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Games Workshop has recently started ending their line of metal miniatures forever- and they'll be replacing it with a line of resin miniatures using the same molds.

They're calling it Citadel Finecast. And at least some of the claims they're making about the miniatures is correct- resin does allow you greater detail, and a closer approximation to the original work in green.

I do, however, get really annoyed at their own statements on the matter. For example, Andy Hall wrote that they are "the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen." Honestly, as if no one has ever cast a mini in resin before.

*(For those of you unfamiliar with some of the fine resin miniatures out there, Studio McVey, Smartmax, Raging Heroes, Kingdom Death, even Scibor Miniatures and of course Forge World all have impressive lines completely cast in resin- largely due to strong sculpting work. My personal favorite is the Studio Mcvey limited edition line- the sculpts are absolutely amazing).

Hyperbole aside, this isn't bad news. Resin is a more detailed medium for miniatures, so it is likely we'll be getting more detailed casts at least. On the other hand, they are all of the same old miniatures we've seen them do in metal for years, so I'm having a little trouble thinking that this is such amazing news.

The first two posts had no mention whatsoever of pricing, but the third one makes it sound as if the recent price hike will simply carry over into the resin line.

So what does everyone think of that?

Resin is easier to work with than metal.

I'm not too bothered about the price hike - GW are always upping prices, and everyone still buys there products.

I for one don't play, only paint for fun/when i have time, so the huge costs don't really affect me.

I don't mind the transition to much, as there's a fair number of metal models I want for conversions but don't enjoy working with the metal to much. Also being a bit of a consumer whore I will easily keep buying GW products...just not strictly from GW direct. Also with the price raise I think if were lucky enough, good enough and dont upset Gw when it comes home drunk in the early morning that the price hike might just be to cover the initial cost of switching over and getting all the equipment. So hopefully it might go back down(doubtful but you never know). Just my thoughts on the subject.

I personally cannot wait until I can chop them to bits and mash them back together.

I found the hyperbole rather nauseating. GW has some talented sculptors, but in all the years they've been around there's only a handful that I would buy purely as a collector/painter. On the other hand, there are entire lines of minis deserving the "the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen", most of which you've already mentioned. Even Ben Nelson and Jes Goodwin are limited to a few figures each that really stand out as "dynamic, unique must-have sculptures", rather than "cool gaming piece, bro". Beyond Confrontation, SmartMax best reaches that level on a consistent basis.

Beyond that, I really just want to see the list of minis that will get the resin treatment. I don't mind the loss of metal at all, but I'd like to know what the end results will be. Will they be listed on the site along with the rest of their respective armies, or under their own heading? What will be the price difference? Will thin parts like spears have the same durability as metal?

