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Problem if they pull back the price rise for the resin is that the WD with all the new prices has been submitted for printing, and is probably already printed.
They have a 3 month lag for WD.
So all the prices on the resin will be wrong.

If the news on the resin is true - great.
The Southern hemisphere embargo is my biggest concern though.

I sincerely doubt they'd raise and then lower the prices just like that. The people at the top aren't shrewd enough to know when to quit when it comes to jacking people around.

Personally I only see the prices even possibly lowering in a couple of months when GW's numer of sales have plummeted and the people in charge (or at least the slightly more competant ones) see this happening. And even then I can hardly see them actually realizing the problem, knowing the people in charge they'd just raise the prices even more and possibly cut some of their models from production to 'save costs' or some bullgak like that

and bring the prices of their models to a realistic level.

While character models are more expensive, for the most part GW's prices are inline with the rest of the hobby community and modelling community. Look at PP's prices or reapers.

NoBaconz4You wrote:Umadbro?!

Is that English?

Quick to insult others just because they are not doing the same as you?

Not at all. The flurry of poop GW has dropped on all our chests lately should have been more than enough to drive anyone away from them.

I guess some can take more than others, and I just cannot take it anymore...

GW!! YOU ARE TEARING ME APART!!!!

General Hobbs wrote:

and bring the prices of their models to a realistic level.

While character models are more expensive, for the most part GW's prices are inline with the rest of the hobby community and modelling community. Look at PP's prices or reapers.

Taken out of context, yeah.

But keeping the discussion within a semblance of context, my Legion of Everblight army runs, um, 15 - 20 models, max. My Ork Army runs, um, nearly 200 models for the same game length of a few hours? My Dark Eldar, to have any chance of winning, has to run with tons of vehicles. So half the time my models aren't even PLACED on the table. All I see are, ugh... METAL BOXES on the battlefield. And when you try to run models on foots, you then get the mission with 2 Objectives, and you are boned hard.

So in the end, 40k/Fantasy is FAR more expensive than any other table top game I have come across.

Yeah yeah, you can play kill teams and run 500 point armies (which still have more models than a large Warmachine game), but i am talking about a standard 1500 point list.

Kroothawk wrote:
I doubt that GW was ever smart enough to sell their product range in Toys-R-Us.

They did indeed sell via Toys-R-Us and even Argos many moons ago.

Currently they are stocked in Hobby Craft.

One thing I never see mentioned is inflation. In virtually every place that GW products are sold, there is gradual inflation.

Since GW is a British company, I'd point out that the inflation rate there is hovering around 4%. Granted, there are all sorts of complexities in exchange rates, etc. etc. but at the end of the day, many first world countries have an inflation rate hovering around the 3-5% range.

That's yearly.

GW would have to increase their prices by a similar percentage in order to simply maintain real revenue.

I wouldn't claim to know enough about GW's bottom line to say if their current prices are optimal or not, but I find it funny that people are angrily and confidently saying they're "stupid" without exhibiting any awareness of simple/obvious/universal realities such as inflation.

They don't actually. British wage inflation has been running below price inflation for a couple of years. Plastic and metal has been running above. Resin is below (I made that up).

4% inflation justifies a 17% price increase how?

Phryxis wrote:One thing I never see mentioned is inflation. In virtually every place that GW products are sold, there is gradual inflation.

Since GW is a British company, I'd point out that the inflation rate there is hovering around 4%. Granted, there are all sorts of complexities in exchange rates, etc. etc. but at the end of the day, many first world countries have an inflation rate hovering around the 3-5% range.

That's yearly.

GW would have to increase their prices by a similar percentage in order to simply maintain real revenue.

I wouldn't claim to know enough about GW's bottom line to say if their current prices are optimal or not, but I find it funny that people are angrily and confidently saying they're "stupid" without exhibiting any awareness of simple/obvious/universal realities such as inflation.

If they increased their prices in line with the rate of inflation, you wouldn't have the number of threads that appear every year when they do their price increases. People ARE aware of inflation but that simply isn't a justification for the 15%-25% yearly increases some products keep getting.

