40k orks vs fantasy orks

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**Fafnir**

The fact that they want to be living and think they should be living is enough to keep them living, regardless of injuries.

Orks are kind of cool that way.

**purplefood**

Cheesecat wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.
I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

With the Ork leaking blood (because of bolter shot at gut) proper cellular respiration (due to a significant amount of disconnected veins, capillaries and arteries) won't be able to occur meaning it will start to lose one

of it's waste products carbon dioxide (the chemical essential to photosynthesis). This lack of carbon dioxide will make it impossible for photosynthesis to occur so both forms of respiration are effectively eliminated for

the ork.

And yet, they often survive anyway. Why? Because they're Orks, that's why, and that's what Orks do, they survive to fight another day.

All of the scientific mumbo-jumbo of how plants or fungi or animals do this, that and the other thing with blood, chlorophyll or whatever doesn't matter, because it doesn't apply to a sentient, fungoid-animal designed as the ultimate weapon of mass destruction by a race of god-like alien beings.

It does apply if they want to be living.

We have seen Orks defy physics countless times.
Living for a bit longer after suffering a mortal wound should be relatively easy for them to do.

**martin74**

i have seen a game of fantasy orks and 40k orks going against eachother. not sure what rules editions, but, they were evenly matched. it was fun to see.

**Cheesecat**

purplefood wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.
I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

With the Ork leaking blood (because of bolter shot at gut) proper cellular respiration (due to a significant amount of disconnected veins, capillaries and arteries) won't be able to occur meaning it will start to lose one

of it's waste products carbon dioxide (the chemical essential to photosynthesis). This lack of carbon dioxide will make it impossible for photosynthesis to occur so both forms of respiration are effectively eliminated for

the ork.

And yet, they often survive anyway. Why? Because they're Orks, that's why, and that's what Orks do, they survive to fight another day.

All of the scientific mumbo-jumbo of how plants or fungi or animals do this, that and the other thing with blood, chlorophyll or whatever doesn't matter, because it doesn't apply to a sentient, fungoid-animal designed as the ultimate weapon of mass destruction by a race of god-like alien beings.

It does apply if they want to be living.

We have seen Orks defy physics countless times.
Living for a bit longer after suffering a mortal wound should be relatively easy for them to do.

I have no problem with that.

**crocodoom**

I believe they can, as they are the same species

**tarnish**

you can actually cut the head of a 40k ork and plant it in the ground. theres a picture of it in the ork codex. they also describe how they can survive having the head cut off and then reattached after several hours.

**Melissia**

Try days.

Orks are just that tough. Nasty little buggers, who make Marines look kinda delicate in comparison.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

UselessSage wrote:Orkoid blud ~ black, ?????? based?

Fungus-based blood. It's also why it smells so damn bad.

**Anvildude**

Not to mention that it's not just the Blood that's working to keep them alive. The fungus is spread throughout their bodies, in all their cells. This means, when they get shot in the gut, and a big meaty chunk is blown out of them, all those little veigns and vesicles that are leaking out 'highly toxic blood substitute' will probably constrict and close up, most likely very, very quickly. Not just clotting, but something akin to cauterization and near-immediate scarring.

Then the Ork just uses its other 3 stomachs and 2 livers to keep living.

**Cheesecat**

Anvildude wrote:Not to mention that it's not just the Blood that's working to keep them alive. The fungus is spread throughout their bodies, in all their cells. This means, when they get shot in the gut, and a big meaty chunk is blown out of them, all those little veigns and vesicles that are leaking out 'highly toxic blood substitute' will probably constrict and close up, most likely very, very quickly. Not just clotting, but something akin to cauterization and near-immediate scarring.

Then the Ork just uses its other 3 stomachs and 2 livers to keep living.

Veins and arteries constrict due to osmotic and blood pressure they do not have there own form of nervous stimuli that reacts to open wounds plus that would contradict the ork fluff of having simple and robust bodies.

**Anvildude**

You couldn't have a biotic material that would constrict upon contact with air?

**Melissia**

Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

**Anvildude**

Well yeah, so theirs would work even better, completely constricting to keep the 'precious' fluid in. I'm on your side, here!

**Psienesis**

I think Melissa is responding to Cheesecat, not you.

