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nectarprime wrote:

Matrim wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

8) Plastic glue will not work on these and GW super glue is notoriously bad on resin.

It's not plastic. It's resin.

And if you're sensible you wont use GW brand glue anyway.

res·in (rzn)
n.
1. Any of numerous clear to translucent yellow or brown, solid or semisolid, viscous substances of plant origin, such as copal, rosin, and amber, used principally in lacquers, varnishes, inks, adhesives, synthetic plastics, and pharmaceuticals.
2. Any of numerous physically similar polymerized synthetics or chemically modified natural resins including thermoplastic materials such as polyvinyl, polystyrene, and polyethylene and thermosetting materials such as polyesters, epoxies, and silicones that are used with fillers, stabilizers, pigments, and other components to form plastics.

Resin is plastic. Plastic is not necessarily resin.

cool story. a bit nit-picky though, wouldn't you say?

Matrim wrote:

nectarprime wrote:

Matrim wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

8) Plastic glue will not work on these and GW super glue is notoriously bad on resin.

It's not plastic. It's resin.

And if you're sensible you wont use GW brand glue anyway.

res·in (rzn)
n.
1. Any of numerous clear to translucent yellow or brown, solid or semisolid, viscous substances of plant origin, such as copal, rosin, and amber, used principally in lacquers, varnishes, inks, adhesives, synthetic plastics, and pharmaceuticals.
2. Any of numerous physically similar polymerized synthetics or chemically modified natural resins including thermoplastic materials such as polyvinyl, polystyrene, and polyethylene and thermosetting materials such as polyesters, epoxies, and silicones that are used with fillers, stabilizers, pigments, and other components to form plastics.

Resin is plastic. Plastic is not necessarily resin.

cool story.

...bro? Just trying to show you that resin is plastic. No need to be a jerk just because you were incorrect in your assumption.

nectarprime wrote:

...bro? Just trying to show you that resin is plastic. No need to be a jerk just because you were incorrect in your assumption.

I'm not being the jerk, 'bro'.

lets stay on topic.

~UnDeAd~ wrote:

mazik765 wrote:I'm very excited. I think they look great and even though I'm relatively new to the hobby I am already sick of having to pin my heavier metal models (I'm talking to you, Ghazghkull -.-)

Totally agree , i hated that model , could never really get the arms to stay on without pinning

Mine have hung on after years and a few drops. And thats without pinning

Mastiff wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:Ok here's time for some simple truths (in my opinion)

2) we have been told the material is safe, the staff at my local GW are already telling people not to sand or file it therefore I believe IT IS NOT A 100% SAFE MATERIAL AS ADEVERTISED.

6) these models will take longer to clean up than existing metal miniatures, take a look at the spurs they come on.

Just a quick rebuttal: NO material is 100% safe when being sanded or filed. Whether or not the resin has any carcinogenic properties compared to metals or plastics is a bit irrelevant.. Any particles that small can be harmful when inhaled, so always wear a mask.

Longer to clean up than metals? Unlikely. Metal requires more force to remove extra material.

The bending may be a problem, I'm genuinely curious about finding out more.

GWs official statement is that this material is 100% safe, so you have not rebutted my point simply GWs, also take a look at the new drago sprue its absolutely dripping with flash ( more so than any metal model i've ever seen) and lots of random extra "points" for want of a better word on top of details. This will result in lots of extra clean up time. Especially as GW recommend not using files or sanding on the new material.

This was never about giving a better product to the consumer, simply cutting overheads.

The point I made about the glue is that GW does not sell a suitable glue for this material, most hobbyists do not use GW glue, however this has a bearing on new hobbyists and inexperienced modellers.

Apparently this material is very easy to damage as in one review I read they managed to chip off the point of dragos shield by dropping it, not an issue I've ever had with metal or plastic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That drago miniature review I mentioned

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/05/citadel-finecast.html

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: GWs official statement is that this material is 100% safe, so you have not rebutted my point simply GWs, also take a look at the new drago sprue its absolutely dripping with flash ( more so than any metal model i've ever seen) and lots of random extra "points" for want of a better word on top of details. This will result in lots of extra clean up time. Especially as GW recommend not using files or sanding on the new material.

