Orks do, they survive to fight another day.

All of the scientific mumbo-jumbo of how plants or fungi or animals do this, that and the other thing with blood, chlorophyll or whatever doesn't matter, because it doesn't apply to a sentient, fungoid-animal designed as the ultimate weapon of mass destruction by a race of god-like alien beings.

Psienesis wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

With the Ork leaking blood (because of bolter shot at gut) proper cellular respiration (due to a significant amount of disconnected veins, capillaries and arteries) won't be able to occur meaning it will start to lose one

of it's waste products carbon dioxide (the chemical essential to photosynthesis). This lack of carbon dioxide will make it impossible for photosynthesis to occur so both forms of respiration are effectively eliminated for

the ork.

And yet, they often survive anyway. Why? Because they're Orks, that's why, and that's what Orks do, they survive to fight another day.

All of the scientific mumbo-jumbo of how plants or fungi or animals do this, that and the other thing with blood, chlorophyll or whatever doesn't matter, because it doesn't apply to a sentient, fungoid-animal designed as the ultimate weapon of mass destruction by a race of god-like alien beings.

It does apply if they want to be living.