Phryxis wrote:One thing I never see mentioned is inflation. In virtually every place that GW products are sold, there is gradual inflation.

Since GW is a British company, I'd point out that the inflation rate there is hovering around 4%. Granted, there are all sorts of complexities in exchange rates, etc. etc. but at the end of the day, many first world countries have an inflation rate hovering around the 3-5% range.

That's yearly.

GW would have to increase their prices by a similar percentage in order to simply maintain real revenue.

I wouldn't claim to know enough about GW's bottom line to say if their current prices are optimal or not, but I find it funny that people are angrily and confidently saying they're "stupid" without exhibiting any awareness of simple/obvious/universal realities such as inflation.

Red herring. GW raises their prices by far MORE then inflation. Just look at the last sheet of increases thats from 4% to 25%! TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT. Which is far far far above inflation.

Further, those "comlpexities" you mentioned, dont come much into play. See Canadian prices and Australian Prices, which have no corolation between exchange rates and pricing.


I find it sad you dont seem to understand whats going on. Hell I dont think you even understand inflation at all.

If they increased their prices in line with the rate of inflation, you wouldn't have the number of threads that appear every year when they do their price increases. People ARE aware of inflation but that simply isn't a justification for the 15%-25% yearly increases some products keep getting.

I doubt that. People find a way to complain about everything.

4% inflation justifies a 17% price increase how?

Are GW prices increasing by 17% a year? My impression is that these price hikes only come along every 2-3 years.

Even if that's not the case, people are describing hikes of 5% in some cases, more in others. My point is that 4% a year is, essentially, "holding steady."

People can claim that they're TOTALLY factoring in inflation when they register their loudly enraged complaints, but I never seem to see the phrase "adjusted for inflation," and instead I see a lot of this:

I find it sad you dont seem to understand whats going on. Hell I dont think you even understand inflation at all.

Right, good point, I'm pretty sure that level of hostility is completely justified.

carmachu wrote:
Red herring. GW raises their prices by far MORE then inflation. Just look at the last sheet of increases thats from 4% to 25%! TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT. Which is far far far above inflation.

On some specific models. Other items have no increase at all. What is the overall increase? Not 25%, I know that much.

I went to my GW shelf and looked for a box of something that was still sealed and had a price tag. I found Cadian Shock troops for $22. I purchased that around the time of the release of the Codex, almost exactly 2 years ago.

Current price on Amazon is 24.15. That's an increase of 9.7%, closely in line with the inflation rate of the GBP over that time period.

Now, again, I'm not saying that GW has exactly kept pace with inflation, and all the complaints are completely wrong. I'm just saying that there's a big difference between a 15% increase and a 5% increase, and there should be a lot more usage of the phrase "adjusted for inflation," and a lot less usage of the questionable economic theory of "OMG UR STOOPID, LERN 2 MACROECON PLS LOL."

Phryxis wrote:I went to my GW shelf and looked for a box of something that was still sealed and had a price tag. I found Cadian Shock troops for $22. I purchased that around the time of the release of the Codex, almost exactly 2 years ago.

Current price on Amazon is 24.15. That's an increase of 9.7%, closely in line with the inflation rate of the GBP over that time period.

Now, again, I'm not saying that GW has exactly kept pace with inflation, and all the complaints are completely wrong. I'm just saying that there's a big difference between a 15% increase and a 5% increase, and there should be a lot more usage of the phrase "adjusted for inflation," and a lot less usage of the questionable economic theory of "OMG UR STOOPID, LERN 2 MACROECON PLS LOL."

Numbers speak for themselves, since 2005 their stuff has gone up about 50%, their sales how ever have only increased about 25%. If they want to eat out their customer base, thats cool, i am a big fan of "I told you so".

Also this numbers are deceiving, its actually much more than 50% since now most fantasy boxes come in 10s and that was not always the case before.

