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DaNewBoy wrote:Some models have weapons that are habitually pointed at nothing, example, Ghazy. His barrels are pointed at the ground.

Which doesn't matter, because Ghaz is not a vehicle...

It's only vehicles that draw LOS along the barrel.

Facing only matters for vehicles and walkers.

Infantry, Jump Infantry, Bikes, Jet Bikes, Monstrous Creatures, whatever.. can shoot 360.

Pintle mounted stormbolters/heavy stubbers have free range of motion. They are analogous to the M240B I shoot on top of HUMVEES. Unless you are directly above me, I can kill you!!

The flyers on that list shouldn't have moving weapon mounts at all, too many moving parts for airplanes. You aim by pointing the nose at the enemy and pulling the trigger. That's mostly how machine guns on planes worked for a really long time, its still how the A10 works, and I think it makes more sense.

But, I find myself walking away from the topic. Use common sense when measuring LOS and arc of fire and nobody will have any problems.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:Pintle mounted stormbolters/heavy stubbers have free range of motion.

Not quite. They generally have a 360 degree pivot horizontally, but vertically the rules only give them 45 degrees.

SO.... the vendettal facing 100% to the right (in the picture below) pointing at the tank in the center of the table.... could only shoot one lascannon at the tank in the middle of the table....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/230881-rules%20Q.html

Not all 3 because it isn't turret mounted?

It can fire as many guns as it can physically point at the target (with the usual restrictions based on distance moved, obviously).

Cottonjaw wrote:Facing only matters for vehicles and walkers.

Infantry, Jump Infantry, Bikes, Jet Bikes, Monstrous Creatures, whatever.. can shoot 360.

Not any where near true, per the rules.

Generally that is how it is played, but models(non-vehicle, and non-immobilized Walkers) are supposed to be turned in the shooting phase to face their targets. Technically infantry have a far more limited scope in the LOS arena.

insaniak wrote:It can fire as many guns as it can physically point at the target (with the usual restrictions based on distance moved, obviously).

so if i take a laser pointer and aim it along the barrel... if it doesn't hit the tank... it can't fire...

Kommissar Kel wrote:Not any where near true, per the rules.

Generally that is how it is played, but models(non-vehicle, and non-immobilized Walkers) are supposed to be turned in the shooting phase to face their targets. Technically infantry have a far more limited scope in the LOS arena.

Cite a section or page number on this. I'm pretty sure you're making this up, or confusing this with another game system.

frgsinwntr wrote:

insaniak wrote:It can fire as many guns as it can physically point at the target (with the usual restrictions based on distance moved, obviously).

so if i take a laser pointer and aim it along the barrel... if it doesn't hit the tank... it can't fire...

Pretty much wrong. On infantry, aiming along the barrel doesn't matter. If your model has LOS to the target, it can shoot. On vehicles, it is still wrong because pintle mounted are glued in place so they could be facing a totally different direction; sponsons have no vertical pan; and hull mounted weapons are literally stuck in place but have an implied arc of fire. This really only holds true to turret mounted weapons, even then it is flaky.

-cgmckenzie

frgsinwntr wrote:

insaniak wrote:It can fire as many guns as it can physically point at the target (with the usual restrictions based on distance moved, obviously).

so if i take a laser pointer and aim it along the barrel... if it doesn't hit the tank... it can't fire...

You take the laser pointer or ruler and draw LOS from each weapons mount along the barrel (or where the barrel would be if it wasn't glued in place). I will call this line from mount to barrel pointing towards the intended target as the "gun-target line." As long as the "gun target line" does not pass through LOS blocking terrain or over another portion of that firing vehicle (i.e. the front hull) that would prevent the weapon from shooting, that weapon can be fired in the shooting phase.

Xarian wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:Not any where near true, per the rules.

Generally that is how it is played, but models(non-vehicle, and non-immobilized Walkers) are supposed to be turned in the shooting phase to face their targets. Technically infantry have a far more limited scope in the LOS arena.

Cite a section or page number on this. I'm pretty sure you're making this up, or confusing this with another game system.

Kel is correct on this. Infantry must turn an dface; it is what allows walkers to shoot things initially behind them in the shooting phase - they can turn to fire, the same as infantry

Xarian wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:Not any where near true, per the rules.

Generally that is how it is played, but models(non-vehicle, and non-immobilized Walkers) are supposed to be turned in the shooting phase to face their targets. Technically infantry have a far more limited scope in the LOS arena.

Cite a section or page number on this. I'm pretty sure you're making this up, or confusing this with another game system.

Several sections and pages.

Page 11, Turning and facing: this section informs you that you may turn and face in any direction both during movement and in the Shooting phase(non-walker vehicles are specifically prohibited from the shooting rotation).

page 16, Check line of sight and pick a target, second paragraph of second column: "Line of sight must be traced from the eyes of the firing model to any part of the body of at least one of the models in the target unit"

The eyes cannot trace LOS through the back of the skull, nor through much of the sides.

Most RAP I have seen(or been party to) does not involve actually physically turning any models other than Vehicles(including walkers) since the rules still allow for an effective 360* fire arc(free turns means you can still turn to bring literally any target within the 360* into LOS, so why bother with the actual turning of the models?)

I don't like it when people make big deals about turning my models. The is one of TFG at my club who insists on making things turn to shoot. Needless to say, he has difficulty finding matches on a weekly basis.

-cgmckenzie