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the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.


The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?

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Pragmatic Collabirator






The East Coast of the USA

Varrick wrote: Seeing as as started above Khorne hates the weak, tricksters, schemers, and would never elevate a non warrior. Hitler was at best a courier or a runner or something; low combat doubt he ever killed someone.

HHitler was not a warrior, he WAS a trickster, a schemer, a politician and a coward. Khorne would never even give him the time of day.


Actually, what most people don't know about Hitler is that he WAS a warrior. He was a WWI veteran. He had amazingly good luck in the trenches. There was one time when he was eating lunch in a particular trench, and he heard a voice saying to him "get up and go over there". So he got up, left the trench, and not three minutes after he was gone, the trench was blasted apart by an artillery shell. I also remember reading that on the first day that his regiment, the List Regiment, were deployed at the front, Hitler was one of the few survivors of a bad shelling that blew apart most of his platoon.

Hitler was also a talented and effective soldier. He reveled in warfare and bloodshed. While other men in the trenches expressed a desire to return to their homes and families, Hitler absolutely loved the frontlines. He eventually became a message runner, which, contrary to what you appear to think, was an incredibly dangerous job. Hitler enjoyed putting himself in danger. He would ask other message runners to give him their messages so that he could deliver them, and they were more than happy to do it.

There are stories claiming that Hitler captured something like 17 prisoners all at once on one occasion, while in the process of running a message along the frontlines. He was a very good shot as well, and while I doubt he ever bothered to take a killcount, he certainly would have shed blood in defense of his trench. He was delighted by the bloodshed and violence all around him, and he was one of few German NCO's to receive an Iron Cross 1st Class (which some think he did not entirely deserve) as well as an Iron Cross 2nd Class. I think the 2nd Class Iron Cross was for rescuing a wounded officer caught in no-man's land (no mean feat) and the 1st Class Iron Cross was for delivering a very important message through dangerous terrain. (Which in and of itself would not entitle him to an Iron Cross. Maybe that was the same incident as the 17 prisoners thing, I'm not sure.)

Anyway. My point is that Hitler was actually a very good soldier. He was also violent, bloodthirsty, insanely charismatic and dangerous on a colossal scale. When he spoke in public, he would whip himself up into a mad frenzy. It's said that he would sometimes lose as much as five pounds a night by getting so animated during his speeches. To me, that sounds like someone driven violently mad by a love of warfare and bloodshed. So, would Khorne look down with pleasure on Hitler?

Maybe. After all, Hitler was regarded as a good soldier by his commanding officers. He was a schemer (though his propaganda ministers did a lot of the scheming for him...), but he slaughtered millions and soaked the fields of Europe with the blood of innocents. Sounds pretty Khornate to me.

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How about Cortez?

Not a nice fella.

Caligula is more Slaaneshi...

Hmm

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When I read about doombreed I instantly thought Hitler.

 
   
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The East Coast of the USA

And what we all seem to be forgetting is that Genghis Khan is already represented by not one but TWO GW characters. Kor'sarro Khan (Even has Khan in the name... It's like GW pulled another "Sly Marbo" on us...), and the Rough Rider robo-horse guy. (Mogul Kamir, I think.) Although robo-horse guy is probably also supposed to represent Atilla the Hun...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/13 06:32:48


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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord







hmm, true but if hes already represented by two, why not one more?

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Brother Captain Andrecus wrote:And what we all seem to be forgetting is that Genghis Khan is already represented by not one but TWO GW characters. Kor'sarro Khan (Even has Khan in the name... It's like GW pulled another "Sly Marbo" on us...), and the Rough Rider robo-horse guy. (Mogul Kamir, I think.) Although robo-horse guy is probably also supposed to represent Atilla the Hun...


Ever hear of Jaghatai Khan, Primarch of the White Scars?

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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord







ok one more after that

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Varrick wrote: Hitler was at best a courier or a runner or something; low combat doubt he ever killed someone.