I just found a box of Fire Warriors, with a price tag of $27. If I recall correctly, I bought them when the FIRST Codex came out in 2001, but because it doesn't even matter, I'll assume it was when the Tau Empire Codex came out, over 5 years ago. Amazon's price on Fire Warriors is stupid, but other online stores have them for $34. That's a 25% increase in 5 years, again, roughly in line with the rate of inflation. And I'm pretty sure I purchased them more than 5 years ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Numbers speak for themselves, since 2005 their stuff has gone up about 50%

The numbers might speak for themselves if there were any numbers presented, but all I see is a statement that doesn't coincide with my memory, nor with my cursory shelf-based research on the subject.

Edit: Upon further googling, it appears that Cadian Shock troops can be had for LESS than I paid two years ago.

Edit: Found a Tau Devilfish on my shelf, still sealed. Price tag is $32. Price on Amazon is $28. I got it, again, 5 years go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would also like to point out that the cost of ammunition (as in for real firearms) has gone up by something like 100% over the last 10 years. There was a brief period in 2008 when you simply couldn't get certain calibers.

Is GW somehow involved with that, as well?

Phryxis wrote:I just found a box of Fire Warriors, with a price tag of $27. If I recall correctly, I bought them when the FIRST Codex came out in 2001, but because it doesn't even matter, I'll assume it was when the Tau Empire Codex came out, over 5 years ago. Amazon's price on Fire Warriors is stupid, but other online stores have them for $34. That's a 25% increase in 5 years, again, roughly in line with the rate of inflation. And I'm pretty sure I purchased them more than 5 years ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Numbers speak for themselves, since 2005 their stuff has gone up about 50%

The numbers might speak for themselves if there were any numbers presented, but all I see is a statement that doesn't coincide with my memory, nor with my cursory shelf-based research on the subject.

Edit: Upon further googling, it appears that Cadian Shock troops can be had for LESS than I paid two years ago.

Edit: Found a Tau Devilfish on my shelf, still sealed. Price tag is $32. Price on Amazon is $28. I got it, again, 5 years go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would also like to point out that the cost of ammunition (as in for real firearms) has gone up by something like 100% over the last 10 years. There was a brief period in 2008 when you simply couldn't get certain calibers.

Is GW somehow involved with that, as well?

Comparing former retail prices to a deal that you can currently find is far from useful as a metric for debate.

Amazon is a horrible place to use as price comparison because the prices can be so random sometimes.

General Hobbs wrote:

and bring the prices of their models to a realistic level.

While character models are more expensive, for the most part GW's prices are inline with the rest of the hobby community and modelling community. Look at PP's prices or reapers.

Really? Jokerao Weaponsmith - $13
Comparable Reaper model? $5 or less

That's just one example. I don't think you will find a single GW model that is anywhere CLOSE to Reaper's pricing.

Reaper is also a smaller company, with many, many more models, both which SHOULD make them the more expensive of the two. Yet they seem to be doing just fine, coming out with new stuff every month. How do you explain that? (Didn't mention PP since I'm not familiar with their pricing at all)

People are getting too centered on the actual price increases themselves and not the OVERALL price of this damned hobby. There are people in other threads running these costs, and they're quite high, increasing every year at a rate higher than your "inflation" justification.

We're going to see $80 land raiders quite soon at this rate. $80 for a little plastic tank. $80 for something that has as much plastic in it as any toy at Toys-R-Us that sells for $15. Terminators and stuff like that are even worse. So what if in the game they're better than marines? You're going to pay WHAT for 5 little pieces of plastic?

People stuck on the whole "inflation" argument need to collectively remove their heads and understand where these prices have gotten to, and more importantly, where they are going. This is very quickly going to be a hobby that is WELL outside of the reach of GWs coveted "teenage boy with pocket money" audience, and even beyond the means of the dedicated veterans. Every year more and more people will decide to hang it up on the basis of cost, and every year you will have less people to sell your "inflation" argument to at your local GW shop - if there's even going to be one in a few more years, at this rate.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
The Southern hemisphere embargo is my biggest concern though.

Can US stores still ship south of the border? I can really recommend www.thewarstore.com

General Hobbs wrote:

and bring the prices of their models to a realistic level.

While character models are more expensive, for the most part GW's prices are inline with the rest of the hobby community and modelling community. Look at PP's prices or reapers.

Other companies have high prices because they have taken a page from GW. They know they can get away with it to a certain extent.