Full list so far :
41-60 COMMANDER DANTE £10.50
53-60 LOGAN GRIMNAR £14.50
55-61 THE EMPERORS CHAMPION £9.50
48-63 SPACE MARINE CHAPLAIN WITH JUMP PACK £10.50
44-60 DARK ANGELS COMPANY MASTER £10.50
48-61 SM LIBRARIAN IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR £14.50
53-61 NJAL STORMCALLER £14.50
41-61 ASTORATH THE GRIM £12.50
43-60 ABADDON THE DESPOILER £14.50
43-61 HURON BLACKHEART £10.50
50-61 ORK WARBOSS WITH ATTACK SQUIG £14.50
50-63 ORK BIG MEK £14.50
50-65 ORK PAINBOY WITH GROT ORDERLY £10.50
46-61 ELDAR AUTARCH WITH POWER WEAPON £10.50
46-62 THE AVATAR OF KHAINE £22.50
46-63 HARLEQUIN DEATH JESTER £10.50
46-64 HARLEQUIN SHADOWSEER £10.50
47-61 COMMISSAR YARRICK £10.50
47-63 IMPERIAL GUARD LORD COMMISSAR £9.50
51-61 TYRANID ZOANTHROPE £15.50
51-63 TYRANID TYRANT GUARD £15.50
51-64 TYRANID HIVE GUARD £15.50
51-65 TYRANID BROODLORD £15.50
57-61 BROTHER CAPTAIN STERN £14.50
57-60 LORD KALDOR DRAIGO £14.50
57-62 CASTELLAN CROWE £10.50
57-63 INQUISITOR COTEAZ £10.50
45-60 DARK ELDAR ARCHON £9.50
45-64 LELITH HESPERAX £10.50
45-63 URIEN RAKARTH £10.50
45-61 DARK ELDAR SUCCUBUS £9.50
56-60 TAU ETHEREAL WITH HONOUR BLADE £9.50
83-62 CHAOS EXALTED HERO £9.50
83-63 CHAOS KHORNE EXALTED HERO £10.50
86-60 EMPIRE CAPTAIN WITH HAMMER & PISTOL £9.50
92-60 WOOD ELF HIGHBORN WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
84-60 DWARF LORD WITH HAMMER & SHIELD £9.50
84-61 DWARF RUNELORD WITH GREAT WEAPON £9.50
90-60 SKAVEN WARLORD £9.50
90-61 QUEEK HEADTAKER £10.50
90-62 DEATHMASTER SNIKCH £10.50
91-61 VAMPIRE LORD £9.50
89-60 GRIMGOR IRONHIDE £10.50
89-62 BLACK ORC BIG BOSS £10.50
87-60 CARADRYAN £10.50
85-61 DARK ELF ASSASSIN WITH TWO HAND WEAPONS £9.50
81-60 MALAGOR THE DARK OMEN £12.50
10-61 URUK-HAI WITH CROSSBOWS £14.00
10-62 URUK-HAI BERSERKERS £14.00
08-61 GOTHMOG (PELENNOR) £20.50
05-60 ELROND AND GIL-GALAD £15.00
10-60 SARUMAN AND GRIMA £15.00
02-60 GANDALF THE WHITE £20.50
04-60 ARAGORN (THE BLACK GATE) £20.50
04-62 THEODEN (HELM’S DEEP) £20.50
04-61 BOROMIR (ITHILIEN) £20.50
09-60 SULADAN THE SERPENT LORD £20.50
08-62 THE DARK MARSHAL (RINGWRAITH) £20.50
05-61 DAIN AND BALIN £15.00
97-60 SKULLTAKER £14.50
48-40 MARNEUS CALGAR AND HONOUR GUARD £36.00
48-41 SPACE MARINE TECHMARINE WITH SERVITORS £25.50
55-40 BLACK TEMPLARS SWORD BRETHREN SQUAD £25.50
48-42 SPACE MARINE STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50
48-43 SPACE MARINE VANGUARD VETERAN SQUAD £25.50
53-40 CANIS WOLFBORN £30.00
43-40 NURGLE DAEMON PRINCE £21.50
43-41 CHAOS SPACE MARINE RAPTORS £25.50
43-42 DEATH GUARD PLAGUE MARINES £25.50
50-43 BOSS ZAGSTRUK £14.50
50-40 GHAZGHKULL THRAKA £22.50
50-41 ORK TANKBUSTAS £25.50
50-42 ORK BIG MEK WITH SHOKK ATTACK GUN £23.00
46-41 ELDAR RANGERS £20.50
46-42 ELDAR DARK REAPERS £23.00
46-44 ELDAR STRIKING SCORPIONS £23.00
46-40 ELDAR FARSEER AND WARLOCKS £20.50
51-42 TYRANID LICTOR £15.50
51-40 TYRANID HIVE TYRANT £36.00
51-41 TYRANID PYROVORE £21.50
45-40 DARK ELDAR INCUBI £23.00
45-41 DARK ELDAR MANDRAKES £20.50
56-40 TAU SNIPER DRONE TEAM £23.00
83-42 ARCHAON THE EVERCHOSEN £30.00
83-43 CHAOS LORD ON DAEMONIC MOUNT £22.50
83-41 CHAOS DRAGON OGRE SHAGGOTH £36.00
86-41 LUDWIG SCHWARZHELM £22.50
86-40 KURT HELBORG £22.50
82-41 THE GREEN KNIGHT £22.50
82-40 KING LOUEN LEONCOEUR £30.00
92-42 WOOD ELVES TREE KIN £30.00
92-40 ORION KING IN THE WOODS £22.50
92-41 WOOD ELVES TREEMAN £36.00
84-40 THOREK IRONBROW £36.00
84-41 DWARF GYROCOPTER £23.00
84-42 DWARF BOLT THROWER £23.00
90-40 SKAVEN WARPLOCK JEZZAILS £30.00
91-40 VAMPIRE COUNTS VARGHULF £21.50
91-42 COUNT MANNFRED £22.50
91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50
88-41 KROQ GAR £40.00
89-44 GOBLIN SPEAR CHUKKA £18.50
89-43 SAVAGE ORC GREAT SHAMAN ON WAR BOAR £15.50
89-41 ORC WARBOSS ON WYVERN £40.00
89-42 GOBLIN ROCK LOBBER £23.00
89-45 GORBAD IRONCLAW £30.00
89-40 AZHAG THE SLAUGHTERER £55.00
85-41 DARK ELVES REAPER BOLT THROWER £18.50
08-40 THE DARK LORD SAURON £25.50
08-42 GULAHVAR THE TERROR OF ARNOR £30.00
08-43 MORDOR TROLL CHIEFTAIN £25.50
02-40 THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING £37.00
97-42 FLAMERS OF TZEENTCH £15.50

