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nomotog wrote:First rule of story telling: Nothing is impossible.

Second rule of story telling: Saying that something is impossible makes it more likely to happen.

Third rule of story telling: When the background says explicitly that their bones are inscribed with hexagrammic wards that are the complete anathema to chaos, then they cannot fall to chaos.

ph34r wrote:

nomotog wrote:First rule of story telling: Nothing is impossible.

Second rule of story telling: Saying that something is impossible makes it more likely to happen.

Third rule of story telling: When the background says explicitly that their bones are inscribed with hexagrammic wards that are the complete anathema to chaos, then they cannot fall to chaos.

What fluff says they have the wards inscribed on their bones? Couldn't an apothecary (say Fabius the Fabulous) grind them off?
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If the Purifiers are even more uncorruptable than regular Grey Knights, then the basic Grey Knights cannot be completely unccoruptable. If I have one kilogram of pure iron, you cannot find another kilogram of matter that is more iron by part.

What about the sword that Crowe uses? I didn't quite understand what Ward ment when he wrote Crowe in the codex. Did they give the sword to him because they had faith in that he won't be corupted or the fact that they didn't wanted it to get in the wrong hands? If it is because he can't be corupted, then does that mean if another Grey knight had the sword, they would have a high chance of turning to chaos? Also, wouldn't it be possible for infomation on Chaos Grey Knight be destroyed or locked away in a Vault because they didn't want others to know?

Lets just lay this to rest. GK can NOT, repeat NOT be corrupted. Their specialty is to fight Chaos, and that is all they do. If you send IG regiments to a Chaos infested world, some, of not most, will turn. If you send GK, NONE will turn to Chaos. That is how they work. If they even had the slightest chance to turn to Chaos, they would not exist.

forruner_mercy wrote:Lets just lay this to rest. GK can NOT, repeat NOT be corrupted. Their specialty is to fight Chaos, and that is all they do. If you send IG regiments to a Chaos infested world, some, of not most, will turn. If you send GK, NONE will turn to Chaos. That is how they work. If they even had the slightest chance to turn to Chaos, they would not exist.

Did you even bother to read the preceding posts? Repeating the same tired dogma adds nothing to the conversation.

I'd say it's possible, but unlikely. It would require alot of hard work and planning from Tzeentch, and maybe some eye removal.

If they can't be corrupted, then a certain heretical moron has made it extremely hard to discern an answer. They can't be corrupted, and then then Crowe comes along, the least corruptible of them all. Wait, if they can't be corrupted at all, why is he at a different level of incorruptibility?

Surely if the Grey Knights were incorruptible, their records wouldn't be completely secret. The Imperium says they are incorruptible. They also worship a man who tried to destroy religion.

Surely Chaos demons cant be persuaded to join the imperium, right? they are just demons to the bone, and are completely made of demon stuff, doesnt mean they cant go to the imperium, right?

/sarcasm


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i want kharne, and abaddon in my SM army, they are SM technically right? whats to keep them from going back to the imperium, theres nothing thats guarenteed they wont!

Well, years ago I would have been firmly on the "nope, never" side as well, but with the new Codex ...

Obviously they can be corrupted if they need to undergo special rituals requiring "virgin blood" to prevent it. What do you think would have happened to the GK if there were no SoB to slaughter on that planet?

And no, I don't like it either. But it appears to be the new truth.*

(*: Though one could say it isn't actually new - it is very easy to just regard this not as a retcon but as an expansion of the old fluff: "Grey Knights are incorruptible ... because they have mastered the technique of warding themselves with the blood of innocents.")

There is debate whether that corruption would have been of a spiritual nature, or of the "holy crap my face is melting and my rectum grew teeth" variety.

And one of the first lines in the Grey Knights codex describes them as "utterly incorruptible". I'd say that's pretty solid. The whole "nothing is impossible" crowd is grasping at straws.

Omegus wrote:There is debate whether that corruption would have been of a spiritual nature, or of the "holy crap my face is melting and my rectum grew teeth" variety.

This would be of interest for me as well, given that the very same piece of fluff also seems to invalidate the "only a single Sister ever fallen to Chaos" schpiel of the SoB.

Omegus wrote:And one of the first lines in the Grey Knights codex describes them as "utterly incorruptible". I'd say that's pretty solid. The whole "nothing is impossible" crowd is grasping at straws.

That was in the same book? Oh boy.

There was an entire Order of sisters that turned to Slaanesh. I think it was in the Daemonifuge graphic novels.

I think it is best to split up the discussion in two questions:

1. Can a GK turn to chaos?

Yes, because
- if not, they wouldn't have to slaughter SoB to annoint them with their virgin blood.
- if not, there would be no need to describe several levels of purity in the codex.

2. Can there be a chaos GK?
No, because the instant the GK would turn to chaos, the wards on his bones would reduce him to ashes.

So this is my explanation why there was no recorded GK ever to turn to chaos and why they are utterly incorruptible. Because they die the instant they go chaos.


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Omegus wrote:There was an entire Order of sisters that turned to Slaanesh. I think it was in the Daemonifuge graphic novels.

Their bodies were corrupted, but not their minds. They molded all their minds into one big mind that resisted chaos. When the Daemonifuge arrived, they gave her all the secrets they learned about Slaanesh before they were stopped by chaos.

He never fell to Chaos, his mind was completely gone for a time as he rampaged in the slave arenas.

Omegus wrote:He never fell to Chaos, his mind was completely gone for a time as he rampaged in the slave arenas.

In my opinion he was serving Khorne at least if not being fallen by committing a little mindless beserking in the arenas. That was the point of collaring him and lowering his defenses. Again this is in my opinion.