Back when Reaper first appeared on the scene, their prices were the same as just aboue every other miniature company. Roughly $1 - $1.5 for a single infantry sized model. Reaper sculpts were quite good in comparison to others at that period of time in the early-mid nineties. Same with Ral Partha who were still around during that period. GW models at that time were still excessively expensive (the same single model wizard cost roughly $8-$10) and companies like Reaper were the natural choice for people who wanted to pay a reasonable amount of money for miniatures without throwing money at GW reinforcing their overinflated sense of worth.

GW are not keeping up with the industry. GW are the reason why the industry is priced the way it is today.

Thrax wrote:People are getting too centered on the actual price increases themselves and not the OVERALL price of this damned hobby. There are people in other threads running these costs, and they're quite high, increasing every year at a rate higher than your "inflation" justification.

We're going to see $80 land raiders quite soon at this rate. $80 for a little plastic tank. $80 for something that has as much plastic in it as any toy at Toys-R-Us that sells for $15. Terminators and stuff like that are even worse. So what if in the game they're better than marines? You're going to pay WHAT for 5 little pieces of plastic?

People stuck on the whole "inflation" argument need to collectively remove their heads and understand where these prices have gotten to, and more importantly, where they are going. This is very quickly going to be a hobby that is WELL outside of the reach of GWs coveted "teenage boy with pocket money" audience, and even beyond the means of the dedicated veterans. Every year more and more people will decide to hang it up on the basis of cost, and every year you will have less people to sell your "inflation" argument to at your local GW shop - if there's even going to be one in a few more years, at this rate.

I completely agree. I have been in and out of the 40K hobby since 3rd edition. I remember when I got back into it just over a year ago and even then I was questioning the cost of things. But, I got back into it and then GW raised their prices. I swore that I wouldn't pay those prices and so I started ordering everything from Neal at the Warstore. The discount offset the price rise for me. Now GW have raised their prices again (and now I find out this is an "anual price rise") and so I've stopped completely. I can play 40K with what I have. I really, really wanted to start a Dark Eldar army, but not with these prices.

I think a lot of people are feeling the same way. What really irks me though are the same types of people who pop up every price rise and say "it's just an extra three or four dollars. If you can't afford that then you shouldn't be in this hobby." I don't think they've got the long-term memory to remember that we've all heard that line for the last two or three price rises. It's not "just three or four dollars" anymore. Over the last few hikes it's more like a ten dollars in many places, and it doesn't seem to be ending any time soon. So, yes, the days of $80 Land Raiders aren't far off in my opinion. Voting with your wallet is all that matters to companies. Many others have made the same choice. I just wish people would stop trying to justify all the crap GW has pulled in the last week.

Reaper also doesn't have a game system and stores to support. Reaper just makes generic stuff for the most part (well now they do. Not counting failed games of the past)

Theduke07 wrote:Reaper also doesn't have a game system and stores to support. Reaper just makes generic stuff for the most part (well now they do. Not counting failed games of the past)

Is that meant to be a defense of why GW have such high prices?

Because if so, their retail outlets can burn for all I care. I prefer to game in places where I can bring whatever I want that I bought at that establishment instead of ignorant pontification about nothing else beyond GW existing on this planet.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
The Southern hemisphere embargo is my biggest concern though.

Can US stores still ship south of the border? I can really recommend www.thewarstore.com

I can't recommend The Warstore, simply because shipping from them would be quite a hefty bit.

They even recommend that if you want to place an overseas order, you have it mailed to a friend/trusted confidant in the States and have them mail it on.

I have compiled a list of the suggested retail prices as they appeared in the 2002 gws catalog (if you want a price for a specific model pm me). Since 2002 some models have gone up by more than 50% (but this is over a period of 9 years!). It's the lower value models that seem to have gone up the most (percentage wise). Overall the rise in those 9 years is 40ish%.

The 2010 catalog features 600+ pages while the 2002 catalog only had about 160 pages. There are tons of models available these days compared to 2002.