This sentence here made my historical brain hurt. Hitler was a decorated combat veteran during ww1. Those iron crosses he wore weren't for show.

(Not saying he was a good guy in any way, just stating historical facts)

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Ironsight wrote:
Brother Captain Andrecus wrote:And what we all seem to be forgetting is that Genghis Khan is already represented by not one but TWO GW characters. Kor'sarro Khan (Even has Khan in the name... It's like GW pulled another "Sly Marbo" on us...), and the Rough Rider robo-horse guy. (Mogul Kamir, I think.) Although robo-horse guy is probably also supposed to represent Atilla the Hun...


Ever hear of Jaghatai Khan, Primarch of the White Scars?


Yes, actually. But I had assumed that he represented Kublai Khan, who turned his grandfather's conquests into a viable empire. Jaghatai always struck me as more of a founder/developer type, whereas Kor'sarro is unarguably all warrior/conquest. I realize that it might make more sense chronologically if Jaghatai was Temujin and Kor'sarro was Kublai, but I always thought of the Primarch as the one who built up and transformed the chapter from a bunch of raw barbarians into a unified and effective fighting force, which is what Kublai did for the Mongolian empire. I guess Jaghatai and Kor'sarro could BOTH represent Temujin. But then there'd be THREE Genghis Khan style characters...

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Vulpes89 wrote:
MountainSquid wrote:
Vulpes89 wrote:
i dont know who Temujin is but Hannibal and Alexander the great never commited any genocides.



Alexander the Great was a murderous Thug who slaughtered his way across across Asia. Just because he was semi-Hellenized people think of him as being a civilized, cultured person. He wasn't.


he allowed every conquered territory to rule itself, all they had to do was pay taxes, change the name of the city and allow his troops to move in and out. he was probably one, if not thee kindest conquers in the history of warfare (hence the Great, title). if you think he slaughtered his way across Asia, you must think every military leader ever was an uncultured, murderous Thug.


You got remember its the victor who write history so his scribes would of made him out to be a saint not some form of barbaric warlord like everyone else.

As for this discussion I would be more inclined to say, I recon they just wrote his back ground without thinking of some warlord of our history there is still another 28,000 years will the creat crusade and Horus and 32,000 years till present 40k I mean humans have been around for around 8,000 years tops so far if that thinking the pyramids are about 4-5 thousand years old... And look at everything that has happened!
   
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord







Im pretty sure that Doombreed is actually the dudes name, i mean all the other daemon princes kept their old names???

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Monster Rain wrote:I always assumed it was Temujin, Hannibal or Alexander the Great.


Out of these Temujin seems the most likely. Macharius and Alexander the Great are far too similiar for the latter to have been a Khornate Deamon Prine. Not enough bloodthirsty-ish-ness there.
Hannibal is a maybe, Khorne usually frowns on defeat.

I'd place my bets on him being someone from the Steppes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doombreed was certainly not Hitler at any rate. Besides, everyone knows that Hitler was innocent, the whole dickery of the Holocuast and WWII was the Changeling's idea of gaks and giggles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/13 08:26:10


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Charisma is not a trait of Khorne...

"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD. SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!"

Not exactly the most endearing phrase is it?

He is either from a future conflict or is Ghenghis Khan.

   
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The fact that Khorne is all about martial prowess, Genghis Khan fits better than Hitler, simply because the latter was more of a political figurehead than a genocidal warlord at the time that he made his name. Genghis really did accomplish amazing things, even if those things were literally bathed in the blood of millions, but I digress, it was just another one of those things that GW never meant to answer, but if it came down to it, making Hitler into a almighty badass Daemon Prince wouldn't exactly be a great move.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/06/13 11:53:31


 
   
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Imagination land

Yeah Hitler would be a very bad choice for GW to make into a daemon character. I reckon it would either be:

Genghis Khan
Vlad the Impaler
or The Scourge of god himself, Attila the Hun
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Any of those Warlords, Alexander the Great doesn't have the same image, Hitler and Stalin didn't become infamous for being warriors. That said, there were many others, these few are just the most well known. I vote for Genghis Khan, just seems to be the most likely if they were apparently raised in the 15th century.
   
