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then lock the thing into combat. at least the cannons won't be wounding it on a 2+. but nothing is made to defeat everything, that would make the choice too easy and there are a lot of things that can take out a cannon. well, Flyers mainly.

So, anyway...the issue is: can WS0 attack. A 6 is always a hit, yes, but can WS0 actually make attacks? I heard someone claim that no, it cannot. Can anyone back this up, or refute it?

...might actually make MoN sort of good.

The only rule is that they have no defence and are hit automatically - not that they cannot attack.

You are told 6s always hit, so 6s always hit.

yes but the rule book also states that someone with a 0 stat can not perform that action, someone with a BS 0 cant shoot even if they have a bow, shortbow, crossbow, repeater crossbow, and a magic weapon that says they can use it like a bolt thrower. they have a BS0 so nothing lets them shoot something that requires a BS. so under the same rules WS0 cant attack because that requires a WS roll which they are not allowed to perform.

or in other words

GW defined exaclty what happens when the target has WS0, but did not define what happens when attacking with WS 0. they did define that someone with a 0 stat can not perform that action, but also said that a 6 always hits in HtH. my position is that WS0 means they can not even swing the sword (just like BS0 cant even try to shoot) so there for can not hit on a 6.

this my position, nos you have a different one. until GW makes an "official" faq we meeting on the battlefield would be rolling the d6 to see whose rule applies for the game.

Can we get a quote of this ruling? That's what I want, man. Proof.

Warpsolution wrote:Can we get a quote of this ruling? That's what I want, man. Proof.

that would be the problem is that there isnt.

Um...huh? Okay, here's what I want:

Can you offer me a quote that says a 0 in a stat means that the model is incapable of taking this action? 'Cause if not, I'd say that this claim is just speculation. If you can, the argument's over.

So, to reiterate. If there's a rule that specifically says WS0 can't attack, thread solved. If not, thread solved.

Check pg 4. It specifically states what happens when defending with WS 0, but not attacking (albeit in a roundabout way).

Later in the book it says natural 6's will always hit.

Those are the two sticking points.

Mon ws to a minimum of 1 its in the army book (well mine atleast) adn in the faq if i remember correctly.

So yea mon sucks too pricey.

Is it page 4? i thought it was further in.

nosferatu1001 wrote:SonsofOdin - that is NOT the text in the v1.4 FAQ available from here:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1780264a_FAQ_WarriorsofChaos_V1_4.pdf

cowpow16 - seriously, previous page. There is no "to a minimum of 1" text for MoN. There just isnt. Stop claiming there is.

cowpow16 wrote:Mon ws to a minimum of 1 its in the army book (well mine atleast) adn in the faq if i remember correctly.

So yea mon sucks too pricey.

Is it page 4? i thought it was further in.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1780264a_FAQ_WarriorsofChaos_V1_4.pdf

ERRATA
Page 110 – The Mark of Nurgle
Change the second paragraph to “A model with the Mark of
Nurgle is difficult to target. Ranged attacks that target him are
at -1 To Hit. Models that target him in close combat are at -1
WS.”

The second paragraph it refers to in the army book contained the 'minimum of 1' restriction, but that has been removed in this revision of that paragraph.

The Errata isn't like the FAQ, in that the FAQ is optional (but widely accepted); the Errata lists official changes to cockups in the army book.

Ok so you can go to ws 0 then.

So then if you fail fear gainst MoN you would be ws 0 and then only hit on 6s?

Yep, you would only hit on 6s as you know that a roll of a 6 always succeeds

If anyones still unsure, may I suggest that they email/call Games-Workshop HQ? It'd solve any problems, and you never know, they may update the FAQ because of it.

Still I dont think I would complain too much seeing as all your attacks hit automatically that is a win.

Guardian_Phoenix wrote:If anyones still unsure, may I suggest that they email/call Games-Workshop HQ? It'd solve any problems, and you never know, they may update the FAQ because of it.

Don't even think about it.

the GW lines are notoriously unreliable for getting a rules question answered. the saying is "ask a GW rep a question 3 times and he shall give you 3 answers, all of which are contradictory" and it is completely true.

the people who answer the phone calls are NOT rules experts, they are customer service personell. if you have a screwed up model or a misplaced order they can help you, but as for rules knowledge and interpertation its a Crap-shoot. you MIGHT get someone who knows, but you also might not and, with no way to tell the difference, the Authority of the ruling has nothing to stand on.

Agreed best chance is a cool gw store manager that knows the games and loves playing the game.

Even then, the ruling will only be good in that location. Don't use it anywhere else as the people you will be encountering don't have anything other then your word on the matter.

cowpow16 wrote:Still I dont think I would complain too much seeing as all your attacks hit automatically that is a win.

No, they wouldnt. When ATTACKING your enemy would be WS1, as MoN only works when the enemy attacks *you*

Sorry iv been half dead today :( I do apologize for that.

so again nos, i say that when you are WS0 you cant perform that action per P4.

p4 says "Some creatures have been given a value of '0' (often shown as a dash '-') for certain characteristics, which means that they have no ability whatsoever in that skill. This usually applies to creatures unable to use missle weapons, so they have BS0 or BS-, but it might equally well apply to other characteristics too."

as the rule says you are unable to use your weapon, if you cant use your weapon (which the BRB specifically says everyone always has a hand weapon at all times) you cant swing to get the automatic 6 to hit.

so we are back the golden rule for rules disputes rolling a d6 on a 4+.

...Lixulana, that's the quote I was asking for. That one. Right there.

So, the thing is, it says "this usually applies to creatures unable to use missile weapons", which doesn't mean "BS0 means you can't use missile weapons", but instead "being unable to use missile weapons means you're BS0". Not a big difference, but it's there, grammatically.

If this passage were just a tiny bit more clear, I'd agree with you that a 0 means you can't attempt the action. But it's pretty vague. As it stands, I'd still say that you're technically allowed to make the attack, since no where in that passage does it explicitly state otherwise.
Granted, it's very by-the-books-for-their-own-sake for my taste, but then again, so is this whole Mark of Nurgle gimmick.

lixulana wrote:so again nos, i say that when you are WS0 you cant perform that action per P4.

p4 says "Some creatures have been given a value of '0' (often shown as a dash '-') for certain characteristics, which means that they have no ability whatsoever in that skill. This usually applies to creatures unable to use missle weapons, so they have BS0 or BS-, but it might equally well apply to other characteristics too."

as the rule says you are unable to use your weapon, if you cant use your weapon (which the BRB specifically says everyone always has a hand weapon at all times) you cant swing to get the automatic 6 to hit.

so we are back the golden rule for rules disputes rolling a d6 on a 4+.

I can't find an instance of "D6 on a 4+" for rules disputes. It's all settled now with the player who's turn it is chooses. Do you have a page for that golden rule (I know where it's at in 7th edition).

Move of Zero prevents you from moving. BS of 0 prevents you from shooting. Does WS zero prevent you from Attacking?
IMO Attacks of 0 would prevent you from attacking. WS of 0 would prevent you from hitting; except for that extra always hit on 6 rule. I think it's a stretch to say that WS-0 also means Attacks ZERO.

-Matt

I think the logic is "if your Weapon Skill is 0, you cannot attempt to hit", which I'd agree with if the book had worded it just a touch differently.
But as I've said, it doesn't say that, so I'd say you're allowed to attack, and a 6 will hit.