The Price bands for the 2002 catalog were as follows. Please note that a lot of models have changed since 2002 (improved with more options). I have selected models for each price range that are either exactly the same or are similar (old battle force vs new battle force). If the sets are different the exact composition is in the notes below. The "now" prices are the prices that are valid NOW, not the prices that are valid as of May 28th.

A: 3 GBP
B: 4 GBP (Space marine apothecary (metal))=> now 7.20 GBP
C: 4 GBP (Codex Blood angels 24 pages) => now 17.50 GBP (now 96 pages)
D: 5 GBP (Chaos space marine bike) => now 7.20 GBP
E: 6 GBP (Commissar Yarrick (metal)) => now 10.25 GBP
F: 8 GBP (Codex Space marines 48 pages, Codex Imperial guard 48 pages) => now 18.00 GBP (now 104 pages)
G: 8 GBP (Abaddon the despoiler (metal)) => now 12.30 GBP
H: 10 GBP (Space marine attack bike, Imperial guard sentinel) => now 15.50 GBP
I: 12 GBP (Space marine assault squad) => now 18.50 GBP
J: 15 GBP (Space marine tactical squad) => now 23.00 GBP
K: 18 GBP (Space marine devastator squad, Imperial guard Chimera) => now 20.50 GBP
L: 20 GBP (Space marine dreadnought) => now 27.70 GBP
L: 20 GBP (Imperial guard Hellhound tank) => now 30.75 GBP
M: 25 GBP (Space marine Furioso dreadnought) => now 27.70 GBP (4)
M: 25 GBP (Leman Russ Demolisher) => now 30.75 GBP
N: 30 GBP (Space marine land raider) => now 38.50 GBP
O: 35 GBP (Space marine land raider crusader) => now 38.50 GBP
P: 40 GBP
Q: 50 GBP (Space marine battle force (1)) => now 51.25 GBP (2)
Q: 50 GBP (Imperial guard battle force (5) ) => now 56.50 GBP (6)
R: 75 GBP (Space marine mega force (3) ) => now ? GBP

Notes:
(1) Old Space marine battle force: 10 space marines, 5 terminators, 1 landspeeder, 3 space marine bikes, gothic ruins frame
(2) New Space marine battle force includes: 15 tactical space marines, Rhino, 5 Space marine scouts, 5 Assault marines
(3) Space marine mega force: 10 space marines, 5 assault marines, 5 terminators, 1 dreadnought, 1 land raider, 1 gothic ruins frame
(4) Price for new recently released Blood angels Furioso Dreadnought
(5) Old Imperial guard Catachan battle force includes 20 catachan jungle fighters, 2 sentinels, 1 Leman Russ Battle tank, tree frames
(6) Current Imperial guard Catachan battle force includes 1 Catachan command squad, 20 Catachan jungle fighters, 3 Catachan heavy weapon teams, 1 sentinel

Rather than guessing inflation as many people citing it are, look it up.

US inflation:
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/currentinflation.asp

UK's is similar.

Not even close to 5% anywhere.

BuFFo wrote:Is that English?

Unfortunately.

BuFFo wrote:The flurry of poop GW has dropped on all our chests lately...

That gave me a horrible image >.<

Despite my previous post, I am very much inclined to agree with you. *sigh*

Again, you're hopelessly focused on the incremental. How much are you willing to pay for this stuff before you decide it's a smarter option to put your finances elseware? $50 a unit? $80 a unit? $150 a unit? $200? Are you really willing to continue to pay more and more and more for your little plastic toy soldiers?

Gain some perspective man, realize how much this is bankrupting people and then consider that the exact increments of the price hikes aren't what matters - it's that the prices are already so damn high there's no room for further hikes.

FURTHERMORE: GW is losing it's ability to hold onto the few "teenage boys with pocket money" that they gain through high pressure intro game sales. Why would you spend $800 on your models, paints, glue, etc when you can spend $60 for the next best selling video game of all time and be able to play it with complete and total instant gratification from the moment you pop it into your xbox? That's who they're trying to capture here, and they're not going to win them over by hiking the costs to astronomical levels. It's not going to work. This is an unsustainable business model for GW and sooner or later the bottom is going to drop out as the prices reach critical mass and the exodus ensues.