Omegus wrote:There was an entire Order of sisters that turned to Slaanesh. I think it was in the Daemonifuge graphic novels.

Aye, I know - an Order Pronatus on Parnis (though you could argue that Sisters Pronatus "don't count" because they're no SoB). But novels aren't hard canon and GW doesn't really care about what ideas they introduce, describing them as "interpretations" and only adopting stuff they like whilst disregarding the rest.

Grimmzahn wrote:No, because the instant the GK would turn to chaos, the wards on his bones would reduce him to ashes.

That actually sounds pretty cool.

Grimmzahn wrote:Their bodies were corrupted, but not their minds. They molded all their minds into one big mind that resisted chaos. When the Daemonifuge arrived, they gave her all the secrets they learned about Slaanesh before they were stopped by chaos.

There was also a small army of Chaos Sisters that came through a warp portal to attack Ephrael and her allies together with the Keeper of Secrets.

Though in a way, an explanation might be that these were just bodies serving as daemonhosts, with the souls still trapped in the Screaming Cage? Either way, the novel did tell of "Sister fighting Sister" etc, so I don't think this cop-out would work. I guess the Screaming Cage are just the ones who stayed pure but lost the battle to the ones who had fallen, meaning the Order was essentially split in half by the Greater Daemon they had unleashed. Or was it that the Screaming Cage was made up of the souls of the Sisters Militant sent to investigate Parnis (Ephrael's first visit), whereas all or most of the resident Sisters Pronatus had fallen to Chaos? The book was a little vague on who fought who.

I'm a bit on the fence. On one hand, the idea of Chaos Sisters is pretty cool, but on the other this kind of "inflation" just takes away from the unique awesomeness of Miriael Sabathiel. I wonder if the new Codex will retcon the 3E book or reinforce it. Given the GK 'dex, anything seems to be possible these days.

It was a bit weird.

they cannot be corruped because they want for nothing except the destruction of deamons.

No, because the instant the GK would turn to chaos, the wards on his bones would reduce him to ashes. -Grimzah

Even though i am still completely and 100% in the NO CHAOS GK camp,but arent most of the thousand sons just their souls/ash trapped inside their armour with a few "human" sorcerers that lead them?

dajobe wrote:No, because the instant the GK would turn to chaos, the wards on his bones would reduce him to ashes. -Grimzah

Even though i am still completely and 100% in the NO CHAOS GK camp,but arent most of the thousand sons just their souls/ash trapped inside their armour with a few "human" sorcerers that lead them?

Never thought of it that way

Lynata wrote:Or was it that the Screaming Cage was made up of the souls of the Sisters Militant sent to investigate Parnis (Ephrael's first visit), whereas all or most of the resident Sisters Pronatus had fallen to Chaos? The book was a little vague on who fought who.

I guess that makes sense, thanks for summing it up. I'll take a glance at the book again later.

Omegus wrote:
And one of the first lines in the Grey Knights codex describes them as "utterly incorruptible". I'd say that's pretty solid. The whole "nothing is impossible" crowd is grasping at straws.

It also says they all fear being the first to do so. Not much reason to fear the impossible.

Ok, ive read over this thread, and my answer to the question is that 'No, grey knights cannot turn to chaos, because of two reasons: A. They are warded, indoctrined and otherwise made impervious to chaos's corrupting influence B. 'IF' it were made possible (by some feared beast of destruction whom we fear due to GW not firing him the moment SM 5Th edition was released, and now the dreadknight...) then as previously mentioned the wards tattoo'd on a grey knights skin and marked into his bones would burn him to ashes'

Also mentioned in this thread is about Hammer of Daemons novel where Alaric is collared, i just wanna clear up the idea of what it did. Primarily, it was placed on him so his psychic shield would be lowered and thus make him touchable by daemons who couldn't even stand next to him without recoiling, aswell as making him vulnerable to possession.
Secondly, it cut off his ability to use psychic powers in any offensive form making him easier to handle.
Also, Alaric never turned to chaos, he pulled the daemon into his mind further, using tzeentch's Pradaox against itself, confusing the daemon razezael (sp) long enough for him to use the collars effects against itself (With the collar on, alarics mind was totally vulnerable, even to himself) fragmenting his own mind. While this also meant he was possessed for a while, it also gave Alaric enough time to force the daemon out.

Hey, one of their grandmasters is trouncing round the warp falcon punching greater daemons and the like. I doubt they are capable of falling to chaos.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Hey, one of their grandmaster is trouncing round the warp falcon punching greater daemons and the like. I doubt they are capable of falling to chaos.

Yeah, but that's Mat Ward fluff.

I go out of my way to avoid adopting the silly convention of spelling his name with just one 't'. I don't know if he's trying to be cool, or what, but I find it's a lot more amusing to simply call him Matthew. It's what you would call a child, which syncs perfectly with the level of his writing. "ZOMG my gray nite GM totally rox0rz demonz!"

dajobe wrote:No, because the instant the GK would turn to chaos, the wards on his bones would reduce him to ashes. -Grimzah

Even though i am still completely and 100% in the NO CHAOS GK camp,but arent most of the thousand sons just their souls/ash trapped inside their armour with a few "human" sorcerers that lead them?

Yeah but they are animated by sorcery.

Wait, isn't it MatT Ward? Always thought it WAS two Ts. Guess he is pretty cool guy then.

Nope just checked the almighty, infallible repository of knowledge: Wikipedia. It's Matt.

Apparently, he started writing it with a single "t" in some White Dwarf articles, so people picked it up. On the stuff he writes, he's credited as "Matthew".