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Imagination land

That Lord Solar bloke is Alexander the bleeding deadly

Yeah suppose it could even be a simple warrior, Miyamoto Musashi was pretty skilled. Doubt it was him though
   
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I think people are putting too much stock in the whole genocide part. Remember, eliminating an entire enemy tribe is still technically genocide: "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group".


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Platuan4th wrote:I think people are putting too much stock in the whole genocide part. Remember, eliminating an entire enemy tribe is still technically genocide: "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group".


That's why i thought it could more or less be anyone...
Well not anyone but a lot of people...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/13 12:43:31


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We can certainly rule out Hitler. He was a soldier but not an exceptional one. He was a politician more than a soldier. While he may have killed during his time in the trenches his personal kill count would have been very low compared to other historical leaders.

It is unlikely to be anyone recent or in the immediate future. Our style of war seperates leaders and soldiers. Tacticians don't fight and good warriors rarely lead large numbers of soldiers. Doombreed would need to have not only been skilled tactician but would also have to lead from the front.




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Wait! I got one!

What about Vlad the Impaler?
He would take people who were still alive, and impale them.
He was also found of eating the flesh of children, as he invited the childrens parents to dine.

Give he didn't cause a massive genocide, he abosultly reveled in war, torture, and bloodshed.

Just another possiblity...

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The Crusader Of 42 wrote:I would go with Stalin, more ruthless, and violent than Hilter.

Just fits with Khrone more


My thoughts also. Or general Franco, Mao and some of the more bloody Japanese rulers could be contenders.
   
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Shady Pigeon wrote:
purplefood wrote:it could just as easily be any other leader in a time of war.


This is the problem - the description could apply to dozens of people. The one I've heard most put forward is Ghengis Khan. Appeals a bit more to me from the point of view that Khan was a warrior himself, rather than a political leader (though again, I don't think the description makes any reference to Doombreed's previous form actually doing the killing him/herself - rather being 'responsible' for it).



hitler was a soilder himself in WW1
kind of, he was a runner for the 16th Bavarian Reserve Regiment and was wounded few times and had awards for bravery.
so he could be classed as a 'warrior'

 
   
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Considering that Doombreed was one of Khorne's first servants and that Khorne awoke fully during the Middle Ages, I'd say that it points to either Temujin or Moctezuma. The Aztecs were pretty into the whole blood sacrifice thing and skulls feature prominently in their religion. Now that I think about it, Moctezuma the First would seem more likely than GK, and I've always thought Genghis when I read the fluff.

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Confused

Another point about Hitler-why would Doombreed single out 1 religion in particular? Remember, Khorne cares not wher the blood flows from, only that it does.

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TrollPie wrote:Another point about Hitler-why would Doombreed single out 1 religion in particular?


Hitler didn't single out a single religion. He also attempted to exterminate Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Polish, Romani, the anti-Nazi Confessing Church, and a large variety of others.

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Confused

Platuan4th wrote:
TrollPie wrote:Another point about Hitler-why would Doombreed single out 1 religion in particular?


Hitler didn't single out a single religion. He also attempted to exterminate Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Polish, Romani, the anti-Nazi Confessing Church, and a large variety of others.


True, but that's still most religions and sects of Christianity that he hasn't touched-or maybe he was just playing on people's existing hatred? Khorne can't control people who don't serve him-that's what Tzeentch is for.

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I like to think he was Genghis Khan prior to becoming Doombreed. It just sort of fits, in my mind. But frankly, unless GW outright say 'IT WAS THIS PERSON' (or give very obvious hints), we'll never really figure it out.

Definitely don't think it was hitler, though. Not enough war face, too much inferior moustache.

 
   
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george bush o.o easily manipulated, hasnt got a clue, stubborn and "god" chose him to be in office

even korne can be manipulative at times :3

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