And I will be buying most of the orks and orcs on that list

Especially Ghazskull and the Big mek with shokk attack gun , they were so horrible to make for me , resin should make them so much eaiser

If anything this should mean forgeworld prices should drop since their resin is even cheaper then this crap, besides that there shouldnt be a reason for forgeworld to be closed completely as it is essentially right now a complete rip off.

I was juuuuust about to buy a box of Flamers of Tzeench. I'll be waiting for the Finecast models, tyvm.

My main concern is the quality and durability of the material. I have worked with large resin models (Epicast, Armorcast) that were rock-solid but stunk like chemical death for years after I bought them, and I have worked with over-the-counter recast resin that is softer than plastic when it comes to sawing / cutting / sanding. I'm not a fan of it in my experiences so far.

I have a feeling my trips to eBay will becomes more frequent as my armies slowly become 100% OOP models, but in all fairness I need to wait and see how this turns out (meaning pick up a few models and try it for myself) before (re)joining the GW flamefest.

Plastic Hive Tyrant?!

I think I just found religion.

odinsgrandson wrote:I do, however, get really annoyed at their own statements on the matter. For example, Andy Hall wrote that they are "the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen." Honestly, as if no one has ever cast a mini in resin before.

*(For those of you unfamiliar with some of the fine resin miniatures out there, Studio McVey, Smartmax, Raging Heroes, Kingdom Death, even Scibor Miniatures and of course Forge World all have impressive lines completely cast in resin- largely due to strong sculpting work. My personal favorite is the Studio Mcvey limited edition line- the sculpts are absolutely amazing).

Yes they are making a huge claim with that "best in the world" thing. There are companies like Andrea or Verlinden that are vastly superior in quality with fine detail and the like than GW. They might do 1/35th or 54mm, but GW did that too with their Inquisitor range and the detail and fit of the models had nothing on other manufacturers.

Also, you may notice that metal kits that are going to be replaced by finecast are mysteriously missing from the website...

I.E. it's impossible to buy Flamers of Tzeench right now.

I'm very excited. I think they look great and even though I'm relatively new to the hobby I am already sick of having to pin my heavier metal models (I'm talking to you, Ghazghkull -.-)

As for the hyperbole, it is to be expected that a company wants to advertise the idea that it's products are the best in the world (even though that may not be the case). They could have been a little more subtle about it, for sure, but they are some fine looking products and if they want to advertise it via hyperbole, more power to them. Doesn't detract from my experience any.

mazik765 wrote:I'm very excited. I think they look great and even though I'm relatively new to the hobby I am already sick of having to pin my heavier metal models (I'm talking to you, Ghazghkull -.-)

Totally agree , i hated that model , could never really get the arms to stay on without pinning

As I'm waiting for my Finecast of the Librarian w/ Terminator Armor xD I'll see how my Librarian looks before judging these

I wrote the newsletter back and started talking with Dan@GW I'll repost it here as it answers a few questions.


http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/hiweh/email_from_dan_gw_concerning_finecast/

Hey there,
They are exactly the same, the painted model is a resin one. In fact, it’s actually the same miniature before and after painting. A lot of the ‘Eavy Metal painted models are actually resin miniatures already so it’s not a surprise that they look the same. I do agree that you should wait until you see them in person before you choose to buy any. The pictures are good, but they really don’t do the miniatures justice. When you get the chance, check them out and see what you think. Even if you just get one to try out. As for being brittle, the resin is very flexible, not like Forge World resin which can snap easily. As I said, take a look at them first and see what you think.
Dan

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/hjr3e/another_email_fron_dan_gw/