Where did you find "GWs official statement is that this material is 100% safe"? I read their press release: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16700019a and it doesn't say a thing about safety. Nothing, nada, zilch. Their packaging only speaks about not giving to younger children, and being careful with a knife. They should warn people about the dangers of sanding without proper ventilation, but that goes for metal and plastic minis as well.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
That drago miniature review I mentioned

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/05/citadel-finecast.html

Thank you for the informative link.

@mastiff the post regarding safety is on there facebook page I'll see if I can find the link

Ok heres an example of one of the many times they have stated about safety


Games Workshop Just one quick answer for those of you who have asked about safety of the resin - it is indeed safe. While we'll get this answered again in the FAQ from the Studio when we post it, we did give this response yesterday. "There are currently many formulations of resin used across the world. The resin material we are using for Citadel Finecast models has undergone testing by a leading international toy safety testing agency. They identified no risks to health and recommend no special precautions." Hope that's a help.
Tuesday at 5:07pm · 9 people

I'll get the link to the thread in just a sec

There ya go

http://www.facebook.com/gamesworkshopofficial/posts/228826743798830

You will have to work your way through the comments to find it

Right.... After looking throught my recently delivered WD.

From my perspective the material they are using is a different form of resin OR a more common plastic & resin hybrid.

As many people are going to lay hate on resin due to their experience with FW resin. I shall explain.

FW resin (i will not go into exact resin types) combined with the level of detail that FW try to acheive, require 2 part silicone moulds. This is NOT what the new GW finecast range is made of.

The finecast article in my WD clearly shows how the casts GW are using for the range are using a sprue system, which suggests an injection type mould.

This means the properties of this material are going to be different. By the look of it its quite fragile which is a pain, but at the same time, its much easier to repair a light peice of resin thats broken off than a bent bit of metal (such as a sword or claw).

In terms of paint chipping, isnt that what purity seal/sealers and varnishes are for? My metal figures chipped like hell if you didnt varnish them, but were fine once varnished.

After my ramble on i think my point is that this is just a 'change'. Some aspects of the new resin are going to be better than working with metal, and some worse. People are making it out as if the finecast range is the doom of the ex-metal figures. We adapt, and build, paint and game. Laying hate on the switch is not going to change it.

Dan

(ps i in no way am defending GW, more trying to smooth some of the resin hate thats not articulated properly)

Doomthumbs wrote:Plastic Hive Tyrant?!

I think I just found religion.

I totally agree with you. This might just prompt me to start a nid army. But $85 aus for a Tyrant is just too much...

Can anyone point me towards the US dollars prices? $85 is a lot for a hive tyrant, and I wonder if the recent price hike was a bigger one than normal.


Oh, on the resin- last year at Gencon a lot of people told me about recent improvements in resin casting. A lot of older companies were showcasing their first miniatures in the new resin (Privateer Press and Dark Age included).

I'm guessing that those improvements have a lot to do with this decision, and I imagine that they found a way to do the switch over fairly cheaply (probably using the same molds).

I do wonder if this is going to affect the quality of future miniatures. It is a bit of a shame that the first review we've had for the stuff says "Stern looks the same as he always has, but now he's easier to break."


So I think the only thing about this announcement that bothers me was the hyperbole. And it isn't just that they're excited about their product- you expect that from everyone. It is really just one symptom in the way that Games Workshop tries hard not to even acknowledge the existence of the hobby outside of their own line.

Their frequent use of phrases like "the Games Workshop hobby" or their lack of official presence at Gencon, Adepticon, Salute and other major cons are other symptoms. But that's off topic.

$85 AUD is, at the moment according XE money converter,

90.66 USD
63.82 EUR
55.22 GBP

We get ripped off haaaaard. Why is beyond me.

@troll hammer don't worry GW will decide that in order to give AUS, NZ & CAN less things to complain about and therefore improve there hobby they will soon stop GW products being available to those countries.

Hang on are you being serious? Because i will make an angry faic and then rage quit.

I was excited when I heard they are bringing back Yarrick and, in point of fact, my FLGS has 3 on the way. My current Yarrick is one I cobbled together from Gaunt, some Ork Bigmeks, and a lot of glue.

Then I saw the picture of it, same old yarrick, and was disappointed. They had him off the list of buyable models for a while now and didn't do anything to his pose. I'm waiting for more IG to come out, specifically designed for FineCast

-cgmckenzie

D.Smith wrote:Right.... After looking throught my recently delivered WD.

From my perspective the material they are using is a different form of resin OR a more common plastic & resin hybrid.