I agree, though. These are sci-fi Orks in a sci-fi setting, our understanding of biological systems is meaningless in a fictional setting.

**Lord Magnus**

You can't really compare Orks to humans, they are extremely different, and there are many fluff cases that show orks can survive horrendous injuries, Examples are: Ghazgkull took a bolter shell to the head, which blew part of it off, and lived, Grotsniks brain was exposed for hours, poked prodded, shocked, and vomited in and he survived, Zagstruk had his legs ripped of by a dread, then gnawed through the wiring, Wazzdakka flew through a titan canopy and void shields completly on fire, and lived. Orks can survive almost anything provided you can piece them back together because there are enough pieces.

**tarnish**

Cheesecat: What are you hoping for in this discussion? the minute details of the ork metabolism is at best a mystery. To compare it to anything humanoid is close to impossible and your bound to fail finding justification in science for the way they work. Besides, a lot of other things in 40k are contrary to reality.

**Cheesecat**

Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes which would be a fluff contradiction because Ork bodies are

simple and robust.

**Melissia**

Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes

No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

**alexwars1**

Cheesecat wrote:*most of what he's said*

*headdesk*
They're aliens. They can stich their heads back on. They can survive having their exposed brain puked on, electrecuted and lived in by a spider, and suffer almost no ill effects. I even recall that their blood serves a double duty as their digestive fluid. They probably dont have arteries, just tubes that the blood goes through cause it does. And if it's red, it goes faster. It even congeals really fast into new tissues so the ork can back into the fight. They don't even really need to breathe. They have an alien biology, so just drop comparing them to squishy earth creatures.

**Cheesecat**

Melissia wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes
No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Closing blood vessels that react to open wounds is a reflex reaction not a chemical one.

**purplefood**

Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes
No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Closing blood vessels that react to open wounds is a reflex reaction not a chemical one.

Then clearly they do have a Nervous system...

**Anvildude**

Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes
No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Closing blood vessels that react to open wounds is a reflex reaction not a chemical one.

To quote Lex Luthor:

"WRONG!"

**Melissia**

Right, it doesn't take muscles to close up arteries.

**Cheesecat**

Anvildude wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes
No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Closing blood vessels that react to open wounds is a reflex reaction not a chemical one.

To quote Lex Luthor:

"WRONG!"

Prove it.

**Melissia**

Simple. Our human veins already constrict and relax without nervous input due to them reacting and interacting with the various factors in our circulatory system.

Why should an Ork, whom was designed from the ground up rather than the result of the random hand of fate, not be able to also do this?

**Noir**

Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes
No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Closing blood vessels that react to open wounds is a reflex reaction not a chemical one.

Go cut a tree, see the sap. Is it pouring out of the tree? Plants do not follow the same rules animals do, Orks are both.

**Cheesecat**

Melissia wrote:Simple. Our human veins already constrict and relax without nervous input due to them reacting and interacting with the various factors in our circulatory system.

Why should an Ork, whom was designed from the ground up rather than the result of the random hand of fate, not be able to also do this?

That's due to osmotic and blood pressure, you'll notice that if you had a chopped off arm your blood vessels don't just magically constrict where the wound is they are still leaking lots of blood. For your arteries to do

that it would need a nervous system of it's own something so complex that not even humans much less an ork have.

**Melissia**

No, that's not the only reason for vasodilation/vasoconstriction.

**Cheesecat**

Melissia wrote:No, that's not the only reason for vasodilation/vasoconstriction.

You're right, but getting back to the example of the with the major gut wound how this going to help him properly circulate his blood though?

**Melissia**

For the same reason that they can have their heads lopped off and put back on days later and still be perfectly fine, no brain damage.

**Cheesecat**

Melissia wrote:For the same reason that they can have their heads lopped off and put back on days later and still be perfectly fine, no brain damage.

Never mind just found a solution to the lack of non-circulated blood problem, plants don't actually need much CO2 in the atmosphere to photosynthesize (considering the air we breathe only has 0.0039% of it) so in

most encounters with humans there should be enough sunlight, water and CO2 for the orks for to photosynthesize which will provide the necessary requirements for cellular respiration (what keeps you alive) even if

they can't properly circulate their blood (massive gut wound). But still the ork with hole in his gut will die without intensive care because he won't be able to properly digest food with massive trauma to his intestines.