"The models are on sprues yes, and surprisingly durable. So far I have dropped the one I’m doing for the blog twice. Once on my laminate floor at home and once when it was undercoated (it was blown off the table outside by the strong winds we’re having here in the UK – I should have known better than to try and spray in high wind…) The model itself in still fine. No damage, no marks, nothing. The really weird thing is the sprue they’re on. I cut it at the top (it’s square) and I can bend it fully round 180 degrees without it snapping. It’s very flexible stuff this new resin. I think the important thing to consider is that we’re hobbyists too at GW and the decisions we make are to make the hobby better for us and everyone else. Like you say, it would be silly to put so much effort into them and then not make it worthwhile, and trust me, it really is worth it. The models will be shipped in clampacks, a re more durable form of blister pack, with a picture of a painted miniature on the front. They keep the models nice and safe.
Dan"

I just got the new WD and I know this is going to annoy the large amount of weird people who frequent dakka yet utterly loathe GW, but seriously, they look fething awesome.

I will be buying several on Saturday, I cant wait to get to grips with them. They look so crisp and easy to work with. I had a nightmare with some of the pewter figures, so im really happy with it.

Regards price, who cares? If your skint, only have one army. Im not skint, but ive still only got one army cos i cant be arsed painting all day! What are you going to need to buy?!

My mate plays orks, he will get maybe the BM and a warboss, I play vanilla SM I think ill try...er.. Pedro, and perhaps a new Libby, but thats it.

I think the people that flame are the tubro nerds who play cheese lists frankly. You know like

"OMG! 35 quid for a DREADKNIGHT?!!? I need to buy 7! DAMN YOU GW!!!!11

Buy a couple, enjoy painting them, and stop whinging!

Oh and while im on...

Mastiff wrote:I found the hyperbole rather nauseating. GW has some talented sculptors, but in all the years they've been around there's only a handful that I would buy purely as a collector/painter.

Seriously, GW DO make the best minis, who makes better? Reaper? Chaptershouse? Troll forged? Not to anything away from some of the fething ace work they all do, but seriously.. GW make the best minis, why do you think they get away with taking the piss with their prices?

I still havent got over how awesome the new Space Hulk termies were..

I think that they're over-reacting a bit with
'the best in the world'. It's debateable

The detail statement is also debatable.
Sure, faces have come out nicer, as has cleaner lines, but there's not a massive improvement.

However, I love the fact that they've swapped pewter for resin, as it:

- Makes them easier to build
- Easier to spray (my spray always left out the edges on metal figures, but that might just be my bad spraying)
- Don't get all horribly chipped when knocked over onece or twice

Am I the only one who think the new models look exactly the same as the old ones? However, anything that lets me convert Astorath easier is worth looking at, though I must admit it does seem like an excuse simply to raise prices. /cynicism.

Aye, personally I think the Finecast range is a great idea! Of course they will be price rises, but to be honest I tend to be the kind of person who buys GW products because; one I want said model(s) and two, I am willing to pay the asking price for said model(s).

After seeing the Tomb King Finecast preorders today, I caved in and plumbed for a Liche Priest and Tomb King. I love the expression on the Liche Priest's face.

I also plan on getting some Chaos Raptors to truescale, what with the Finecast resin-plastic (I assume) being a whole lot easier to cut and convert than bloody metal.

@ Vandil- Thanks for posting that. It answered a few of my concerns. Still going to hold out, but that seems like a genuine response (opposed to boilerplate from a corporate shill).

mattyrm wrote:

Mastiff wrote:I found the hyperbole rather nauseating. GW has some talented sculptors, but in all the years they've been around there's only a handful that I would buy purely as a collector/painter.

Seriously, GW DO make the best minis, who makes better? Reaper? Chaptershouse? Troll forged? Not to anything away from some of the fething ace work they all do, but seriously.. GW make the best minis, why do you think they get away with taking the piss with their prices?

I still havent got over how awesome the new Space Hulk termies were..

Obviously it's a matter of opinion, and mine isn't worth more than anyone else's. But seriously? The best? I actually quite like GW, but that's ridiculous. There's such a wide world out there, you really should take a look.

GW tends to play it safe, rarely going out of their comfort zone. At least they've moved away from their "more skulls/bigger hats" phase of model detail. To take a step back, I define "best" as dynamic posing, consistent proportions, creative details and sharp, clean sculpting.

Compare these models, which share common traits:



Or these Infinity figs, to see what can be done for sci-fi:




GW makes pretty good miniatures, but they tend to be a bit blocky or chunky. They make perfect gaming pieces, but I don't think they are the best by any measure.