As many people are going to lay hate on resin due to their experience with FW resin. I shall explain.

FW resin (i will not go into exact resin types) combined with the level of detail that FW try to acheive, require 2 part silicone moulds. This is NOT what the new GW finecast range is made of.

The finecast article in my WD clearly shows how the casts GW are using for the range are using a sprue system, which suggests an injection type mould.

This means the properties of this material are going to be different. By the look of it its quite fragile which is a pain, but at the same time, its much easier to repair a light peice of resin thats broken off than a bent bit of metal (such as a sword or claw).

In terms of paint chipping, isnt that what purity seal/sealers and varnishes are for? My metal figures chipped like hell if you didnt varnish them, but were fine once varnished.

After my ramble on i think my point is that this is just a 'change'. Some aspects of the new resin are going to be better than working with metal, and some worse. People are making it out as if the finecast range is the doom of the ex-metal figures. We adapt, and build, paint and game. Laying hate on the switch is not going to change it.

Dan

(ps i in no way am defending GW, more trying to smooth some of the resin hate thats not articulated properly)

Well said, Mr. Smith.

This new material is above all different to standard resin, plastic and metal.

It will have advantages and disadvantages. It will invalidate some working methods and facilitate different ones.

It isn't the solution to all our hobby problems.

Finally, the great majority of wargame companies are continuing to produce in metal.

Trollhammaren wrote:$85 AUD is, at the moment according XE money converter,

90.66 USD
63.82 EUR
55.22 GBP

We get ripped off haaaaard. Why is beyond me.

Ok, that looks like a 50% increase over the USD- (hive tyrant is currently 59.50). And Google tells me that an Australian Dollar is worth about seven cents more than a US dollar. Do they have no production in Australia?


One other note- does anyone know what this will mean for the Specialist Games ranges? I really appreciate that the Blood Bowl, Necromunda etc. miniatures have been available- even if they aren't actually supported. Will they be switching those lines over, or just ending them?

Oh, no one has posted today? I was hoping someone would come on and give us a review (since we'll be able to see the minis for ourselves today).

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
GWs official statement is that this material is 100% safe, so you have not rebutted my point simply GWs, also take a look at the new drago sprue its absolutely dripping with flash ( more so than any metal model i've ever seen) and lots of random extra "points" for want of a better word on top of details. This will result in lots of extra clean up time. Especially as GW recommend not using files or sanding on the new material.

I havent' been able to get any Finecast models yet, nor do I feel that I have seen a representative sample of them on the internet, but I'd like to point out an assumption that you're presenting.

More flash than a metal model does not automatically equal lots of extra clean up time, even if you cannot use files or sanding.

I have purchased resin models from other companies which come with a metric crap-ton of very thin resin flash. This flash is so thin as to be translucent and is more easily torn than tissue paper. It could literally be brushed off the model in most cases, and scraped off with a fingernail (or even just a finger). In most cases, it was removed without any affect on the remaining surface. I'm not making the claim that this will be the case with GW Finecast models, but it is simply not the case that more flash=more time. Easily removed flash takes less time, effort, and attention, to remove than more difficult to remove flash.

I picked up the Black Orc Bigboss and Castellan Crowe today. The Orc's right shoulder pad has a little bubble, but I can deal with it. But he had alot of flash, I still have some trimming to do. I haven't opened Castellan yet, but his detail looks great, not alot of flash and no visible defects.

odinsgrandson wrote:

Trollhammaren wrote:$85 AUD is, at the moment according XE money converter,

90.66 USD
63.82 EUR
55.22 GBP

We get ripped off haaaaard. Why is beyond me.

Ok, that looks like a 50% increase over the USD- (hive tyrant is currently 59.50). And Google tells me that an Australian Dollar is worth about seven cents more than a US dollar. Do they have no production in Australia?


One other note- does anyone know what this will mean for the Specialist Games ranges? I really appreciate that the Blood Bowl, Necromunda etc. miniatures have been available- even if they aren't actually supported. Will they be switching those lines over, or just ending them?

No, we do not have production here in Australia, which is a shame, means we gotta ship it from either the US or the UK. Also, in general for Australian retail our mark up is 100% more than the US markups and 30% more than the UK markups.... makes me wonder what makes Australia such a good country to live in these days...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369106.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/371719.page

Sorry, odin, going to lock this as a duplicate thread for now!