Take a look at what else is out there:
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/

Apologies for going off-topic. Again. To compensate, I'm happy to say I think some of the Dark Eldar minis (Lilith and Rakarth) are in that top tier of sculpting, that any company would be proud to market. But they aren't indicative of the overall quality of GW, they are exceptional.

The highlander looks awesome to be sure.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought the GW ones on the right were better though, and they have made some truly epic mini's, sure some companys make great minis, but nobody is as prolific as them.

And look at the cost of that highlander! $20 for one! A GW Archon in the new resin is only 9.50.

Ok here's time for some simple truths (in my opinion)

1) there is no extra detail, these are recasts of the existing masters, the detail is more crisp due to the mechanical properties of liquid resin however they have added NO EXTRA DETAIL.

2) we have been told the material is safe, the staff at my local GW are already telling people not to sand or file it therefore I believe IT IS NOT A 100% SAFE MATERIAL AS ADEVERTISED.

3) there are no "hot reviews" ie the models have not been subjected to a left in the boot on a hot day test. These miniatures most likely sag and bend in warm temperatures, especially considering the supposed "elastic" nature of the material.

4) the elastic material means as the miniature is flexed then there is the distinct possibility that the paint will flake away.

5) GW has bought in insdustry standard equipment with no associated R & D costs using a vastly cheaper material yet are putting up prices. THIS IS FLAGRANT PROFITEERING.

6) these models will take longer to clean up than existing metal miniatures, take a look at the spurs they come on.

7) Durability is going to be an issue, if the material is as soft as reported then when one meets a sanded table or textured piece of scenery it won't just damage the paint job it will damage the miniature itself. THESE MINIATURES WILL BE NOT AS DURABLE AS METAL MINIATURES.

8) Plastic glue will not work on these and GW super glue is notoriously bad on resin.


After all this I will say yes the models will have crisper detail ( though no extra) the initial run will have a lot of miscasts, but once they get a hang of the casting process then quality should be very stable. I can see models designed for this process being a step forward in quality. However citadel miniatures will NEVER be the best on the Market.

The recasts should have seen no rise in price at all due to the savings achieved. However I do believe miniatures designed for the process (of which there currently are none) could be worth the additional outlay. Let's see if GW hasn't done itself too much damage in it's customers opinions to be able to take full advantage of this technology

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

8) Plastic glue will not work on these and GW super glue is notoriously bad on resin.

It's not plastic. It's resin.

And if you're sensible you wont use GW brand glue anyway.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:Ok here's time for some simple truths (in my opinion)

2) we have been told the material is safe, the staff at my local GW are already telling people not to sand or file it therefore I believe IT IS NOT A 100% SAFE MATERIAL AS ADEVERTISED.

6) these models will take longer to clean up than existing metal miniatures, take a look at the spurs they come on.

Just a quick rebuttal: NO material is 100% safe when being sanded or filed. Whether or not the resin has any carcinogenic properties compared to metals or plastics is a bit irrelevant.. Any particles that small can be harmful when inhaled, so always wear a mask.

Longer to clean up than metals? Unlikely. Metal requires more force to remove extra material.

The bending may be a problem, I'm genuinely curious about finding out more.

Matrim wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

8) Plastic glue will not work on these and GW super glue is notoriously bad on resin.

It's not plastic. It's resin.

And if you're sensible you wont use GW brand glue anyway.

res·in (rzn)
n.
1. Any of numerous clear to translucent yellow or brown, solid or semisolid, viscous substances of plant origin, such as copal, rosin, and amber, used principally in lacquers, varnishes, inks, adhesives, synthetic plastics, and pharmaceuticals.
2. Any of numerous physically similar polymerized synthetics or chemically modified natural resins including thermoplastic materials such as polyvinyl, polystyrene, and polyethylene and thermosetting materials such as polyesters, epoxies, and silicones that are used with fillers, stabilizers, pigments, and other components to form plastics.

Resin is plastic. Plastic is not necessarily resin.

JunkyOrk wrote:I don't mind the transition to much, as there's a fair number of metal models I want for conversions but don't enjoy working with the metal to much. Also being a bit of a consumer whore I will easily keep buying GW products...just not strictly from GW direct.

I agree completely. Im looking forward to the easier to work with aspect. Hell, it might even get me to expand my Eldar past just a guardian squad and a wraithlord.

As far as the price increase...I dont collect big armies, so its not really going to matter much to me.